Billionaires the original welfare queens.
What the UAW is doing here is fighting for all workers. This sets precedents that ripple across all industries. What formed the UAW back in 1937 took some balls, and so does this.
It’s not communism to fight for dignity and a living wage. We’re practically fighting for some more table scraps, but the rich are acting like we’re threatening social fabric.
Go and get it Shawn, this is exactly what we all need right now. Support the UAW.
In the last 20 years, we’ve seen the most rapid rise in productivity since the industrial revolution, and just like in the wake of the industrial revolution, there was massive worker exploitation that led to reforms and eventually unionization that ushered in a golden age of labor in America where workers were fairly compensated for the work they provided, so much so that it was easy for a salaryman to support a nuclear family on his single paycheck.
Since then, the business owner class has been working hard to dismantle unions while refusing to pay their fair share of the massive profit windfalls to the bottom rung workers. We are long overdue for sweeping multi-industry unionization effort. Only then will we start seeing something more than just table scraps.
Fighting for dignity actually is literally communism. It’s capitalist propaganda that has you convinced otherwise.
You don’t seem to understand that your distinction between the theory of communism, and communism as practiced, are both equally valid and accepted uses of the word. One is a theory, one created reeducation camps and killed millions of their own people. It is not capitalism that convinced me of this.
Your comment is fair, but please allow me to deflect for a moment with a few questions:
The nazis called themselves national socialists, do you believe they were socialists?
The north korean government has called their country a democratic republic, do you believe that?
I’m guessing you answered no to both. If that’s the case, why do you believe the ussr and the ccp when they say they were/are practicing communism?
Additionally, who benefits more than capital if you believe socialism and communism equal authoritarianism?
If the only way to defend communism is by claiming that no country has ever done communism correctly, then that’s a problem. You can’t point to a single successful communist country because there aren’t any.
China became far more successful since it abandoned communism for its own flavor of capitalism. Private ownership in China has led to a massive improvement in quality of life for most Chinese residents, and more opportunities for success than ever before.
Meanwhile, most complaints about capitalism have almost nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with laws and regulations or human greed (which is the worst part of any system).
That’s not what I said. Try again.
Yeah, point to all the communist countries that failed with the US was relentlessly fucking with them despite the fact that “Communism will naturally fail if left to its own devices”
Pointing out greed as a problem of capitalism is valid when money is power and all decision making is based around profit.
If you guys understood marketing, you’d stop insisting on your version of the word being the one people should embrace. Socialism sells way better than communism even though it still gets people as riled up as Sen Kennedy reading “not all boys are blue” while pretending that it’s legally mandated to be given to white Christian boys at birth. 9/10 you guys rail against European social democracy, regardless of the fact that it would be a far easier reach for the US and would dramatically improve the lives of workers.
Always play offense. Useful tactic, but easily avoided. Bye!
I wasn’t playing a game, though. I was speaking in all earnestness. Peace.
Communism provides a theoretical framework to advocate for those things, but it is not the same as doing those things. I think the distinction is important because it allows you to have a plurality or support
That’s like saying physics only provides a framework for experiment.
I mean, I can see a utopian vision of Communism where dignity is forefront, but I’ve also seen where it’s dystopian. Correct me if I’m wrong but the basis is to each according to their need and from each based on their abilities. Dignity isn’t mentioned, but the happiness and contentment of all is the goal so I suppose it’s inferred but not specified.
Either way, it doesn’t have to be viewed with any kind of social opposition. If we keep following the slippery slope of late game capitalism, who’s to say companies don’t just purchase legislation that re-establishes full on slavery? We have a fucked up oligarch system, and moments like this where workers unite is a good thing in any system. Free market my ass, and this is a moment where arguing for semantics is a side-discussion, for now it’s us against the oligarchs.
I think a better way to describe the essence of communism is an end to dominance hierarchies. Authoritarians often use leftist rhetoric to gain power, which is why so many of them have called themselves socialist or communist, while being the exact opposite of the ideals they claim to support.
You are 100% correct, it is us against the oligarchs. That’s also the entire basis of communist theory, btw. Regardless of terms used though, we are on the same side of this fight, and I am glad that we are.
deleted by creator
Reminder that some unions have merch you can buy to help support their workers during strikes. This one doesn’t, unfortunately. But always check. I have some damn cool looking tshirts for other labor movements (Rail, Starbucks, Truck haulers, etc).
You can sign their petition here:
https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/big-3-ceo-petition-1?source=standwithuspage
I work at the corporate headquarters of a company that provides contract services to industrial plants. Not related to the car industry, but I literally just had a meeting today with some folks from HR to add a way to our central system to track what plants our employees have unionized at. The general tone was “oh crap we have union workers now, how do we not accidentally break the law because we’re quickly seeing more and more of our workforce unionize”
deleted by creator
Fuck yea, love to see militant labor fighting for what they need
Even China knows this. Give the hard working people a better job than mom and dad had and they won’t rebel.
The people who are rolling in their next billion have forgotten what happens when you take that away.
China is about to find out as well, they have something like a 30% new-grad unemployment rate, and Pooh Bear is on a bootstraps kick saying that social protections encourage laziness.
They’re on even thinner ice than the US.
I mean we all know what “didn’t” happen last time students got together in protest. Whatever became of the Hong Kong protest btw?
This is a good question. Last time I brought this up on Lemmy, someone said they were better off under the CCP than British rule. 🤔
They are in the economic industrial boom that already happened to western countries decades ago. The problem is that eventually all booms end
That is just buying into accepting the current model where the rich can have it all at the expense of the poor. The model is the problem not the amount we have to distribute.
Apparently these billionaires vote & elect the folks who want to arm all of these workers you speak of. Sound logic if you ask me
Holy based, I didn’t know there were any unions with a backbone left in America
The UAW has always been pushing for Americans as a whole. Hats off to them.
Yeah, but Fain is the first democratically elected UAW leader (prior leadership was chosen by delegations and was fraught with racketeering and embezzlement) and it shows.
✊
🖖
deleted by creator
I vote for wrecking the rich’s yachts. There’s even a great capitalist reason to do it: the companies that build them might make new sales! Win-win!
When you think about it, at that point at least the rich are spending their money again in order to buy another yacht, actually putting money into the economy.
It’s like trickle down economics, but we gotta shoot some holes in the water tower to make it trickle down.
This is actually an example in The Wealth of Nations; Adam Smith considers whether a hooligan smashing a window is a benefit to society because it creates work for the glazier.
Smith concluded that no, it isn’t a net benefit because the glazier could have made a new window instead.
However, given that megayachts are net negative to society, I’m not sure how he’d view this case.
deleted by creator
When you think about it, at that point at least the rich are spending their money again in order to buy another yacht, actually putting money into the economy.
People who think the rich just have vaults full of money are so fucking ridiculous.
Poor people sit on cash. Poor people hide cash in their house. Almost the entirety of any rich person’s wealth is invested, because rich people generally pay smart people to handle their money.
“We were very wealthy,” says Errol Musk. “We had so much money at times we couldn’t even close our safe.”
With one person holding the money in place, another other would slam the door.
“And then there’d still be all these notes sticking out and we’d sort of pull them out and put them in our pockets.”
You are willfully ignorant.
You’re an idiot if you thinks fucking safe holds any real amount of money, or that one South African semi-rich person counts as any sort of evidence.
Cash depreciates over time. No rich person keeps a ton of cash, because it means they get less rich every day.
Yeah, all those poor folks literally sleeping on cash under their mattresses because they don’t have to spend it immediately on things like, you know… staying alive.
Tell me you don’t actually know any poor people without telling me you don’t actually know any poor people.
Lol. Sure sure. Apparently I’ve been living poor incorrectly by immediately spending my money on things like food, shelter and childcare instead of hoarding it like some kind of Scrooge McDuck wannabe.
You think poor people have money they don’t need to spend, so they just keep it stashed away in a shoebox or something? How out of touch are you?
This is an endemic problem with poor people, actually, because poor people are often conditioned not to “trust” banks.
You’d know that, if you knew them.
You must be right. I’ve never lived in and among poverty. Thank you for explaining my life to me. Is there anything else I didn’t actually experience?
Yeah, cause poor people and low income people are so much more rare to encounter during a day, then a millionaire/billionaire or people in top 5%… /S
Poor people live paycheck to paycheck, 1 disaster away from bankruptcy and absolute poverty. What the actual fuck are you taking about??
Yes, and a big part of that is that rather than get bank accounts, savings accounts, and any sort of money discipline, they fly blind and end up turning to terrible shit like payday loans.
See, one of us has actually worked to help change the spending habits of low-income people and the other person gets their information from memes.
Source- trust me bro!
That’s a pretty cool story you’ve got going on in your head there lol. You’re a fucking 🤡
Thanks for driving my point home about your memes-based-worldview.
But if you want a source, because you can’t Google basic facts, then sure
https://www.gao.gov/blog/more-7-million-u.-s.-households-have-no-bank-account.-why
7 million out of 39 million living in poverty don’t have bank accounts. Lol, that’s your proof for your argument. And that’s not including the working poor. Wow, I don’t know what’s scarier- the fact that you think this is proof that the PoOr aRe CoNdItiOned tO noT uSe bAnKs- If OnlY thEy’D oPen Savinzgs AcCoUnts, or that you think that you “got me” with that stat. Fucking 🤡
Underbanking is a problem, and so is underinvesting. Both are caused by profit motives because investors rather put in pay day loan services instead of grocery stores in historical redlined districts🤷
But sure, blame the habits of poor people.
Almost the entirety of any rich person’s wealth is invested, because rich people generally pay smart people to handle their money.
Damn, maybe poor people should just hire a full-time broker and give them the $20 they can spare this month and let that smart person invest it so they’re not poor anymore 🤓
Being poor in the US is a literal trap. It is intentional. It is exploitation. The lack of financial education isn’t the fault of poor people who grew up going to schools that could barely afford to run, and/or went to school hungry.
And once you’re poor, it can be extremely difficult to escape, bc the system is designed to punish poor ppl. Poor ppl sit on cash bc if it’s in a bank the money they need for food might get taken away bc of some bullshit overdraft fee or similar. I know bc I’ve been poor and know poor ppl.
Poor people aren’t poor because they don’t invest wisely enough. They’re poor bc the system is designed in so many ways to keep it that way.
Also rICh pEoPle dOnT Sit ON tHeiR MoNey ThEY iNvEsT it
Yeah, putting billions of dollars into stocks and letting it sit there is still hoarding wealth. Call it “investing 🤓” or whatever. It’s still hoarding, it’s still immoral and detestable.
You sound like you’re 17 and just started listening to Fox Business for financial advice.
Yeah, putting billions of dollars into stocks and letting it sit there is still hoarding wealth. Call it “investing 🤓” or whatever. It’s still hoarding, it’s still immoral and detestable.
This has no factual basis.
You seem like you think I’m attacking poor people for not having money to invest rather than making fun of people who believe the quoted statement.
This has no factual basis.
Yes it does.
See I used as much logic in that response as u used in ur comment, so my answer is just as valid as yours. But since I used more logic in the comment you’re replying to, my original point still stands. Try again, lil bro.
You seem like you think I’m attacking poor people for not having money to invest rather than making fun of people who believe the quoted statement.
I do not give a flying fuck whether you were making fun of someone or trying to get a billionaire to see ur comment so they’d let u suck their dick, bootlicker. You’re wrong.
Also billionaires can literally just use their stock value as cash, genius.
Why you simp for billionaires bruh. U ain’t gonna become one.
Imagine caring about the opinions of someone who calls you a “bootlicker” for simply understanding how reality works
And again no reasoning given. Yup, certified brain rot.
You’re kidding right?
-
The yachts are probably insured
-
Just because they don’t literally have millions sitting in a checking account doesn’t mean they can’t liquidate some of their investments and get it in short order.
actually putting money into the economy
This person veliev s rich people have millions sitting in checking. This belief is widespread, and is not just misleading, it changes the entire discussion from wealth to money.
-
The argument is sloppy.
The working class makes gains when our work helps us as a class, not when we are forced to serve.
If the wealthy are able to support the creation of wasteful luxuries for their own vanity, then they must be able to support activities that help the working class.
The difference is that the latter may require some encouragement.
My comment was satire. Stop arguing with the wind.
Many comments being posted are intended as satirical, but the actual apologia resembles satire so much that I think the intentional satire is rather creating confusion above all else.
Creating confusion for you maybe. Nobody else took my comment that seriously.
I said “shooting holes in a water tower to make trickle-down economics work” as a reply to someone making an obvious quip. IDK if you’ve just never been around leftist discussions, but joking about how fucked trickle-down economics is isn’t an endorsement of building megayachts that wreck the environment and provide no good to society.
Stop being intentionally obtuse, or just don’t blame others for your inability to read between the lines.
EDIT to add: I also explicitly stated it was satire in response to the only other comment that replied to mine taking it seriously. But even their comment just seemed more like a clarification for anyone else reading, not someone actually taking my comment seriously.
Creating confusion for you maybe. Nobody else took my comment that seriously.
The general view is one I have reached after reading hundreds of threads or more.
So then why reply to my comment with a hostile argument when there was already a thread in reply to mine which cleared up any possible confusion?
You can’t read satire, got confused and replied without spending the time to even read the other reply saying the same shit you said.
And you wanna blame satire for creating confusion.
If u smell shit everywhere you go, check ur own shoe bud.
Better yet, train orcas to attack yachts!
Buddy, youre not gonna believe this…
Gibraltar Orcas: “Way ahead of you there buddy”
Do a new Boston Tea Party except this time we launch barrels of tea at yachts.
I need a couple of their yachts to drag over some sturdy icebergs. Re-enact a much more expensive Titanic.
Thanks to them you’ll be hard pressed to find any sturdy icebergs anymore.
Protecting their yachts was their plan all along!
That’s red hot commie stuff right there. I like it :)
There is nothing communist about that. He’s not advocating abolishing private ownership. Businesses and workers both operate in the free market, which allows workers to advocate for their position in the market.
The free market doesn’t exist in a communist economy. Communism uses a planned economy, so the government strongly regulates both businesses and workers. This eliminates workers’ leverage over employers.
There is nothing communist about that.
Seeking a new economy, based on the challenge that the current one serves the owning class, is the very essence of the communist movement.
He’s not advocating abolishing private ownership.
Billionaires are the owners, and they are being challenged, as well as the system that serves them.
Businesses and workers both operate in the free market, which allows workers to advocate for their position in the market.
No. Markets confer freedom only to those who enter them already having the more advantageous position.
The free market doesn’t exist in a communist economy.
You previously gave an accurate definition of communism. Markets are not specifically or fundamentally rejected by communism, even though many would wish to see their eventual abolition.
Communism uses a planned economy, so the government strongly regulates both businesses and workers.
Communism seeks direct control of the economy by workers.
This eliminates workers’ leverage over employers.
Workers have no leverage over employers, because employers already own everything. Workers have only the power to withhold their labor, though doing so carries great risk.
Isn’t that what they want you to think? Throwing around words like communist and making it seem like a bad thing to share wealth?
Exactly. Unions exist in Liberal and Social Democracies, too. They want to keep us on this Neoliberal path, because it’s so very exploitable. Unions are just a drop of democracy, but for your workplace, or sometimes renting and transit systems.
Image Transcription:
X/Twitter post by user Teddy Ostrow @TeddyOstrow reading ‘“In their economy, workers live paycheck to paycheck while the billionaires buy another yacht… So we’re gonna wreck their economy cuz it only works for the billionaire class,” says @UAW prez Shawn Fain in Detroit.’
Attached is an image of UAW president Shawn Fain speaking passionately at a targeted strike rally against the Detroit Big Three automakers (General Motors, Ford, and Stellantis).
[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜]
I’m happy to see this transcription “service” here on Lemmy. Thank YOU!
Thank you! Hopefully I will one day have most people doing it themselves so I have less to do.
You are my favorite person today.
Thank you!
I like this Shawn. I really do. He’s saying the words and doing the actions. Go Shawn! Go!
The more I hear about this guy, the more I like him.
Why not? Megacorps and billionaires wreck the economy all the time, and exploit it for their favor.
Why not let the poor and worker class wreck it for once.
Set the whole goddamn thing on fire, and throw the rich into it.
Removed by mod
Fucking legend. Hats off to him and the UAW
hell yeah fuck the oligarchy
