I know that GrapheneOS has a lot of security features that make it basically impossible to compromise your phone. And that it has a lot of control over permissions and has some privacy features. But it also has a Google Services compatibility that would allow you to use Google services, which would allow Google to harvest a lot of data from you; much less data, but still some. Now OSes like CalyxOS or Lineage have microG which in addition to giving you the APIs, it uses less battery and has the ability to use Mozilla network location to stop google from getting that data. CalyxOS and Lineage don’t have the crazy hardening modifications that GrapheneOS has, but Android is already crazy secure compared to something like Windows or Linux without a properly configured SELinux or AppArmor. Why have Graphene over Calyx?
GrapheneOS has a lot of security features that make it basically impossible to compromise your phone
This is very dangerous thinking. No software is perfect; there are always ways to get in.
Now, in practice most people aren’t victims of targetted attacks and even devices with dozens of known local privilege escalation and remote code execution exploits won’t ever be attacked but those who will cannot rely on “x is basically impossible to compromise”. It takes layers and maintenance to actually be somewhat secure.
Sandboxed Google play service is actually more secure than MicroG.
it also has a Google Services compatibility that would allow you to use Google services, which would allow Google to harvest a lot of data from you
So does MicroG. Actually that’s kind of the point of both. Google play services exist to provide, well, Google play services like push notification which uses the Google servers. That’s the case with Sandboxed Google play and GrapheneOS.
OSes like CalyxOS or Lineage have microG
Yes. Pre-installed. That’s kind of a problem if you don’t want to use them in a specific profile. Also it’s quite a security issue since it needs signature spoofing to work which is insecure by definition.
has the ability to use Mozilla network location to stop google from getting that data
That alone doesn’t stop Google from getting your location data. Only not giving the your location data does this. On GrapheneOS you do this by… not enabling the location permission for any Google services including the play services.
Also by default GrapheneOS already uses GrapheneOS servers for location data and you can set your own proxy in the location settings
That’s basically everything about it. Yes, battery life is an issue on GrapheneOS with sandboxed Google play service, but well, at least it just has the permissions of a normal app. Not a privileged system app that pretends to be another app to work.
Yeah but those are the issues that I have. The idea is to have a private phone where you don’t have to worry about Google harvesting your data and keeping it forever. But when you have an OS that has all these features and then use the Google services that take all that data, what is the point?
Also it’s quite a security issue since it needs signature spoofing to work which is insecure by definition.
According to the last paragraph here, the spoofing at least in Calyx is limited to only microG. It’s less secure than a sandboxed thing, but I don’t think it’s gonna be that bad.
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That’s why on Android, apps have to request the location permission to have access to Bluetooth, WiFi and cellular networks and their signal strengths. No app has that information unless you explicitly allow it
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But that needs to be built in to it on a hardware level. Sure the cell towers know where you are though
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In this case, faraday bag might be useful
GrapheneOS itself is great, but the GrapheneOS community is toxic. Something to consider. If you want deGoogled Android without the drama, consider CalyxOS.
Honestly, I don’t mind the drama. I just want answers to my specific questions about privacy without people mentioning security all the time. But thanks mate
As you said, proper google services instead of microG. It’s been a bit since I used it, but it wasn’t great back then.
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Sandboxed Google Play provides better security, privacy and usability. Why that is, as well as your question about Calyx vs Graphene, is answered in this Privacy Guides Blogpost.
It says that trusting Mozilla for the location backend is the same as trusting Google. I may be biased or something because I use Mozilla services but that’s just insane to me. Mozilla’s business model is not the same as Google’s. Are there no network based location services for Graphene other tjan Google? GPS location sucks sometimes and I’d like to have a proper alternative if possible.
