- cross-posted to:
- Technology@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- Technology@programming.dev
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Step one: install Linux
Just switch to Linux.
This is like saying “put some salve on the wrists where the shackles are binding you”. For fucks sake just walk away from the abusive computing relationship.
Many years ago, when I was repairing computers for a living, spyware like this was highly frowned upon.
I haven’t touched Windows in a few years, but I’m still somewhat saddened to see how normalized this has become. Why did society stop valuing privacy?
“Just install Li-” Can y’all just shut the fuck up about Linux for five minutes?
But it’s the solution to so many Microsoft “features”
If i ask “how do i change the oil filter on my *insert car model here*” and you answer “get an electric car” i’m gonna think you’re annoying and a bit of an asshole, especially if you keep doing it over and over on every similar question. It’s not a “solution” that interests anyone when they ask that kind of question. Fuck off.
I think if you are paying to have a worse experience with a ICE car, and someone points out you can get a nice electric car for free and you think they are just being an annoying asshole- that’s an issue right there.
Sure, some people need dump trucks for work. If you don’t though I think switching to an EV is sensible.
Ya idk. Trading a combustion car with issues for a free electric car with less issues seems like a win to me.
That’s the real comparison here. You pay for Windows. Linux users don’t pay for Linux.
Look in the mirror my fren. People are just trying to help.
let me think about this one… mmmm, no
No.
Watch as the Linux drones swarm in to drown out people seeking actual answers.
To be fair, removing the entire OS does disable this feature
And easier
The one thing keeping me from going all-in on Linux is the users being insufferable.
You can just use linux. You don’t have to hang out with them.
You’re seeing insufferable people who also happen to use Linux, as insufferable people also like to be early adopters so they can say they are different and therefore better.
There are plenty of super helpful people in the community, and Linux is well past the early adopter phase. The transition from Windows is smoother than it has ever been.
Man they must really hate the mass uptake. Makes them less special with every install.
(I keed, we all know they identity politic with the distros instead)
Yes, a lot of Linux users are insufferable, but there are also people willing to help in a nice and normal manner …
Those are not the ones crawling out of the woodworks.
Saldy you are mostly right, bnut there are people like me who want to help (as far as I can)
I think the Doctor Who fanbase is the actual worst out of all fanbases but I still like watching the show. you don’t have to participate in the community if you want to use something. I use Linux but I’m not wearing thigh high socks and sitting in the Arch discord all day.
Unfortunately my experiences with linux tell me that i will have to engage with the community, because there will be shit i need to look up and fix fairly often.
But do you own the stockings?
yes when I installed Arch a week later a pair of stockings showed up in the mail oddly enough.
“I won’t use this thing, because fans of this thing are annoying.” The willingness of people to cut off their nose to spite their face never fails to amaze me.
Came here for the “use Linux” comments. Like clockwork. To be fair: I’m guilty of it too.
I’ve used Shutup10 on my Windows partitions for years. Surprised I didn’t see it mentioned here.
Good control over copilot and any other Wndows nastiness.
Run it after every Windows update. MS loves sneakily re-enabling some settings.
Why would anybody want this?
My first thought seeing this headline was “who cares I’m using Linux anyway” … My second thought was "Well I’m probably gonna start working in a mixed environment again soon and I’ll be the one who’ll have to disable Recall for the Users … So good to know
Step 1: Install Linux.
Arch btw.
I have better things to do than spend hours trying to do simple things like permanent mounting of a network drive.
I wish it were that easy. I’m pretty tech literate and I’ve had Linux installed on and off since the late 1990’s. I’m running fedora desktop on a dual boot machine that also has windows 10. The PC will run windows 11 but just like everyone else I’m not excited to upgrade.
But I still have to hop over to windows to do things. I know it’s a chicken and egg thing, but Linux just needs to get over the hump if ease of use and app availability.
Having to switch from. App1 to app1 that boat do say, CAD, is hard. It’s a learning curve. And add that learning curve into also switching to Linux and it’s overwhelming.
I actually got my dad on fedora, and he went all in and set it up, and worked quite diligently to get everything working for how he used his computer. He did this because his PC was fine but not windows 11 compatible. End the end there were just too many things that he struggled with and he broke down and bought a new PC that came with 11. One of the big issues he had was with documents. Syncing documents that he was editing.
He was OK relearning a new Libre Office but it was syncing it back to a Google drive or something that ultimately did not work for him. (I can’t remember exactly what he was doing).
He ran with Fedora for a couple months before giving up
Getting certain Windows apps to run on Linux is still impossible, unfortunately.
What I don’t understand is that file syncing is well supported. While I would never condone using a Google product, Celeste and Insync both support Google Drive. Aside from those, Dropbox has a native Linux package, and a self-hosted NAS is always a sound investment.
Ya, for my father (in his 70s) I was proud he gave it a real effort, but there were just too many changes and things that broke his workflow causing him to bail on it
I run a W10 LTSC VM on both my laptop and desktop for this purpose. I refuse to use Windows on bare metal, but I also understand that some software simply does not exist (nor functions under Wine) on Linux. Things like Adobe Acrobat, which I need for legal things from my lawyer for custody stuff, some vehicle diagnostic software, and software for my fucking labelmaker (Brother PT-D600, broken screen, will fix or replace eventually).
Ya, it’s annoying for sure… As I said, chicken and egg type thing. The market share has to be there before these companies will invest anything in linux. You’d think macos would be a gateway to them providing linux support but that doesn’t seem to translate well.
I highly recommend using an old laptop and keeping the windows machine. This allows you to fully use the linux laptop as your not booting back and forth. Further with these type of issues a “bleeding edge” distro like fedora is not ideal. My recommendation has always been zorin for a set it and forget it distro. Its an ubuntu spin that uses the stable release and tends to be a bit late even on that (which is most peoples complaint about it) but it is good at being stable and having everything you need out of box as well as emulating a basic windows feel.
Doctors hate this one simple trick!
Just installed cachy on my partners PC. They just play games, I handle the maintenance.
So far they are impressed at how quick it feels and how fast and unintrusive the system updates are.
Love to hear these success stories and positive impressions and good vibes. Hope it lasts! 🥰
Step 412: realize that there is no REAL alternative to Excel.
Then you are probably using Excel for the wrong thing
LibreOffice Calc isn’t good enough? I rarely use it so I have no idea.
you can make do for office apps. try graphic design.
What features of Excel do you use that warrants exclusivity? I’m genuinely curious.
Mountains and mountains of janky spaghetti code VBA macros. That’s the only answer left.
Does anyone have any go-to resources to help with scripting LibreOffice Calc? I do not need to convert Excel/VBA scripts for use with LibreOffice; I am fine writing things from scratch. But learning VBA at work was incredibly easy because I could just do a generic Internet search for what I want to do, and there would be a dozen different help posts and articles with detailed explanations and exact code to solve the problem with VBA. But on the LibreOffice Calc side, I cannot find much useful information, for either BASIC or Python.
My favorites PoPOS. And learning linux can lead to a good paying job.
I’m curious on what features does Windows have other other OSes. Just gaming? Music and video editing can be on MacOS. Linux can do everything else.
Very little gaming still requires Windows since the development of Proton. The main compatibility problems that remain seem to involve kernel-invasive anti-cheat systems.
Usability.
Windows and Mac are both easier to use for the standard user.
I’m a technical person and even I struggle with what/how the hell I’m supposed to even install applications on Linux:
Should I download the binaries? Should I use snap/flatpak/etc? If I do one vs the other which is more up to date? If I can’t find it in the software store can I trust random online sites?
And that’s just finding applications. Most people don’t have hours of free time to read forums to understand how to fix something that broke (assuming the distro they choose even has a thread relating to the issue).
Windows is a marketing and spying platform. It is targeted by any and every scammer, hacker, used for harvesting your data by programs you install. It is sold as an “easy to use” computer - most ppl don’t even know what an OS is - until 6 months later when the CPU is at 100% and you don’t know why, the hard drive is filling up and you no longer know if your files are local or in “the cloud”. I service older computers for friends and family on a regular basis. Half of them now have Ubuntu installed on old laptops and it’s an eye opener for them. Because most people don’t install new apps. They just want to browse, read emails, open documents, watch movies and listen to music. If you avoid snap and flatpak and install with APT or just download an AppImage you’re going to be ok.
Wait, this seems completely backwards.
Windows: Here is some forum post to some rando’s software. SomeShit.exe. Should I install it?
As opposed to Linux: I look in the category of the software I am interested in, click install.
And as far as breaking… I use linux because it doesn’t break. I don’t have time for windows bullshit.
I feel like clearly everyone here is smarter than me or something.
I’ve been running Kubuntu for a while and here is a recent anecdote and you can tell me if I’m just an idiot. I went to install an application so opened up the software store. After installing I found out it was an out of date version of the software. I went to the companies site and they recommended a flatpak install. Kubuntu doesn’t have flatpak enabled by default, so I have to lookup how to install flatpak and could then install the flatpak. However another piece of software recommends using the apt install, and another the Kubuntu store is fine. All of this is okay, but now there are three different ways I have to manage my software.
Its fine for me, but if that’s really the case, you’ll loose the average user at using the command line to install flatpak.
average user at using the command line to install flatpak.
Kubuntu require you to use a command line to get flatpaks? Usually it is just a toggle in a package manager. I think Fedora is on by default.
I just looked it up again and it seems like they require you run a command in the console to enable flatpak. I’m not sure if it’s cause they use snaps, given it’s an Ubuntu derivative. I suspect as flatpak continues to win out it’ll all tend that way.
However, the fact this its even a discussion is kinda my point.
So I wanted to see for myself.
Ubuntu… ugg the worst of all distros. I had issues with it since it came out. I never got why it took off. Although I did like their fonts, colors, and Unity. (Even as a KDE person).
So my experience: download Kubuntu. Install. Click update. It of course throws an error. I ignore it and click update again. This time it succeeds but it seemed like forever. Why is that? I can’t stress this enough: Nearly everytime I have tried to work with Ubuntu the very first thing it does is throw an error. Never a good look.
Anyways: Click on software center. Go to settings. Click enable Flatpack. Click on Flatpack add Flathub as a repository. (That step is a little confusing actually, but it is there). Search for Strawberry music player: it offers to add it from Flatpak.
No command line ever used.
The confusion sometimes comes from looking up info, which will lead to the command line. Becuase command line is always the easiest way to share information. Same thing with windows, when I go to fix stuff, they offer powershell. A dozen gui steps and pictures reduced to a single line.
Wow! I appreciate your thoroughness.
After hearing you found it in a setting I went looking around again, and while I couldn’t find any official Kubuntu documentation, it does seem like Flathub has a setup guide that mentions it as a setting config.
Also, I generally lean towards Ubuntu as most support I find online leans Debian, but curious what distro you use.
Usability.
Windows and Mac are both easier to use for the standard user.
Not at all true anymore for Windoze. Windows 7 was the last installment where that was true. Linux distributions are consistent. Once shown how the basics works, e.g.,
apt installorpacman -Sand the general whereabouts of settings or software, it’s super easy to get them going, indefinitely. Even troubleshooting is within reach because searching the settings isn’t a maze within a maze (except for Gnome sometimes). Windoze keeps changing shit constantly, reinstalls uninstalled software, search algorithm is horrible and has Bing search results within the menu enabled by default [the fuck?], updates don’t indicate how long they’ll last, setting a default program often requires configuring it manually for every file extension, oh goddamn fuckers I have to stop typing because Microsoft pisses me off so bad.
Tabula rasa, if I had to teach a 70-year-old who’s never touched a computer before, to do so, I’d pick Linux every time. Consistency and customization is key. Microsoft makes their users dumb by an illusion of convenience which shatters the instant something goes wrong, like riding a bike with helper wheels that constantly fail. Linux does none of that. It empowers users quite quickly by simply learning how to ride a bike properly. Sure, you fall every so often at the start, but that made mastery that much more satisfying.apt install as the basics? It’s not even needed. Try LinuxMint, it’s way more simple and usable than Windows, no shell commands necessary
Windows and Mac are both easier to use for the standard user.
I really doubt that a standard user would have that much problems to do his work with the normal programs (an office suite, a browsere a little else) once Linux with a DE (let be KDE, GNOME or whatever) is installed.
The limitation is not the disto itself, it is the lack of support for some software (like Grasshooper or CAD)
It’s possible that I underestimate the average user, but I did work IT at one point in my life and I still vividly recall needing to point out to someone that their computer wasn’t turning on becuase it wasnt plugged in.
If we go down this road, I am old enough to remember people pinning 5 1/4 floppy disks to the cabinet using magnets and then being surprise it did not work anymore, or people that when asked to do a copy of the disk went to the copy machine.
But that was at the beginning (199x), now I would not consider “average user” someone who is not even able to realize that the pc is not plugged in, tbh.My example was just to highlight that the “average user” may not be as technically capable as many in this thread propose. But that’s also why I called out I may be underestimating the average user.
I’m a technical person and even I struggle with what/how the hell I’m supposed to even install applications on Linux:
On my distro it’s 1) Open App Store 2) Search for Software 3) hit “install”.
Should I download the binaries? Should I use snap/flatpak/etc?
That’s a matter of personal preference, but once you understand the difference, which is really not that complex, then the choice should be practically automatic.
If I do one vs the other which is more up to date?
You can check the version number.
If I can’t find it in the software store can I trust random online sites?
You have the same issue in Windows.
I wasn’t asking for guidance, I’m just pointing out that these are all things that reduce usability. While you’re right that some of these issues also exist on the windows side, it’s not as prolific.
If more people grew up using Linux it might not be as bad, but even still Linux can still break easily and in many ways offers too much freedom for the average user.
I think that a lot of technical people forget that the average user is quick to give up and has a knack for breaking things. Many of the restrictive elements in Mac and Windows are to protect the average user, usually to the bane of the super user.
I wasn’t asking for guidance, I’m just pointing out that these are all things that reduce usability.
I wasn’t giving you guidance, I was just pointing out that you are making it sound like some insane struggle to get and install programs on Linux. Usually it’s even more straightforward than in windows, especially if you already know what you are doing.
I’m just pointing out that these are all things that reduce usability.
Those are all examples of things that increase usability. Having multiple different ways to install a piece of software is only a problem if you allow choice paralysis to consume you. Right now you know just enough to know those options exist, but not their purpose or function. Literally less than 1/2 hour of googling would answer all of those questions, and with the benefit that you now better understand the useful functionality of your operating system. You only have to spend that 1/2 hour one time, and for the rest of your life you wouldn’t stress out over a flatpak vs a binary, or whatever. And again, for a new user they are probably best served by just opening the app store and hitting install. Easy, breezy, beautiful.
While you’re right that some of these issues also exist on the windows side, it’s not as prolific.
That’s just not true. Linux has had app stores for decades. Windows didn’t. Until recently, if you needed an app for Windows you had to trust ‘random online sites’ to get software. Now that Windows has it’s own app store, you can use both ways install apps in Windows- no different than in Linux.
I think that a lot of technical people forget that the average user is quick to give up and has a knack for breaking things. Many of the restrictive elements in Mac and Windows are to protect the average user, usually to the bane of the super user.
I just remember being a new Windows user and having to learn what a .dll and a .exe was. What the registry was, what installer ‘wizards’ were and how to properly use them, how to find the place in the control panel where you uninstall programs, how to update my system, what ‘fragmentation’ meant how how to solve it, how to not get viruses and how to remove them if you did, how the file system was set up and how to navigate it- There was a lot of stuff to learn, and you either learned it or you weren’t able to properly use your system. Same when I briefly switched to OS X.
It’s no different in Linux. People just don’t want to take the time to learn how things are done in Linux. The reality is it’s really not that hard to get up and running in Linux at all. And while you can always go deeper and learn more- its typically not necessary nowadays. I put Linux on my moms old computer when she was in her 70’s. She was not a techie person at all (extreme understatement). It took about 5 minutes max to get her up to speed. It was never an issue.
Many of the restrictive elements in Mac and Windows are to protect the average user
It’s simply a matter of readjusting your mindset. If you are about to do a simple and straightforward task that you already know how to do, chances are in Linux there are 10 other ways to accomplish the same thing- but you are in no way forced to know what they are or how to do them. If you are curious and want to know- that’s great. Take a little bit of time and learn them. If not- don’t.
Choice is good.
Oh, no, too much freedom. Can’t have that.
Instead of saying “The average user can’t do this”, why not let the average user try?
Cause there is literally nothing stopping the average user from trying, and yet they typically choose windows or macs.
But also, let’s be honest, most people just use a tablet or their phone now anyways. If you believe these numbers, people are choosing even more locked down OSs like android and IOS. Trying to get them to use linux just isn’t likely.
I’m not anti Linux, I use it all the time. But trying to convince the average user to change their OS is an uphill battle.
Average user here. I don’t have time to take up PCs as a hobby. When I need a computer, I need it to just do what I want so I can be done with it.
PC hobbyists always discount the amount of time and effort it takes to be a PC hobbyist. Like a recipe writer who completely ignores prep time and says a complicated recipe will only take 45 minutes.
I recognize it may be a pretty niche issue, but i still haven’t found a Linux app that i can build Monte Carlo simulation models with, though I think some of the developers of these types of apps have made MacOS ports. The ones that I’ve historically used are Excel add-ons, but i haven’t found anything similar yet for Libre Office, or stand alone app.
I would think you would want to do that in python anyways, regardless of the OS. I suppose it might be relative to what you want to do, there are several monte carlo applications for linux but they are focused on certain fields. Whats yours?
Risk Management. I have some very limited experience with using R, but not really any Python experience. There was a good set of tools (Excel add-ons) from ProbabilityManagement.org that gave a lot of flexibility in the models that you could build (e.g. not restricting a user to building financial risk models or schedule risk models like a lot of other risk management apps). I’m not really trying to complain about not being able to find this on Linux, and run an air-gapped Windows machine to hang on to this capability.
I also run silly things like modeling expected dollars needed to complete a Funko collection.
Adoption.
MacOS doesn’t run on my hardware, but yeah editing software and CAD software are the reasons I’m on Windows still.
Technically Davinci Resolve does run on Linux, but it’s not always stable and lacks certain codec support.
I haven’t found a good replacement for lightroom yet, darktable is too complex for me, and rawtherapee doesn’t really manage my library well but is an OK RAW editor.
yup. Digital cinema / mastering here and most of our kit is still windows because linux just doesn’t support the software. The previous suggestion of “JuSt uSe a MaC” can get in the bin for multiple reasons.
Watching Windows gets worse and worse is a lot more fun when you don’t have to use it. I use Mint btw.
It is sad to see the mental gymnastics people do to justify their inertia.
“It’s opt-in!”
“You can disable feature X easily by editing the registry”
“You can install this tool from a shifty site to restore that feature MS disabled”
Fun for us. Not so fun for people who have to use it.
The emails you write to people who use Windows are not private anymore too
Unless you used PGP or something, emails were never “private” in any meaningful sense of the word.
Emails you write to literally anyone are no longer private the moment it leaves your outbox.
maybe sooner if you are using big tech webmail
Well, unless you are one of the dozen people using gpg encryption.
That is not going to stop Windows Recall from screenshotting the message once decrypted.
What I mean is that you don’t have control over it anymore, whoever received it can show it to whoever and whatever they choose.
@knatschus @SaharaMaleikuhm This is an interesting take. I hope that Email Clients which supports GPG ( none Microsoft Products ) will also deny recall from function like brave does by default -> https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/23/brave/_browse/_block/_microsoft/_recall/
It would also be a interesting question if under GDPR companies need to tell you that they might have shared your emails with Microsoft because they enabled Recall ( if they so do ) …
So many questions …
LMDE here. No ragrets. Mint features, Debian stability, and none of the Canonical weirdness.
I really liked LMDE. I eventually moved to arch though because I’m a tinkerer at heart. If I need stability without constant updates though, a Debian based distro is my go-to. LMDE for a desktop, or just straight up Debian with no thrills for a server.
For my servers I also really liked Truenas scale and Proxmox, but if I need something generic I go with Debian as well yess
Debian Rolling here. Have used different distros and I dont judge anyone who wants to use Linux. Glad you made the switch.
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Visit LinuxMint.com
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Press download
I don’t see that button my keyboard /s
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Setting aside for the moment that it is a much better idea to just stop using windows. One of Microsofts arguments for why you shouldn’t continue using Windows 10 is because it will stop being updated and will soon be insecure and get inundated with malware, adware, spyware ect. But Windows 11 already comes preinstalled with all of that so what difference does it make?
You’re delusional if you think Microsoft’s preinstalled crap is at all comparable to what hackers will do with a vulnerable PC.
Also this feature in particular is only for AI PCs which your Win10 PC probably won’t upgrade to.
For the folks saying install Linux keep in mind you can indirectly be captured by this feature.
For example if you’re playing an online video game you’ll be captured or your chat messages in your messaging app.
That’s pretty easily avoidable, too. Don’t play online games, or talk to people. That’s what I do.
And Linux will actively help you avoid doing both of those things.
Of course, the idea is that there’s less risk of that the more people switch.
You can’t convince 99% of windows users to switch, the real solution is done via legislation. The force of a government is more powerful any boycotts you can muster. (For example: European Union has been passing a regulations on right to repair, do privacy laws next)
Why not both? As Linux achieves more and more momentum, you are bound to see real change in how Microsoft treats its users.
Legislation is a poor way to force populations into changing away from something they choose to do/use. As the saying goes “It’s hard to talk someone out of something they weren’t talked into”.
Example: See France or Somalia
In this case the legislation would be used to ban recall and similar features, not to drive people away from windows.
“How to disable this opt in feature”: “don’t turn it on”
I get that Lemmy is a bastion for M$ hate but FUD articles get annoying.
Microsoft’s idea of consent:
Do you want to turn on Recall?
- Yes
- Maybe Later
I had a rough morning and your comment made it worst.
It won’t be just opt-in for very long.
Also it’s only for AI Windows which requires an AI chip. Considering how anti-AI the fediverse is, I doubt any of the people here would be getting AI Windows in the first place. It’s a non-issue for the users here already from the get-go at the requirements.
