• Sigmatics@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    “2x above WHO limits” means “within EU limits”. WHO recommends 5 micrograms, which is pretty unrealistic considering the population density of urban areas today. Unless we fully move off CO2 based transportation

    • Anekdoteles@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      Unless we fully move off CO2 based transportation

      Which is no problem at all in urban areas.

    • frostbiker@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      Unless we fully move off CO2 based transportation

      My understanding is that electric cars produce similar amounts of particulate pollution compared to other cars, because while they lack an internal combustion engine, they are also heavier and that increased the amount of particulates produced through tire wear and braking.

      In other words, cars as a whole are the problem. Walking, cycling, streetcars and subways are the solution.

      • Macros@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        While it is true that all cars hurt the environment (Creating a 1t box out of rare and complex materials and moving it along with the person to every place simply does) the thing with particle pollution is a myth by the anti-climate-change-mitigation movement.

        Just think of the fact that they use regenerative breaking most of the time. Almost no wear on the breaks. And the battery weight is largely offset by drive train and engine.

        https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/running/do-electric-vehicles-produce-more-tyre-and-brake-pollution-than-petrol-and/

        • frostbiker@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          The very article you linked shows how the real-world tire wear of electric vehicles is substantially higher than the same models using IC engines. Whether it is due to higher acceleration or higher weight is not explained.

          I am not opposed to electric cars. I am opposed to all cars and to the idea that electric cars are somehow a panacea, ignoring their externalities like traffic noise, air pollution and danger to other road users.

          • Macros@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            It doesn’t?

            It is 12.5% higher for a taxi company as stated in the article ( 25% Front wheels, 0% rear wheels, while break wear is 50% lower) and there was no difference measured for moderately driven vehicles.

            Edit: This also strongly suggests it is due to acceleration as the back wheels also have to carry the weight and the front wheels get the additional wear from the acceleration)

            Combine that with tail pipe/energy emissions (which only get better as more and more of our energy mix is renewable) and the picture is quite clear.

            I repeat myself here: Yes I agree cars are bad! Reasons stated above. But if somebody insists on buying a new car it is better for the climate and the environment if he gets an electric one.

            For the record: Nope do not have a car myself and I am well of legal age to get one.

      • Sigmatics@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        That would be even better. But knowing how lazy/convenient people are, it will never happen

        (I don’t own a car myself and am doing just fine)

        • ApfelstrudelWAKASAGI@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          I think a lot of the convenience just has to do with what’s availible and what’s commonly done. There are cities where public transport is completely the norm (or cycling etc. are extremely common) but it has to be convenient, cheap, and availible.

          In other words, the gov’t has to invest first.

        • bilboswaggings@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          Ofc, nearly everything is corrupt as well

          In this scenario though I would just much rather have cleaner air than have the EU and the rest of the world moving the goalposts

      • Sigmatics@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        I agree, as I said I would love to move off carbon based transport. But the 5 microgram goal is realistically not achievable with the current state of transportation and the current political goalposts of electrification

    • letmesleep@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      Or we start filtering the air we breathe. I.e. use more air cleaners and wear masks more often.

        • letmesleep@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          Become? The problem here is that we already are far beyond what is healthy. Air quality tends to be worse in China than in Europe, but a big difference is also that the Chinese tend to be less hesitant about wearing masks when it’s important for the health.

          The air is actually getting better (both in Europe and in China), but it will likely take decades before it’s within WHO limits. Hence for the foreseeable future it makes sense to consider masks and air cleaners as an option. I’m not saying it’s a good idea to wear a mask 24/7, but there’s quite a few places and times in Europe where I’d put one on. There’s real time data (e.g. here for Germany) and certain weather conditions exacerbate the problem, so it should be possible to avoid most issues with relatively little mask wearing.

          The only issue with normal (FFP1-FFP3) masks is that they only work against particulates. For other issues (SOx, NOx, Ozone) they don’t do much. Though afaik air cleaners with activated charcoal are helpful in these cases.

        • Chaotic Entropy@feddit.uk
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          1 year ago

          I already tend to wear an N95 on the Tube in London whenever I go there. The air quality down there is absolutely horrendous, let alone being packed in like sardines.