Between that and the uutils-coreutils, Ubuntu 25.10 sounds like it’ll be an interesting experience for users, especially those with accessibility and internationalisation needs.
Well, they do recommend using LTS releases and the specifically change stuff more drastically on the release before the next LTS release.
Yeah, I think the fact that the next LTS will be 26.04 is the driver here, I just get the impression that things might get a little rocky and that they might’ve been better off had the next LTS been further into the future.
But it’ll be a real smoke test release, at least. Hopefully they have enough resources to fix the issues that are uncovered, and don’t wind up reverting for the LTS, or with a crummy LTS.
I fully agree with you on the accessibility front. It’s not even good on X11, but it’s unusable on Wayland, from what I understand :( Accessibility on Linux needs a massive funding and development initiative, and it needed to be done a long time ago.
But uutils is pretty solid. I’ve swapped out my GNU coreutils entirely (on Arch, not Ubuntu, because I value my time too much to be troubleshooting broken snaps) and haven’t run into any issues. I think people are underestimating how close the compatibility already is. I’m sure something I use at some point will try to invoke an option that doesn’t exist in the uutils version, but it’s been solid for me so far.
It’s not the viability of the rust replacement of uutils that is the core of my issue. My issue is that mature code that has been tested, audited, and is stable has been removed for no viable reason other than it could have bugs.
It’s not for no viable reason. Rust is just safer than C. There absolutely are bugs with GNU coreutils, so it’s not even a hypothetical like you implied. But beyond safety, some of the Rust equivalents are more performant than their C counterparts.
And uutils is already heavily tested against the GNU coreutils. It’s not some fly-by-night rewrite that people aren’t serious about. I don’t know if it’s been formally audited yet, but it absolutely will be when companies like Canonical (and hopefully SUSE and Red Hat, one day) want to start shipping them.
Yeah, I think those are just lacking in the internationalisation?
People like me, who at most have some reading glasses needs and have their computer set to generally English utf-8 will be likely be fine.
internationalization
Interesting point. I don’t actually know about that. What can the GNU coreutils do with regard to internationalization? Just the output of commands, or can they also internationalize stuff like command args?
I’m generally an
en_*.UTF-8user (even trieden_DK.UTF-8for a bit for a reason we’ll come back to), so I don’t have a complete picture of it and would have to go look at the documentation or source for that, but I’d expect- documentation
- date formats:
en_DK.UTF-8should give you ISO8601-formatted dates, if I can’t have that I at least want DD/MM/YYYY; the US-american nonsense is just plain unacceptable - sorting: e.g. Norwegian will have …zæøå and expect
aato be sorted aså, the Swedes have …zåöä, the Germans …zäöü, the Turks will want ı and İ sorted and upper/lowercased correctly, and there are some options around how you deal with “foreign” letters and diacritics. - Probably more stuff relating to
LC_*that I can’t think of off the top of my head
but in any case, an
ls -loutput should be different depending on your locale, and in ways you likely don’t even think about as long as it looks normal.
wait, we will lose xEyes?
No, thanks to XWayland.
but it doesn’t work perfectly, xeyes through XWayland only follows your cursor if it’s hovering another XWayland window
which makes it a fun way to see which apps use XWayland tho!
KDE has you covered. Someone made an applet that works on Wayland too: https://github.com/luisbocanegra/plasma-cursor-eyes
Hope they’re gonna devote the development resources to making it actually work.
While it actually works, there are truly some missing features obviously. The hope is, when lot of major distributions and desktop environments stop supporting X11, then application developers and Wayland developers have to find a solution quicker. This will accelerate development of Wayland, at least the remaining issues.
One area where Wayland needs to improve is support for various accessibility features.
That does feel rther like jumping out of a plane and hoping you can finish making your paracute before it’s too late.
The concept of moving on from X11 is a good one, but making Wayland just a protocol that every compositor has to implement separately, and having so many optional larts to the spec seems like a guarantee that the ecosystem around it will never properly mature.
The KiCad developers have a good article about some of the issues with Wayland here.
I actually see this working out in the long run at least. In the mean time, there will be a lot of creativity while everyone tries to “invent the wheel” while great ideas perculate up during the stabalization phase.
Oh wow. I am suddenly less excited about our Wayland future.
Damn yeah. Just the window managment issues are a complete no go for any productive work.
This is big “if we break your old toys, you’ll HAVE to play with the new ones” energy.
Tell me when they port FVWM. Seriously. FvwmButtons-- a pretty trivial dock except it can swallow other windows-- seems like it would be out-of-bounds on Wayland unless it was owned by the compositor itself to access the other windows. I don’t see any of the new taskbar-tools used with Wayland compositors offering similar functionality (I could be wrong) and that seems an amazing loss of feature parity.
How is wayland nvidia gaming at the moment?
Several months ago I tried gaming on wayland with nvidia and it was completely broken for me.
Just make sure the kernel modules are enabled and so are the systemd services. Shouldn’t have a problem. It’s been butter since they released the VRR fix a few months ago
Could you please guide me to relevant documentation for this?
For now I’ll just start at the Arch wiki for wayland.
I’ve got an nvidia card and I’ve personally got no complaints about Wayland! been using it for some time to much success, I feel like x11 is just ‘off’ in comparison.
I’ve been gaming with a 2080ti in Wayland for about a year now. I can’t say I’ve had any issues related to my graphics card at all. The only hiccups I’ve had are with a couple of games, maybe two, that I had to tweak to run. They were known issues with public fixes. It’s been a great experience.
There was an issue a few months back with multi monitor setups. Anytime I changed a monitor input, it would hard lock. It’s fixed now.
Depends on the desktop environment in my experience. On Fedora Gnome it was an unstable mess with my Nvidia RTX card but Fedora KDE Plasma has been stable.
It was mainly on Nobara but I guess my negative experience also followed me from troubles in debian early 2024.
Games worked for me on Kubuntu, but a lot of other things were seriously broken. Compositor/Desktop effects did not work at all, weird screen artifacts, Taskbar crashes, Discord lags terribly and has display problems. I don’t know, if that is going to be the new Desktop experience, we’re gonna have a problem.
It works just fine for me on my RTX 3060 Ti. No significant performance decrease or stuttering at all (except in Cities Skylines II but that’s not Wayland’s fault)
Several months ago I had a similar experience. Even just running plasma with Wayland+Nvidia was enough to cause problems.
This was my experience. I could barely even get my machine to run.
