I hope they lose this case badly.
For the concerns I have about AI and stealing others work, I want to see Reddit burn for pretending that they are all about community and connection, while actively harming their users’ experience on the platform and attempting to profit off their content.
No matter who wins, everyone loses.
In the filing, Reddit calls Anthropic a “late-blooming artificial intelligence (‘AI’) company that bills itself as the white knight of the AI industry,” alleging that “it is anything but.”
“This case is about the two faces of Anthropic: the public face that attempts to ingratiate itself into the consumer’s consciousness with claims of righteousness and respect for boundaries and the law, and the private face that ignores any rules that interfere with its attempts to further line its pockets.”
I mean, Reddit’s objection is that they want to sell the same data to Google to do the same training.
I dunno, it just reads like a reddit comment to me. 🤣
They actually quite that in a real legal filing?
Jesus.
Did they ask /r/pettyrevenge to write that?
So who owns the data?
Well they already sold it for 60 million and I didnt get a dime, so not me apparently.
Reddit, created by users and Russian bots
So if reddit wins, that means the content is theirs. So if the content is theirs, they are liable for any content that is illegal. Is that true?
yes to both regardless of this lawsuit
The wiggle room for large businesses is that they remove content that violates local laws when notified of it
The content’s theirs whether they win or not, isn’t it? It’s in the EULA when you sign up.
Edit: Here’s the clause.
You retain any ownership rights you have in Your Content, but you grant Reddit the following license to use that Content:
When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in connection with Your Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed anywhere in the world. This license includes the right for us to make Your Content available for syndication, broadcast, distribution, or publication by other companies, organizations, or individuals who partner with Reddit. For example, this license includes the right to use Your Content to train AI and machine learning models, as further described in our Public Content Policy. You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content.
non-exclusive
That means we can license all our content to another company, and Reddit would be forced to allow them to fetch it, as we still own it, right?
It certainly reads that way. Gonna start a Reddit User Collective? Licence it to Anthropic at a discount to undercut Reddit? That could be pretty funny.
That would be legally possible, though, obviously, you would have to pay for your own servers.
In practice, it wouldn’t be worth anyone’s time.
I don’t see why. Users own the content wherever it’s located. Reddit, of course, would be free to remove that content, but that would be cutting off their own nose to spite their face and is also acceptable.
You don’t see why you would need your own servers? Do you see why unauthorized access to a computer system might be illegal?
Non-exclusive just means you’re free to give a copy of your content to whoever you want. It doesn’t mean Reddit is obligated to distribute it for you.
No. Just because you own a copyright, doesn’t mean that you are entitled to free network services. If you owned the copyright to a movie, would you expect free tickets for any cinema showing it?
No. I am not aware of any law that makes you liable by holding or claiming the copyright to some content. EG you may have to pay damages for libel, but not because you have copyright to the libelous statement.
This is like one of those cases where I’m kind of hoping they both lose somehow. Neither party are right in this case, Reddit is trying to claim copyright over content they have no rights to, and anthropic shouldn’t be violating copyright without a licence.
But apparently you are actually allowed to violate copyright without a licence if you’re an AI company because apparently llms are the future? So I guess Reddit are going to lose, which will be funny.
I am squarely on the reddit should lose this side.
Anthropic may be breaking copyright, but not Reddit’s copyright. Sure maybe Anthropic should be sued, but not by Reddit.
Actually this case could be a good thing. The whole question of who owns user generated content needs hashing out, because no one seems to actually know.
Obviously the logical answer would be that the people who created it own the content, but that’s never been officially decided.
Because that’s the only common sense conclusion to make, but that doesnt make rich fucks more money
Yeah maybe we shouldn’t have the case in the US where money rules everything.
EU get on it.
The whole question of who owns user generated content needs hashing out, because no one seems to actually know.
It’s billionaires. They know. They just sometimes squable over it like two year olds. But they know. They pay lawyers to make it clear in thousand page terms of service documents.
Judge finds that anthropic has to pay restitution to the reddit users. Affirms that posts belong to users.
Well, I can dream.
You mean Reddit, the company that would be very happy if Anthropic did the exact same thing, but paid Reddit first?
“Violating copyright without a licence” is a lovely turn of phrase. You must be the valedictorian of the Lemmy School of Copyright.
Is it violating copyright to browse the web?
I think it’s acceptable as long as you don’t learn anything.
“Reddit’s humanity is uniquely valuable in a world flattened by AI,“ Lee said. ”Now more than ever, people are seeking authentic human-to-human conversation. Reddit hosts nearly 20 years of rich, human discussion on virtually every topic imaginable. These conversations don’t happen anywhere else—and they’re central to training language models like Claude.”
LMAO, reddit’s days of genuine conversations between humans is long gone.
Only 100,000 times? Shit, do I need to be worried about getting sued too?
All porn subreddits are exempted
Reddit is just mad that Anthropic didn’t pay them
… Yes?
Yes that is how capitalism works
The Users posted for free. They didn’t get paid. They should be publicly available for scraping
As the fediverse gods intended
I’m a reddit user, where’s my share?!?!
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Nah which is why I give a shit about the capitalist argument. Steal everything
deleted by creator
Long story short: They are not combatting bots on their platform. They sold training data to google and these guys aren’t paying, that’s why they’re suing.
Spez can forever get fucked
Suck shit reddit.
while half of reddit is infested with propaganda bots from russia.
Not just Russia.
Israel, US, China, North Korea, India and other countries… Nuclear Lobby, Fossil Fuel Lobby and countless other industry lobbyists… Private companies advertising their products…
But have you seen Rampart?
First of all, I have not seen it, and second off, I don’t want to see it. Lets focus on the Reddit lawsuit.
“We’re the front page of the Internet!”
“No, not like that…”
“We’re the front page of the Internet! …as long as the front page isn’t scraped…” >:(
I hope they both choke on their own bots.
100.000 accesses isn’t that much, right?
100,000 requests in 11 months? That’s about 12.5 requests an hour
That’s hardly anything. Facebook has a bot accessing my server’s robots.txt multiple times a second. (My robots.txt used to say “Facebook bot go away” but now I just respond 404 to any requests from the Facebook bot. Pretend I said that all technical and stuff, it’s 2 am and I ought to go to sleep.)
That’s what I’m sayin! I make more than 12.5 requests an hour to lemmy and I’m a human I’m 90.00000000000001% sure
I wonder if I can get Facebook to give me some of that sweet, sweet cash for the inconvenience of telling them to bugger off…
Some legitimate users probably submit more requests than that
Back in the day that’s about how many times I accessed reddit a week.