cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/29579005
An open source project the size of Lemmy needs constant work to manage the project, implement new features and fix bugs. Dessalines and I work full-time on these tasks and more. As there is no advertising or tracking, all of our work is funded through donations. Unfortunately the amount of donations has decreased to only 2000€ per month. This leaves only 1000€ per developer, which is not enough to pay my bills. With the current level of donations I will be forced to find another job, and drastically reduce my contributions to Lemmy. To avoid this outcome and keep Lemmy growing, I ask you to please make a recurring donation:
Liberapay | Ko-fi | Patreon | OpenCollective | Crypto
If you want more information before donating, consider the comparison with Reddit. It began as startup funded by rich investors. The site is managed by corporate executives who over time have become more and more disconnected from normal users. Their main goal is to make investors happy and to make a profit. This leads to user-hostile decisions like firing the employee responsible for AMAs, blocking third-party apps and more. As Reddit is a single website under a single authority, it means all users need to follow the same rules, including ridiculous ones like censoring the name “Luigi”.
Lemmy represents a new type of social media which is the complete opposite of Reddit. It is split across many different websites, each with its own rules, and managed by normal people who actually care about the users. There is no company and no profit motive. Much of the work is carried out by volunteer admins, mods and posters, who contribute out of enthusiasm and not for money. For users this is great as there is no advertising nor tracking, and no chance of takeover by a billionaire. Additionally there are no builtin political or ideological restrictions. You can use the software for any purpose you like, add your own restrictions or scrutinize its inner workings. Lemmy truly belongs to everyone.
Dessalines and I work fulltime on Lemmy to keep up with all the feature requests, bug reports and development work. Even so there is barely enough time in the day, and no time for a second job. Previously I sometimes had to rely on my personal savings to keep developing Lemmy for you, but that can’t go on forever. We partly rely on NLnet for funding, but they only pay for development of new features, and not for mandatory maintenance work. The only available option are user donations. To keep it viable donations need to reach a minimum of 5000€ per month, resulting in a modest salary of 2500€ per developer. If that goal is reached Dessalines and I can stop worrying about money, and fully focus on improving the software for the benefit of all users and instances. Please use the link below to see current donation stats and make your contribution! We especially rely on recurring donations to secure the long-term development and make Lemmy the best it can be.
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So many “I hate tankies” that now I’m afraid the project will die. But if those tankies have a change of heart and decide to make Lemmy for profit we will see Reddit history all over again.
2500 eur is a very low wage to live on considering the importance of this project. To be honest, the Lemmy community should be deeply thankful that the devs are “tankies“, otherwise Lemmy would be just another reddit tragedy to happen.
(And keeping .ml up costs almost nothing, their users can maintain it easily, the devs wages needs funding)
I personally find it kind of hard to support tankies
Do I really want to fund lemmyml? This whole thing puts the community in a weird position.
Yeah, i totally get it. I wish they would separate the instance funding from the dev funding, I think that would help with a clearer structure and less objections.
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That’s the logic I take issue with. It isn’t all or nothing even though that’s how this is being presented. I’m not about to fund lemmyml or the tankie developers. If that causes problems so be it but the good news is that there is plenty of people in the community help with development. I see no reason why we need to fund two peoples salaries. If I have to work to make a living they can as well.
First of all, build software is work. So work on Lemmy is work (paid or not).
I can see 2 possible meanings for what you said: 1- they should work in a regular job to make their living and abandon Lemmy, because it does not provide the means for their living.
2- they should work in a regular job to make their living and work more, for free, on Lemmy.
Please clarify, what do you mean? First or second?
Or, maybe, you mean that they should accept more code contributions from the community… Well, in that case, it would be work anyway, because managing a codebase with multiple contributors is hard and takes time as well.
Did you mean something else?
The project depends on the devs, without devs, there will be no fixes or improvements on Lemmy. And many improvements will be necessary if Lemmy user base keep on growing.
And again, maintaining .ml is so cheap that the .ml users themselves can handle the cost, we are talking about the time and work that the devs are putting in the project that both of us care about.
Do you like Lemmy? If so, donate should not be an issue.
If it is an issue, maybe you should consider migrating to other platform. The good news about it is that ActivityPub will let you access the content anyway… If Lemmy survives… And if the devs implement the compatibility.
There is no problem using Lemmy without donating. If the devs wanted donations they probably shouldn’t of pissed everyone off. They are offering up there own labor for free and there is no obligation for me to donate. I don’t like the pressure put on my the community to donate just for the sake of donating. I don’t mind giving money but it has to be earned. I don’t give free lunch. I can not in good conscious support the Lemmy devs. That doesn’t mean I have to stop using Lemmy.
There is no problem using Lemmy without donating.
Nobody will stop you, it’s just extremely convenient to be so against their views and at the same time benefit from it.
If the devs wanted donations they probably shouldn’t have pissed everyone off.
So, for their work to be worth being paid, they should not hurt your feelings, and as they did, you are entitled to use their work for free until it dies for lack of resources? That’s a very strange take.
They are offering up their own labor for free and there is no obligation for me to donate.
True! Let the project die! … Right?
I don’t like the pressure put on my the community to donate just for the sake of donating.
You know that’s not “for the sake of donating”, you just don’t want to donate for someone with a political view different from yours, but want to keep benefiting from it. It’s very hypocritical on your part.
I don’t mind giving money but it has to be earned. I don’t give free lunch.
You mind if they think differently from you.
I can not in good conscious support the Lemmy devs.
But can benefit from their work… Until you can’t because the project will die if they start to think and act like you.
That doesn’t mean I have to stop using Lemmy.
True. Aren’t we lucky that the tankies are working for the benefit of the community instead of looking for profit?
2500 eur to work as a developer in a project this size, full of ungrateful users. These guys are acting as saints, I would totally consider pausing/abandoning it if my basic needs were not met.
No that just mean you’re a moralist poser, software doesn’t develop themselves if you are using Lemmy this is thanks to the developers.
It seems you are just a privileged brat that doesn’t understand how the world works.
I will not donate to help .ml
I totally agree with you
If they want my money there needs to be some sort of non profit structure that keeps track of the money in a public way. It is hard to know where the money is actually going. I also do not want to support lemmyml in any way even if it is a development instance. If they wanted my support they shouldn’t of banned people for not holding crazy ideologies. I can not support them and it wrong for them to try guilt trip the community into giving them money. There is no way to know where it is going and why. If they can no longer support Lemmy do to financial reasons that’s fine. Lemmy is a community project and has plenty of people to work on it.
Counterpoint
It’s a tough balance to strike. On the one hand, not everyone will have their political beliefs align with the Lemmy devs, so donating to them feels like betraying your own morals and values. On the other hand, they’re pretty much the only ones keeping Lemmy going (in terms of active development, at least), so it makes sense that they need some sort of revenue to keep things afloat for everyone else.
Donating to the instance admins is awesome since users are more likely to interact with those than with the OG devs but even that only helps so much. Speaking as a user first and foremost, I can’t afford paying more than what I already am for our instance to stay alive since I’m a broke student. However, donating to the “real” devs is just as important, and if you do have the money, it’s worth a consideration at least, I’d wager.
My two cents. Obligatory “fuck tankies”
Just donated. Quick question, what does donating lemmy.org do different than donating directly to your instance?
just to be clear, lemmy.org has nothing to do with this post. This post is about support the developer of lemmy, so the lemmy software. The instance the developer are running is lemmy.ml.
Lemmy.org is just another instance that has nothing to do with the developement. If you donate to lemmy.zip is just for maintaining this instance.
So if you donate to links in this post, you support the developement of lemmy, there are 2 developer currently.
Oh so I donated to the page linked here so I donated to a developer that runs the software or lemmy.ml?
I feel so slow right now. I apologize in advance. Lol
You donated to the devs working full time with no pay developing the lemmy software that all instances run.
lemmy.ml is the instance used by the devs to test changes under real world conditions, so running that instance is funded by the same donations.For comparison:
The devs need $5000/month total, to keep developing lemmy full time.
Running lemmy.ml costs $30/month.You donated to the devs working full time with no pay developing the lemmy software
They receive grants from foundations like NLnet occasionally, so it isn’t as if they’re completely unpaid aside from individual donations.
https://join-lemmy.org/news/2024-09-11_-_New_NLnet_funding_for_Lemmy
Except that’s only for features and not for maintenance, security, or development work that doesn’t receive grants.
Okay great, thank you!
You donation goes mainly in the developement of lemmy.
