255 grams per week. That’s the short answer to how much meat you can eat without harming the planet. And that only applies to poultry and pork.
Beef cannot be eaten in meaningful quantities without exceeding planetary boundaries, according to an article published by a group of DTU researchers in the journal Nature Food. So says Caroline H. Gebara, postdoc at DTU Sustain and lead author of the study."
Our calculations show that even moderate amounts of red meat in one’s diet are incompatible with what the planet can regenerate of resources based on the environmental factors we looked at in the study. However, there are many other diets—including ones with meat—that are both healthy and sustainable," she says.
I don’t like these kinds of articles because they always have an undertone of making it a matter of personal consumer choice as opposed to systemic change.
Systemic change doesn’t happen without political will. Political will depends on personal opinions. Try to bring in systemic change with an election win but not overwhelming support then you get reactionary backlash like we’re seeing right now.
Which is why I think it’s better to start with some kind of populist attack on the excesses of the super rich. How many beef burgers was Katy Perry’s publicity stunt in low orbit?
But you don’t really have an advantage there. The super rich have a populist army of their own (maga) and they’re going all out with it in an attempt to destroy the left by attacking its foundation: academia.
WRI published an interesting article on this subject a week or so ago:
https://www.wri.org/insights/climate-impact-behavior-shifts
Systemic pressure [e.g. voting / collective action] creates enabling conditions, but individuals need to complete the loop with our daily choices. It’s a two-way street — bike lanes need cyclists, plant-based options need people to consume them. When we adopt these behaviors, we send critical market signals that businesses and governments respond to with more investment.
WRI’s research quantifies the individual actions that matter most. While people worldwide tend to vastly overestimate the impact of some highly visible activities, such as recycling, our analysis reveals four significant changes that deliver meaningful emissions reductions.
I like the bikelane analogy, actually.
It shows clearly that (a) yes you do need activism (like Critical Mass) and a few crazy ones that will bike regardless of the adverse conditions, (b) political will to shift towards bikelanes, (c ) wider adoption but also sustained activism to build better bikelanes (not painted gutters on the side of stroads, but protected lanes, connected with transit).
We definitely do not lack (a), but (c ) FOLLOWS (b). If you want to go from “just the crazies” to “everyone and their 5 year old”, systemic change needs to be backed by very concrete top-down action.
Without very meaningful (b), telling people to change their eating habits while stuff is otherwise the same is like telling people to take their kids to school on bikes next to crazy SUV traffic: it’s not happening.
Except it is happening. And its not fucking dangerous to cook a pot of beans instead of dead birds lol
Good. But until it becomes as cheap and easy for a family of 4 to eat vegan as cheaply, completely and easily as it is to not, let’s not make finger wagging the political strategy for change. Nobody wants that.
Do you really think that beans, broccoli, lentils and all the vegetables, fruits, legumes… are more expensive than meat? Don’t forget that meat also has subsidies to lower the final price, so you are also paying in taxes this “cheap” meat.
Fortunately it’s always been cheaper to eat vegan. Typically 30% cheaper, on average.
Sure, but you’re not factoring in the cost of time spent learning how and the time spent preparing. I can afford that time, not everyone can. Again: the issue is systemic, not about personal smarts or purity. Ask the simple question: what is the cultural default and what do you have to go out of your way to get. What is easy for regular people? For example: in India, even the language used is indicative: veg vs non-veg. Veg is well supported with cultural practices, abundant and easily and conveniently accessible yummy veg food. In North America, it’s literally the opposite.
That’s why I like the cycling analogy. The Dutch are not better people, they just have infrastructure that encourages cycling. The easy, the default.
true, but you have to learn to cook and try out a whole bunch of dishes from around the world. you don’t get to just go to mcdonald’s anymore you gotta take it into your own hands
If we simply stopped subsidizing meat consumption entirely the rising cost would shift more people to plant based diets.
Nope, the government would get replaced at the next election, though.
Oh boy, the red meaters are going to downvote the shit out of this.
Meh. I wouldn’t eat chicken these days either. You should see how it’s made. Corporate farming is abhorrent.
I’m kinda in this camp as well. Barely eat any meat and the meat I do buy is from small local producers where I can meet (hihi) and greet the animals.
How does that work? Do you never eat meat when you go out?
There aren’t a ton of places in the world with a good supply of vegetarian/vegan food AND enough of an ag industry you can go around petting your meat.
A majority of restaurants where I live offer at least one vegetarian option on their menu, and commonly also a vegan option (they might be the same)
Going out I have lots of vegan options so that isn’t an issue generally. And am not rigid in my principles, being a bit moderate makes me less of an obnoxious cunt. Easier to cook for, take along on outings etc.
If I hold hard on any principle it is that to not let perfect stand in the way of good. Being able to do 90% ethical consumption I find to be much better than failing to be 100% pure.
So when you buy meat you try to buy local. but when you are not being an obnoxious cunt outside you just eat any old meat?
Sounds like they’re being an obnoxious cunt
being a bit moderate makes me less of an obnoxious cunt
No. Being flexible in allowing torture sometimes definitely makes you an obnoxious cunt
i literally only have meat on special occasions because of this, the entire meat industry is horrible for animals, for your health (red meat) and for the environment.
Those of us in the USA should be asking if we think meat will be safe now that many regulations have been removed.
It won’t. But neither will anything.
They’ve gotta check with best friend’s cousins former roommate who runs a “sustainable” slaughter house where they “exclusively” (once a year) source their meat.
Can we please get moving on the lab grown meats already. This shit is getting depressing.
Vegetables aren’t so scary, are they?
Being vegan now for 6+ years seeing articles and comments about meat is dystopian as fuck. It only took me a week to go from full-blown carnivore to vegan so people struggling with this always gets me.
Everyone is different. I was never vegan, rather considered myself plant based because I allowed both local eggs and local honey in my diet (still do) but no other animal products. Did this for many years until a coworker made a lunch of local hunted venison for a staff meal, and well, I’m mostly against the industrial farming practices, this was technically ethical hunting. This man was part of our local indigenous tribe, so I indulged as not to be rude. It was a great meal honestly. Everyone gawked I was eating meat. And I spoke often about the industrial process of meat farming to try and educate, but ultimately if these people wanted to feed their kids cheetos wrapped in bacon for breakfast, nothing I could say would change that, and its not my place to chastize.
I never understood those who chastized others for trying.
Vegans hated me because I like using local honey in spring to help with my hay fever. Which I have right now :( Nevermind I haven’t had beef in years, I eat eggs from pet hens so a vegan gonna scream at me online. Yay. That will motivate me… sure thing.
The method of education isn’t going to work, and culture tied to meat cooking is so strong. Personally, giving up cheese, tbh, was really hard. Hummus wraps were the only thing that worked for me to satiate that urge for cheese. Vegan cheeses isnt it, idk why hummus wraps worked for me but it was much harder to give up cheese than butter or meat. I had to put a lot of effort to not cave to that kind of dairy at first. And im sure others have their own hang ups as well, it can be difficult, like quitting a vice.
Cultural change is slow (historically).
To note, After a number of years, a vegan friend of mine stopped being vegan. I think he was depressed, idk, but- we went to Wendy’s. I wasnt going to get anything, but he prodded, and I fucking caved to a pub burger with bacon on a pretzel roll and… my mouth had an orgasm, I swear to god. I got three more that week, realized they really do engineer this stuff to be so addictive. I questioned myself, what thefuck was doing? I had to stop this, and cut the behavior out just as fast, only because I could identify what was happening. Not everyone can.
Idk my point other than everyones journey will be different, but shaming folks isnt the ticket to healier environmental impacts always. Like I said, certsin vegans have shamed me for still consuming eggs and honey like it wasnt hard for me to give up cheese. Like telling an alcoholic they still suck because they drink soda. Its defeating.
Same. It was a very easy transition.
People are gasligting you. They’re just stubborn assholes who likely think prison torture is OK because its the status quo.
“My experience was easy so everyone else is wrong. Also those people wash their cast iron in the dishwasher.”
Lol.
I’ve tried to go vegan I think three times in my life, and vegetarian a few more times than that. I struggle with concrete issues like celiac, but also vague ones like suicidal ideation and digestive issues. And then there’s also the simple economic fact that when certain meats are on sale they’re actually cheaper per gram of protein than beans.
I don’t mean to say that there are those of us who should eat meat and we therefore require a meat industry, just to explain why some of us have trouble. To the contrary, I think my issues have been exacerbated by a world that insists meat is necessary. If being vegan were the standard, I would have a greater variety of options and more affordability, and medical professionals would be both more accepting and more knowledgeable in providing me aid.
e: “Vegan” is actually incorrect here. There are problems with the honey industry, but I don’t think beekeeping is inherently unethical, and I don’t oppose symbiotic forms of animal exploitation. I don’t know what the word for that would be.
I’ve moved to eating more non-meat than meat and skipping beef at home when I do, but I have never been able to fully convert. I was a pescatarian for almost 1.5 years in my youth and that was mostly doable, but still very tough and never really got easier.
A number of the existing alternatives involve gluten which I can’t have anymore (I rather liked seitan when I had it).
I currently have a vegetable farm and, for as much of the year as I can, eat what I grow outside for veg so they’re certainly not scary.
Not “scary”. There’s just never enough of them to fill the void inside me.
That’s psychological, the important things for fullness are fat, protein, and fiber. You can get all of those through vegetables, but it’s easy to convince your brain you’re not full. I don’t automatically feel full if I don’t eat hot food, so I have to be a little aware of it on super hot days. But it’s easy enough to tally up what I’ve actually eaten vs what exercise I’ve done and that helps my body realize that it is sated.
We really don’t need lab grown stuff when the meat alternatives on the market now are already so good
If you haven’t tried any yet, I highly recommend Impossible meat, it’s virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. Quorn is another great option.
And on a budget, Seitan is also fantastic.
I have to disagree with this. Personally, I think every chicken alternative I have tried has been bad, and more expensive. I certainly havent tried everything, but I try what I see readily available to me.
Chicken is the easiest to make (from wheat flour).
Honestly I think the meat alternatives are pretty terrible compromises to the real thing. We should be cooking to enhance the veggies flavor instead of trying to force them to be meat.
Honestly, just buy rice and beans and veggies. That plastic wraped stuff is dumb.
I would not have been able to convert my family to become vegetarians without the help of plant meats, as it allows them to continue cooking all their favorite recipes from childhood onward that are meat based, which is incredibly important to them.
I think you underestimate how useful of a tool plant meats are in converting people. In my experience it is far easier for people to switch to a plant meat than it is to convince them to abandon a significant portion of the diet they grew up with, especially if their recipes are deep rooted and cultural.
It’s something I’m extremely grateful to have in my tool belt. And in the case of Quorn, it’s not even a highly processed thing, it’s just a high protein, low carb fungus that they found naturally grew into a meaty texture, and easily absorbs vegan stocks to taste like anything.
Also @Syd@lemm.ee and @Zizzy@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Just buy beans.
Stop pointing the finger at anyone but yourself.
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That’s awful! I hope one day your situation improves. That sounds so difficult. (Bc this is the internet, have to clarify: not sarcastic!)
Well, beef is already so damn expensive that I can’t remember the last time we bought it.
Meat-wise It’s just been a steady cycle of chicken, turkey, and pork at our house
I had no idea we were so environmentally avant-garde
You’re not avantgarde. Veganism is a thing.
Good on you!
When my wife and I started being conscious about our food intake, it wasn’t too bad to give up red meat, and shrink meat portions / add veggies.
It took us months of learning / trying new recipes to actually get to the point where we were consistently eating fewer than 14 meat-centric meals a week (lunch/dinner). Once we got comfortable cooking plant based dishes though, we had built up so much momentum that we went from 1 or 2 plant based meals a week to 100% in just a few weeks.
It takes a long time to build up that comfort level, but at some point a switch just flips and the new “normal” is just as easy as what you were used to.
We’ve cut way back on meat as well, though part of it for me honestly was the environmental impact. The only time we have beef is on special occasions and not at home (so a couple of times a year). Our main proteins are chicken (domestic), seafood, pork (split between domestic and Canadian depending upon what’s available), and tofu in probably roughly that order. We have other sources of protein as well, but I think of those as the “mains” as it were.
The article barely touches on fish. It suggests fish, eggs, and dairy are mostly fine, but doesn’t explicitly say that.
Dairy has the same problems as beef. Remember, you also have to grow food to feed the food, so it’s inherently a net loss of calories.
And on the animal ethics side dairy is often considered worse - forced endless cycle of birth and separation of mothers from their calves, most calves slaughtered. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows just because you aren’t eating the corpses.
The most important part: what went into the calculation? There are plenty of things besides food that impact environmental sustainability, is diet alone sufficient to achieve it? Or did they just throw the rest out?
Has any society in human history been able to afford eating meat regularly? My great great great great grandfather’s journals talk about a lot of stew and veggies and he was wealthy enough that he founded a small city. We never ate that much meat.
Subsidies and very, very cruel industrialization (torturous conditions).
If laws were just and corporate socialism was just, it wouldn’t be possible for most people.
Yes, Inuit for example have a diet largely based on fish and meat. Steppe herders like mongols are another example of a culture with regular meat consumption.
Medieval Barcelona had a higher meat consumption than today. The article also gives other examples of high meat consumption from medieval England and Vikings.
Let’s be honest about how unrealistic it is to expect people to voluntarily adhere to this. We need large scale lab meat asap
What if I told you we already have beans…
What if I told you beans don’t taste like pork ribs? I love beans, but these things are not substitutes for one another, and insisting they are isn’t going to make anyone become vegan.
Beans are definitely a better substitute for rotting, tortured animal flesh.
I agree, but that argument doesn’t do anything for people who don’t really care about the animals’ suffering if it means they get to enjoy meat. They understand what they’re doing and have made the informed choice that they’re okay with the arrangement. If you want them to stop torturing animals you’re going to have to find them another way to get meat or you’re going to have to kill them.
I’m not talking about forward thinking rational people like us. I’m talking about selfish everypersons that want to barbeque on the weekends and watch football eating chicken wings. We need to give them sensible substitutes or they won’t change.
BBQs are easy
Here’s a tomato, mushroom, bell pepper, onion, 10 Cobb’s of corn, and a stack of black bean burgers.
Done.
Look I know your heart is in the right place, but there are a lot of people that straight up won’t touch vegan substitutes unless other options are unavailable. And even then they might just leave the barbeque or eat chips if there’s no burgers/brats. You’re not trying to convince me, you’re trying to convince my uncle in Wisconsin.
I just gave you a pile of burgers.
Non vegans eat vegan food all the time. Jusy don’t tell them the chips and the salsa are vegan.
Oh god no.
Look at how much we fucked up natural meat with all the hormones and feed. Lab grown meat must be cheaper to make to compete with it, so imagine how atrocious the quality of it will be, from both health and nutrition perspective.
The problem is that people won’t give up personal luxuries for some vague ‘save the planet’ cause. This is simple fact. The only way to satisfy people’s desire for meat and the planet’s ecological balance is production of artificial meat.
If you don’t think it’ll have the best texture or nutritional value, then that’s fine. Do you think the people getting McDonald’s cares about those things?
Do you think the people getting McDonald’s cares about those things?
I’d rather not fed slab to the masses, thank you. Not only for ethical reasons, but also for monetary ones.
I’m all for the French model where they are taught (and given time and money) to consume healthy food. It’s the only Western nation where the obesity rate is low AND decreasing.
A quick search (meaning I did not dig into it because it’s very hard to read tables on mobile) shows that France has about one third the rate of veganism compared to the global population, and a quarter of the US rate. (I chose the US because they’re the poster child for obesity.) While they may be healthy, they’re still eating meat.
While they may be healthy, they’re still eating meat.
Yes. How could it be otherwise?
I don’t really understand how you can think meat consumption is necessary for health and also be against lab-grown meat. Is there some other way you have in mind to address environmental and ethical concerns? It doesn’t really help to survive today if doing so means extinction later from climate change.
This isn’t a binary thing (eat only meat, eat no meat at all).
Eat less meat of good quality is the way. How is that something you don’t understand is beyond me.
meat consumption is necessary for health
There are statistical studies after studies that show that pure vegetarian diet require very careful planing long term, and there are no studies of long term strictly vegan diet. Humans evolved eating lean meat, how suddenly removing all of meat based produce from our diet could be healthy long term?
Look at the current obesity pandemics that steams from us messing up with what we eat, ultra processed foods etc. I can’t even imagine what would lab grown meat do to us, as it would be even worse slob.
What about people that don’t eat pork?
I guess you can have 255 grams of poultry
Or veggies. Veggies are always nice.
#FreeTheRedMeat
It’s funny to think that you need communism for this kind of figure to mean anything.
Meanwhile, carnivore diet retards exist.
did they already publish an article beforehand on how many eggs are sustainable?
or have they solved the age-old riddle?
The answer is zero
Dry ass nasty chicken breast. I’d rather some veggies, but it this allows BP to keep pumping oil into the Gulf then I guess it’s fine.
