If I was Canadian I’d want my government to be handing out fpv drones like they were candy to train up my population to fight a modern conflict
Edit: also, ied building and placement training
I’m Canadian and I don’t trust 50% of people here to know how to operate a shopping cart competently.
You are delusional.
Cool
Plus thousands of kilometres of wilderness border, built in disguise, cultural mastery, and lootable weapons all over the place.
Don’t worry, America. We’ll come to you too.
“How many times have the Jays won the Pennant?”
Sure, sure, great ideas there. National security being of utmost importance, let’s also burn down all the trees within 50km of the border, replace them with poison ivy, and pre-emptively nuke the tar sands to remove one incentive to invade and show we’re not afraid to use the power of the bomb.
Here is the thing. Ukraine has, or could easily within weeks have, nuclear capability (they were actually instrumental in developing Russia’s nuclear capability, and they still have the infrastructure, knowledge, and skills) and that is actually to their detriment. It only promotes a ‘first strike’ mentality in the Russians.
The land border between Canada and the US is just too long for either side to defend.
But here is the thing. The only way the American army could have the resources to do it would be through the National Guard. American forces are spread too thin throughout the world. The National Guard is under the control of the individual state.
The biggest states would be well prepared to sign non-aggression treaties with Canada, meaning their National Guard could not be used. The individual States can not directly sign a treaty, but they CAN prevent their National Guard from participating. If Trump tried to take charge of them, it would for sure lead to a Constitutional Crisis. Since the Commander-in-Chief of the National Guard Units is the governor of each state, not the President, the troops are only answerable to the chain of command that ends at the state level. The individual states would have all the reason they need to secede. It would be civil war second inning in America. And some National Guard units have their own fighter jets and air bases.
That chaos is Canada’s best bet for defense.
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You are definitely NOT a military strategist. And you seem to know almost nothing about Canadian Geography. Or wind currents. The predominant wind direction takes all of the radioactivity and dumps in right in the middle of America. America becomes a radioactive waste land. So no nukes. But to use drones? Do you have an inkling of an idea how BIG Canada is, and how small even the largest 500 pound bomb is? There are not enough conventional weapons in the entire WORLD to ‘lay waste’ to Canada.
Canada would survive, the US not so much.
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Read the headline. Your insulting, demeaning post is not welcome. It is contrary to the rules of Lemmy. If you have to resort to personal insults, you do not seem to have much to contribute.
During WWII the soviets moved all their important factories to Siberia.
Maybe move at least one or two of your strategic assets more than 50 miles from the border?
Edmonton approves this message.
Nukes? Canada needs to close the Eldritch horror gap.
A very reasonable position. I for one supoort this wholeheartedly. Sensible civilian firearms laws support in a symbiotic way the Canadian military. A wider body of markmens who maintain profficiency after service. It also supports a domestic small arms industry that can switch to military small arms when needed and pivot back. Canadian jobs, serving Canadian defense, using Canadian materials. It’s also an export market.
I love the idea of 2 years mandatory military or civil service. Around the end of high school. Engagement, development and readiness of a much wider spectrum of society in common service to each other. There are very very few downsides.
Edit: I’m also a strong proponent of nukes. Nothing outrageous. Just a minimum viable second strike capability like the UK. Just enough to tell hungry eyes to fuck off and look elsewhere.
There are very, very many downsides to mandatory enlistment. Fuck that to hell and back. I will never use a gun in service of a state, nor perform any other function in support of the military of a state. Let alone fucking nukes??? What is the point in resisting a military state if we create our own at home anyway?? So that we hang a red and white flag over the bodies of dead 18 year olds who had literally no fucking choice in going to war and dying for nothing? I genuinely can’t tell if you’re joking or not.
I see you’re trans. I’m trans too - and if a foreign power like a fascist America comes to bring us “freedom” I sure as hell am picking up gun if I’m fit to, or whatever else is needed. It doesn’t have to be in service of a state, what about your community?? Pacifism is such a bullshit ideology.
You seem to have missed the part where I’m an anarchist. Never said I was anti gun nor a pacifist. I am not having a gun pointed at my head and telling me to pick up a gun and march to the orders of a military. I would absolutely defend my community, i am also not being compelled by force into the service of a national military. Nobody should be obligated by force to participate in a war.
What happened to all the anti-authoritarians in the “fuck China” thread from the other day? I guess when it’s Canadian authoritarianism it’s good??
k.
We’re ideological allies in so far as defending queer rights. Even in so far as being willing to personally involve myself in defending them, little that someone of my physiology can do. That isn’t the same thing as conscription though.
Military OR CIVIL service. Reading isn’t for everyone.
I will never use a gun in service of a state, nor perform any other function in support of the military of a state.
Wanna give it another read through?
Civil: /sĭv′əl/
adjective Of, relating to, or befitting a citizen or citizens. “civil duties.” Of or relating to citizens and their interrelations with one another or with the state. “government agencies concerned with civil affairs.” Of ordinary citizens or ordinary community life as distinguished from the military or the ecclesiastical. “married in a civil ceremony at city hall.” The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik
Does not change my response. I’m an anarchist. I am and will always be resolutely opposed to all forms of involuntary servitude especially those ones which obligate you into the service of a military.
Also only a few countries offer a truly non-military community service. Most civil service involves supportive efforts towards the military.
What a weird response. Primary and secondary education are mandatory for everyone in Canada. This is mandatory CIVIC service. High School in many provinces have mandatory volunteerism in your community. E.g. Ontario requires 40 hours of volunteering.
We’re proposing 2 years additional paid service. Think of it like adding 2 years coop program. Not entirely unlike Cégep in QC, but not in the classroom, but in the workplace. Each individual could pick their program. Military service would be one possibility where THOSE WHO WILLINGLY CHOOSE IT are basically a fulltime Canadian Forces Reservist, or a newly formed Civil Defense unit for their coop term.
For conscientious objectors like you, you can select CIVIL service. Could be in daycares, nursing homes, hospitals, agriculture, homebuilding, care for the homeless, addiction treatment, filling potholes, disaster relief, tree planting, maintaining national or provincial parks, forest firefighting, disaster relief, any number of government projects etc…
No one is asking you to pick up a gun. No one is asking you to fight. No one is asking you to wear a uniform or get a haircut. Your assignment is chosen by you subject to qualifications and availability/demmand of the role. Like Katimavik, it could also be an opportunity to travel to another province and learn more and experience all that Canada is. Your time is paid so you are not a slave.
This is a win/win proposition.
Hiding behind calling yourself an anarchist, while enjoying the rights and freedoms of Canadian democracy is hypocritical. If you want to live your values you could try moving to any number of failed states and lawless lands. I hear Mogadishu is lovely in the spring.
Education has direct benefits for literally every single aspect of society. It also is flawed in Canada and serves a large part in the means by which working class people are indoctrinated into nationalism and anti-socialist and anti-revolutionary politics.
Civil service is only a thing in select countries. The majority of countries that have mandatory enlistment do NOT ALLOW you to participate in any kind of service that isn’t directly associated with the military. I am not a conscientious objecter, I am an anti-statist anarchist, and I am against involuntary servitude in every single way that it exists. I have no moral qualms about violence being used to further the well-being of the working class. I am anti nationalist in every single possible way and absolutely resolutely opposed to the draft. You’re never going to get me to believe that compelling anyone UNDER THREAT OF STATE VIOLENCE to PERFORM LABOR is morally justifiable or beneficial. The draft was the beginning point of many aspects of the modern workers’ rights movement. It is wrong no matter where it shows up. One of the most abhorrent aspects of society is the military. I’m a woman, have a look sometime at how often women get r*ed while in the military.
I’d happily pick up a gun. I am pro-gun ownership. I am anti military in every single conceivable way. Absolutely I would shoot nazis if they came here and I had weapons with which to shoot them. But no, a thousand times I will never join a military. It is indefensible to force civilians under threat of state violence into involuntary servitude. It definitionally isn’t voluntary. It’s wrong, wrong in every single way.
To your last bit, typical of anti working class conservatives like yourself. What’s your response to native communities? Do you think that native Canadians should be forced under threat of state violence to join the Canadian military or otherwise be forced to do involuntary labor for the Canadian state?
I am living my values. My values are anti authoritarianism and pro workers rights. You clearly don’t even know what anarchists are. Every major workers’ rights movement in history has had large participation by anarchists. Anarchists are the ones who fought back against Stalinists in Spain and Ukraine. Anarchists were the primary force behind the workers’ rights revolutions at the end of the 19th century. My anarchist beliefs are foundationally a part of my beliefs in the safety and well-being of working class people. I am not an egotistic isolationist. I am saying that categorically pointing a gun at someone and forcing them to do something is wrong. It’s always wrong. Threatening violators with prison time is wrong. The draft is wrong, and it is one of the best parts about this country that we do not have one.
They seem to be proposing the sort of normal military service that used to be fairly common, although exactly universal in peacetime. The sort of marksmaship that they’re describing exists even in countries with strict gun control like South Korea, Germany and Britain. It pays off in spades in cases where war comes home and civilians must be relied upon to defend against invasion.
Some of the European countries phased their mandatory conscription programs out as recently as the 90’s-00’s, and it’s maybe not the ones you might first assume who had them in the first place - the Danes, Swedes, Finns, the Swiss, etc. Others still have conscription in case of war, but that’s not so unusual at all, and may not mean front-line posts for many who’re unfit for the duty for one reason or the other.
Many roles in a nation’s military are far from the front, everything from administrative, intelligence analysis, supplies and warehousing, medical roles - there’s a pretty wide spread of tasks beyond holding a gun and firing it at your nation’s enemies.
Yes, and I also think that it is wrong in all of those places, too. South Korea is one of the worst countries in the world in terms of the rights and equality of its citizens. It is also a turbo capitalist military state. Yes, I absolutely think it’s wrong there, too.
I’m an anarchist. I’m anti involuntary servitude in all it’s forms and I will never be a part of the military or perform duties in support of one. I would own a gun for my own sake, for the sake of my family and my community, but I will absolutely never be an agent of state violence. There is no room whatsoever for accommodation here. This would be a fucking nightmare scenario.
It’s a laudable philosophical stance, but if you’re eligible for conscription in whatever country you call home, you’d better have a fallback plan, a cache of supplies, and place to hide out before fleeing the country in times of war. Armies don’t fuck around with that shit, they’ll either jail or execute able-bodied people refusing military service. Best of luck to you.
Good thing our country doesn’t have a draft. And I will absolutely fight back with all that I have against one. If it comes to it they can shoot me. It’s get shot by fascists or get shot by authoritarians. I’ll live openly and proudly no matter who points a gun at me.
I am not advocating. However, we should all understand that there are many countries with mandatory military service that do not use them in war.
In addition to military preparedness and defence, it can be an opportunity for greater citizen engagement and to significantly invest in training and skills. This has social and economic benefits beyond war.
Sweden has mandatory military service. How many wars have they started in your lifetime.
Again, not taking a position. Just pointing out that mandatory military service does not have to translate into young men in body bags.
I’m anti authoritarian, and that necessarily includes compulsory enlistment. We can also invest in training and skill development without forcing people under threat of state violence to join a military. I am also opposed to the draft no matter where it is still practiced. Anti-draft riots were some of the earliest workers rights movements.
I just see a lot of our military not being into invading Canada. There is a lot of gray space between aggressively applying 100% to a mission and outright desertion. As a person who’s spent a career in the military - I don’t really know about the infantry-based guys, but the people I served with are not simple order-following automatons - regardless of oathes to follow orders…doing the wrong thing is doing the wrong thing.
Maybe I’m out to lunch, but I’d bet there would suddenly be a lot of broken equipment, and a lot of injured personnel, along with a demand that the children of our political leadership, be among the first of the “cannon-fodder” and “bullet-cushions” to cross into “enemy” territory. I’d also bet that you could say goodbye to our all-volunteer military recruitment numbers. Logistics would likely be another nightmare, as our civilian population would likely have to be violently forced to allow the military use of the roads to transport themselves north. Unlike our previous military campaigns and wars, where Allied ports were made available to mass our troops and supplies, there would be no friendly ports outside our own borders.
I’m not saying it couldn’t be done - our military is larger than the next 13 largest militaries combined, after all. I’m suggesting that between the troubles of invasions in themselves, we’d also be dealing with near civil war conditions within our own borders, massive resignations of key people, desertions & AWOLs, protests and civil disobedience, equipment sabotage, and voluntary military ascession falling off a cliff.
There are plenty of military members who would absolutely, with full faith and dedication, follow any order given to them. I’m sure that there are at least some members of our military who (for some reason) would love to invade Canada. But between the domestic troubles, the half-hearted effort of those who would appear to be participating, and the pain of going to war in the first place. Nah, trump is just sabre rattling…it won’t happen.
I think the one thing you’re missing is the American lies. The dehumanization of the opposition. The propaganda. I don’t think that the whole country will fall for it like they did with Bush, and it’s not like we have a MORE charismatic leader to sell it this time. But AI generated content and bots selling the lies are unfortunately going to convince a lot of people, we’re already seeing it. With a leader that is trying to litigate what higher institutions teach and destroying the public education system, the longer that this wears on, the dumber and dumber the electorate becomes. Military leaders not kissing the leader’s ring are already being removed from their posts to be replaced with sycophants.
I hope you’re right that there would be rebellion from within the military, and without. Otherwise, we have no friends left and every country on the planet has is justified in rising to the challenge to crush our new axis powers.
You make great points, but some of the dehumanizing advantages used in the Middle East would me much less affective here…Canadians are just north of us, and not on the other side of the world. Their customs, traditions, religions, and holidays are similar to ours, and they look just like us. I’d bet that a good number of Americans have Canadian relatives. I live in VA, and my neighbors wife has dual US/Canadian citizenship, as she’s originally from Canada.
I’m originally from Erie, PA - going up to Niagara Falls was a regular day trip we’d do several times per year. Funny enough, I’ve never been to the American side of the falls. I’ve seen it grow from a destination where you could simply parallel park your car next to the railing looking over the falls, to the tourist trap destination it is today.
The good thing about the education system is that no matter how they try to defend and dumb it down, our people still have to compete with the global, population. We can’t import all of our mental talent. Schoolmaster the only place where people gain an education. Kids are smart, resilient, and can often see past the ill-will of adults, no matter how many toys and candies they have.
The great thing about trump may be that he’s so fucking terrible, that he may end up pushing people (voters) to make better, more sensible decisions at the voting booth, more than any other politician possibly can. What he’s doing, is not only about values, ideas, and hate anymore. He’s actually affecting the bank accounts and livelihood of the people who voted for him, and nothing about any of his policies will result in them not being damaged in at least some way. He is so fucking terrible that he may actually be the catalyst to snap the US out of this “conservative populist march towards fascism.”
I certainly agree with you here - all of the fascists of history were HIGHLY effective leaders that actually got shit done. The people lived with it because they did what they said they would do. Instead, this disfunctional band of morons can’t seem to get a single thing done without a cavalcade of unforced errors and fuck ups.
Oops, we deported the wrong guy. Oops, we fired the folks managing our nuclear arsenal. Oops, we fired ATC during a preexisting ATC shortage. Oops, we sent a letter to Harvard earlier than we meant to, and forced our own hand. Oops, tariffs tanked the world economy, they’re paused! No wait, they’re back on now! Paused again! Well, we’ll make an exception for semiconductors though. Except we never said that? No exception! And now oops, someone caught us exfiltrating all government secrets and data to Russia.
This is the source of my own hope. They’re so incompetent and so stupid, execute every plan so poorly… that I find it hard to believe that the American people can ignore it for much longer. Even his racist, Nazi base can’t ignore him ruining their lives too.
Him ruining the lives of his racist, nazi base is our best hope…they don’t do facts, data, common sense, or believe their eyes over the voices of the talking heads on their favorite news networks.
Article does usual “values based” gaslighting for alliances. Western democracies are the most corrupt governments in the world and use “liberal values supremacism” for colonial servitude to US, and supremacist war/genocide/diminishment of “those who are less liberal”. We are exhalted as democracies only when we fully serve US empire ambitions.
Gaslighting in Europe right now is conflating Russophobia evil with US threats. Meloni comes to the white house to promote united western nationalism. US negotiating tact for temporarily withdrawing unjustified attacks/threats is to unite on loser Chinese warmongering, and European demonism, which Canada aligns with, would trade everything for war on Russia, even if it means the US not paying a dime/drop for our suicide, and gaining weapon sales. The desperation to return to US subservience among western puppet leaders is extreme. Gaslighting anger for a bit, isn’t just transparently PP and Daniele Smith.
Before forced military service is discussed, cutting off US weapons purchases and NORAD presence is needed. Russophobia/Sinophobia/Islamophobia US servitude, explicit western nationalism instead of liberal supremacism essentially identical basis for warmongering needs to be deprogrammed. A nuclear umbrella from China, Russia, North Korea is just as useful as a “flakey one” from Europe where which mentally disturbed demonic Russophobia gaslighting is the clear focus as a response to US attack, and whose members commitment to evil is stronger than resistance to submission to US empire that got them elected in the first place.
Trade alignment with all of Asia has to be a threat to US extortion/market restrictions. We can’t assume Europe is reliable, even if the best relations possible with them are pursued. A certain consequence of US plan to divide world into US and China blocks creates exponential risk of global war in which US block loses, but where US madness prefers global destruction.
