Blaming Nader for the Supreme Court handing the election to the Bush Dynasty is the kind of thinking that paralyzed American politics on the “left.” Nader spent his career working to help the people.
Bush having the governor of the deciding state be his brother and having the Supreme Court in his pocket sealed that election.
Democrats should win every election by massive landslides. Instead, they spent the last several decades bowing to billionaires and providing controlled opposition that suppressed any actual reform.
The illusion of choice between neoliberals morphed into fascism, and it’s now difficult to discern neoliberals from fascists. They have the same interests: Big number goes up for billionaires; nothing else matters.
As a reminder, Chief Justice John Roberts as well as Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Justice Amy Coney Barrett all worked the hanging chads case on the side of Bush.
The fact that people still blame Nader instead of the fucks who literally owe their positions to being on the case is such a joke. Like, why does anyone think these pricks ended up Justices? Because they helped steal an election in 2000.
I looked at the totals for the 2000 election and found that, had every Nader voter instead voted for Gore, there would have been only two states that would have flipped:
Florida, by a tally of 2,912,790 Bush to 3,009,741.
New Hampshire, which would have been 273,559 Bush to 288,546 Gore.
Now, it’s entirely possible we still get the ratfucking from SCOTUS and they still throw the state to Bush. But New Hampshire had 4 electoral votes, and had they gone for Gore then it would have been 267 Bush - 270 President Gore.
Bush won because 22,198 people in NH didn’t understand that voting for a third-party only hurts the major party that most closely aligns with your ideals.
Having only two major parties and “winner takes it all” elections is a shit system and it was doomed to fail. You can’t force people to vote for “the lesser of two evils” forever. That’s not how a democracy is supposed to work. Especially if neither of the major parties allign with your ideals. Of course the consequences of this non-compliance are dire but it was inevitable.
Having only two major parties and “winner takes it all” elections is a shit system and it was doomed to fail (…) That’s not how a democracy is supposed to work.
I agree. And yet, it’s what we have (well…)
Especially if neither of the major parties allign with your ideals. Of course the consequences of this non-compliance are dire but it was inevitable.
That right there is the crux of the issue. It is mathematically certain that the US electoral system, as it is now, will result in two parties. And it is equally certain because of that fact that voting for anyone other than one of those two party candidates will result in helping the other candidate. Knowing this, a responsible voter should decide to support whichever party most closely aligns with their values, because otherwise they’re helping the major party they lease align with win instead.
If you agree with the Dems on one issue, and agree with the GOP on zero issues, you should still vote for the Dems in the general election.
The fact that you’re more angry at those 22.198 people than the fact that our election system has been a broken joke since long before the year 2000 and continues to be a broken joke because of the undemocratic Electoral College is kind of pathetic.
Why aren’t you mad about that? Instead you’re mad at a group of citizens whose only power is their vote, while Senators and House Representatives who could have done something to change us to a better system have done fuck-all in decades.
Further, why aren’t you mad that the Supreme Court stole the election? And then rewarded the people who worked the case with their own Supreme Court seats? Or are you just fine with open corruption and prefer to blame people with no power?
EDIT: Oh, also a reminder, Gore won the popular vote by over 500,000 votes. But keep sucking up to this broken dead worthless system that ignores the popular will of the people. Stay mad at hose 22,000 people I guess, because that totally makes fucking sense.
EDIT II: Damn I really triggered a bunch of bitches who don’t want to wish for a better world but want to instead make excuses for why this one should keep sucking.
The fact that you’re more angry at those 22.198 people than the fact that our election system has been a broken joke since long before the year 2000 and continues to be a broken joke because of the undemocratic Electoral College is kind of pathetic.
It’s possible to be mad at both of those things… over and over… every fucking election cycle.
Every election cycle there is a non zero number of people that get tricked into voting against their own best interest. That’s a valid thing to call out and be angry about.
Just because that commenter pointed that out doesn’t mean he doesn’t also get angry about all the other things you’re “whatabouting” about.
Holy shit my dude, calm the fuck down. I neither expressed any agreement nor disagreement with the facts, and you’re just making baseless assumptions about how I feel about them.
No, I am not “more angry” at the Green voters than I am at insert whatever reason you think was the most important contributor to Gore’s loss you want here. But it is ridiculous to assume they (you?) share no part of the blame for Gore’s loss, when it’s demonstrable that in fact they bear some amount. Also I find it amusing you’re telling me who I should be mad at and you never once mentioned the Republicans who voted for Bush.
Did SCOTUS make a bad ruling? Abso-fucking-lutely they did. But you know what? If NH had gone to Gore SCOTUS wouldn’t have even mattered.
Does our system suck? Abso-fucking-lutely it does. You can rant and rave all day about how unfair and undemocratic it is, and how much it needs to change and I’ll spend all day agreeing with you. But the difference between us is, I recognize that voting is a tactical decision, not an emotional one. I don’t particularly like the Democrats, probably for many of the same reasons you would list. I vote for them in the general election, however, because I understand that not doing so helps Republicans win. Again, this is literal demonstrable fact. And I agree with the Dems on a hell of a lot more than I do with the GOP.
edit: also the popular vote literally doesn’t matter. Source: non-Presidents Gore and Clinton.
I’m not even exaggerating when I say that every single discussion that I’ve had on this site about this topic has ended the same exact way: with a straw man and/or whataboutism. It’s all they have.
Liberals always try to justify voting for literal genocidaires, over the left demanding something for their ever increasingly important vote, by couching their arguments in the vestments of logic and game theory.
You know, without a mathematical background.
And then they fucking butcher it because the argument they put fourth is from week one of a 101 entry level game theory class.
To put it another way:
You’re tactically voting and losing the war when you need to be voting strategically.
That involves the left demanding things for their view, and the right that has stayed in power in the DNC, through cheating, giving some up.
Meanwhile, dumb people that like to feel smart justify demanding the left give up power for free while holding those in power to absolutely no accountability.
Democrats should win every election by massive landslides. Instead, they spent the last several decades bowing to billionaires and providing controlled opposition that suppressed any actual reform.
And now I no longer hear “vote blue, no matter who” slogan since Chuck Schumer helped the Republicans pass on the budget bill.
The neoliberals use the slogan to condition people to accept the false dichotomy of having to always choose the “lesser evil”, and make voters complacent from pressuring their representatives.
"If it wasn’t for Nader, Al Gore would’ve been our president. So he can fuck all the way off."
🔍 Step 1: Emotional Noise Filter
This claim is loaded with emotional intensity:
It uses blame-framing (“because of Nader”) and moral outrage (“he can fuck all the way off”).
This is outrage induction, not just opinion — it presents Nader’s candidacy as not only consequential, but morally unforgivable.
🛑 Distortion Detected → Emotional Persuasion: The tone demands rejection of a person based on an emotionally charged version of a historical what-if.
📌 Let’s neutralize the distortion using the [[Framing Neutralizer (FN)]]:
Framed as: “Nader’s candidacy ruined everything, therefore he deserves total dismissal.”
Reframed neutrally: “Some analysts believe Ralph Nader’s third-party run in 2000 may have affected the outcome of the election. The debate remains contentious.”
Notice how that removes emotional judgment and loaded blame, but preserves the subject.
🔎 Step 2: Relevance Check
Is this still a meaningful claim today?
In political history discussions: yes — it’s a key moment often cited when discussing third-party impact.
In personal outrage: less so, unless the speaker is still emotionally processing the 2000 election.
So we ask: is this a political analysis or a grudge statement?
🧩 Step 3: Clarity & Precision Test
Let’s try a mini Precision Breakdown (PB):
Core Assertion: Nader’s candidacy caused Al Gore to lose.
Supporting Evidence?: This is debated. Nader got 97,000 votes in Florida; Bush won by ~500. But...
Missing Context?: Gore lost his home state (Tennessee). The Supreme Court intervened. Ballot design confusion (butterfly ballot) also played a role.
Perception Impact: Frames one person as solely responsible — simplifies a complex, multi-factor event.
🧭 Bottom Line via Clarity Compass (CC):
Direction Assessment
Truth Check Partially grounded in historical fact
Evidence Check Lacks full context or causal certainty
Context Check Oversimplifies election outcome factors
Impact Check High emotional impact, blame-focused framing
🪞 Reframed for Clarity:
“There’s debate over whether Nader’s 2000 campaign affected Gore’s loss — but blaming him alone ignores other pivotal factors, like the Supreme Court decision, ballot issues in Florida, and Gore’s loss of key states.”
You’re not wrong. But at this point I’ll take all the allies I can get. Anybody who’s willing to stand the fuck up (looking at you, Nader, Bernie, AoC, Walz, Booker) earns a ton of forgiveness for past misdeeds.
And honestly, when I think of about just how badly Harris shit the bed, and how much she and Biden failed the American people, I can bring myself to forgive Nader.
If Al Gore had gotten out of the way, Nader could have been our president. And where exactly has Al Gore been lately? Did you read Naders post? He makes a lot of good points. Where the eff are the respected leaders on the dem side. They are all doing nothing.
If Al Gore had gotten out of the way, Nader could have been our president. And where exactly has Al Gore been lately? Did you read Naders post? He makes a lot of good points. Where the eff are the respected leaders on the dem side. They are all doing nothing.
I’m sorry, this has to be satire right? Or are you just 12 years old or something?
This kind of circular firing squad bull shit is exactly why American liberals get their ass kicked in almost every election. So busy blaming each other instead of the people that actually elected the moron in charge. What happened to big tent?
If it wasn’t for you, Nader, Al Gore would’ve been our president. So you can fuck all the way off.
Blaming Nader for the Supreme Court handing the election to the Bush Dynasty is the kind of thinking that paralyzed American politics on the “left.” Nader spent his career working to help the people.
Bush having the governor of the deciding state be his brother and having the Supreme Court in his pocket sealed that election.
Democrats should win every election by massive landslides. Instead, they spent the last several decades bowing to billionaires and providing controlled opposition that suppressed any actual reform.
The illusion of choice between neoliberals morphed into fascism, and it’s now difficult to discern neoliberals from fascists. They have the same interests: Big number goes up for billionaires; nothing else matters.
As a reminder, Chief Justice John Roberts as well as Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Justice Amy Coney Barrett all worked the hanging chads case on the side of Bush.
The fact that people still blame Nader instead of the fucks who literally owe their positions to being on the case is such a joke. Like, why does anyone think these pricks ended up Justices? Because they helped steal an election in 2000.
I looked at the totals for the 2000 election and found that, had every Nader voter instead voted for Gore, there would have been only two states that would have flipped:
Now, it’s entirely possible we still get the ratfucking from SCOTUS and they still throw the state to Bush. But New Hampshire had 4 electoral votes, and had they gone for Gore then it would have been 267 Bush - 270 President Gore.
Bush won because 22,198 people in NH didn’t understand that voting for a third-party only hurts the major party that most closely aligns with your ideals.
Having only two major parties and “winner takes it all” elections is a shit system and it was doomed to fail. You can’t force people to vote for “the lesser of two evils” forever. That’s not how a democracy is supposed to work. Especially if neither of the major parties allign with your ideals. Of course the consequences of this non-compliance are dire but it was inevitable.
You have to vote for the lesser of two evils in order to get a chance at changing the election system.
The GOP are trying to take away voting rights. Not the Dems.
I realize this sounds like false equivalence, but at this point, I do think it needs to be said:
When the lesser of two evils sleepwalks us into the greater of two evils, there’s no material difference between the lesser and greater of two evils.
I agree. And yet, it’s what we have (well…)
That right there is the crux of the issue. It is mathematically certain that the US electoral system, as it is now, will result in two parties. And it is equally certain because of that fact that voting for anyone other than one of those two party candidates will result in helping the other candidate. Knowing this, a responsible voter should decide to support whichever party most closely aligns with their values, because otherwise they’re helping the major party they lease align with win instead.
If you agree with the Dems on one issue, and agree with the GOP on zero issues, you should still vote for the Dems in the general election.
The fact that you’re more angry at those 22.198 people than the fact that our election system has been a broken joke since long before the year 2000 and continues to be a broken joke because of the undemocratic Electoral College is kind of pathetic.
Why aren’t you mad about that? Instead you’re mad at a group of citizens whose only power is their vote, while Senators and House Representatives who could have done something to change us to a better system have done fuck-all in decades.
Further, why aren’t you mad that the Supreme Court stole the election? And then rewarded the people who worked the case with their own Supreme Court seats? Or are you just fine with open corruption and prefer to blame people with no power?
EDIT: Oh, also a reminder, Gore won the popular vote by over 500,000 votes. But keep sucking up to this broken dead worthless system that ignores the popular will of the people. Stay mad at hose 22,000 people I guess, because that totally makes fucking sense.
EDIT II: Damn I really triggered a bunch of bitches who don’t want to wish for a better world but want to instead make excuses for why this one should keep sucking.
It’s possible to be mad at both of those things… over and over… every fucking election cycle.
Source: me.
Seriously, I fucking hate arguments like this. “Why are you mad about x and not y?” Bitch, I’m angry about both!
Why all the whataboutism?
Every election cycle there is a non zero number of people that get tricked into voting against their own best interest. That’s a valid thing to call out and be angry about.
Just because that commenter pointed that out doesn’t mean he doesn’t also get angry about all the other things you’re “whatabouting” about.
Holy shit my dude, calm the fuck down. I neither expressed any agreement nor disagreement with the facts, and you’re just making baseless assumptions about how I feel about them.
No, I am not “more angry” at the Green voters than I am at insert whatever reason you think was the most important contributor to Gore’s loss you want here. But it is ridiculous to assume they (you?) share no part of the blame for Gore’s loss, when it’s demonstrable that in fact they bear some amount. Also I find it amusing you’re telling me who I should be mad at and you never once mentioned the Republicans who voted for Bush.
Did SCOTUS make a bad ruling? Abso-fucking-lutely they did. But you know what? If NH had gone to Gore SCOTUS wouldn’t have even mattered.
Does our system suck? Abso-fucking-lutely it does. You can rant and rave all day about how unfair and undemocratic it is, and how much it needs to change and I’ll spend all day agreeing with you. But the difference between us is, I recognize that voting is a tactical decision, not an emotional one. I don’t particularly like the Democrats, probably for many of the same reasons you would list. I vote for them in the general election, however, because I understand that not doing so helps Republicans win. Again, this is literal demonstrable fact. And I agree with the Dems on a hell of a lot more than I do with the GOP.
edit: also the popular vote literally doesn’t matter. Source: non-Presidents Gore and Clinton.
This is the only “argument” these people have.
I’m not even exaggerating when I say that every single discussion that I’ve had on this site about this topic has ended the same exact way: with a straw man and/or whataboutism. It’s all they have.
Your usage of the word tactical is appropriate.
Liberals always try to justify voting for literal genocidaires, over the left demanding something for their ever increasingly important vote, by couching their arguments in the vestments of logic and game theory.
You know, without a mathematical background.
And then they fucking butcher it because the argument they put fourth is from week one of a 101 entry level game theory class.
To put it another way:
You’re tactically voting and losing the war when you need to be voting strategically.
That involves the left demanding things for their view, and the right that has stayed in power in the DNC, through cheating, giving some up.
Meanwhile, dumb people that like to feel smart justify demanding the left give up power for free while holding those in power to absolutely no accountability.
Always punching down.
lol yeah, only Florida.
And now I no longer hear “vote blue, no matter who” slogan since Chuck Schumer helped the Republicans pass on the budget bill.
I mean, vote blue, but primary the fuck out of people like that.
The neoliberals use the slogan to condition people to accept the false dichotomy of having to always choose the “lesser evil”, and make voters complacent from pressuring their representatives.
Truly nothing has changed in 20 years, huh? Still have morons who don’t understand first past the post and why we only have two parties.
🎭 Original Claim:
🔍 Step 1: Emotional Noise Filter
This claim is loaded with emotional intensity:
🛑 Distortion Detected → Emotional Persuasion: The tone demands rejection of a person based on an emotionally charged version of a historical what-if. 📌 Let’s neutralize the distortion using the [[Framing Neutralizer (FN)]]:
Notice how that removes emotional judgment and loaded blame, but preserves the subject. 🔎 Step 2: Relevance Check
Is this still a meaningful claim today?
So we ask: is this a political analysis or a grudge statement? 🧩 Step 3: Clarity & Precision Test
Let’s try a mini Precision Breakdown (PB):
🧭 Bottom Line via Clarity Compass (CC): Direction Assessment Truth Check Partially grounded in historical fact Evidence Check Lacks full context or causal certainty Context Check Oversimplifies election outcome factors Impact Check High emotional impact, blame-focused framing 🪞 Reframed for Clarity:
You’re not wrong. But at this point I’ll take all the allies I can get. Anybody who’s willing to stand the fuck up (looking at you, Nader, Bernie, AoC, Walz, Booker) earns a ton of forgiveness for past misdeeds.
And honestly, when I think of about just how badly Harris shit the bed, and how much she and Biden failed the American people, I can bring myself to forgive Nader.
Yep. Nader contributed directly to all this shit.
If Al Gore had gotten out of the way, Nader could have been our president. And where exactly has Al Gore been lately? Did you read Naders post? He makes a lot of good points. Where the eff are the respected leaders on the dem side. They are all doing nothing.
I’m sorry, this has to be satire right? Or are you just 12 years old or something?
This kind of circular firing squad bull shit is exactly why American liberals get their ass kicked in almost every election. So busy blaming each other instead of the people that actually elected the moron in charge. What happened to big tent?
We can’t possibly blame Republicans for ratfucking our country 50 years straight
That wasn’t the reason. Nader was a voice, not a driver
Wow that would have delayed the slide into Fascism by exactly 4 years.