Okay they’re being stupid about it (Trump is a liberal? C’mon) but they’re right. The ends do justify the means in this case, because Americans have repeatedly failed to get to these ends via any other means. If America won’t stop being imperialist, I’ll settle for them being incompetently imperialist thank you. I mean don’t get me wrong the best scenario is still for an anti-imperialist government to take power in America, but that doesn’t seem awfully likely.
You can only say “ends justify the means” if you can achieve the ends, otherwise you loose. The whole point of the saying is that the reaching the goal is the only important thing, how you get there does not matter. We’ll have to wait and see if the destination will be reached.
The whole point of the saying is that the reaching the goal is the only important thing, how you get there does not matter.
Actually, the whole point of the saying is that the ends do not justify the means. Not in that way, at least. Machiavelli was a much cooler person than people give him credit.
The prince who reaches his ends does not become justified in the moral sense of being proven right or just. They are not a ‘good’ person because they achieved their ends, even if the ends were noble.
They become justified in the sense of being absolved by society and not being held to account for their crimes.
In the actions of all men, and especially of princes, where there is no court to appeal to, one looks to the end. So let prince win and maintain his state: the means will always be judged honorable, and will be praised by everyone.
In other words, “The ends justify the means” does not mean “the end was worthy of the means.”
It means whoever wins in the end will not be held accountable for the means they used to get there.
That depends whether what rises from the ashes is better or worse for the entire planet.
I don’t know whether it’ll be better or worse, but either way it’ll be weaker. Assuming Trump has his way, it’ll be a long time—if ever—before America can throw its way around the world like it does today. The web of alliances (read: army of accomplices) it uses to bully the Global South into submission is irreparably broken.
The weird thing is you could probably describe the Republican party as liberal for most of their existence but not anymore certainly. Certainly not the last 10 years. Trump’s what killed that.
Okay they’re being stupid about it (Trump is a liberal? C’mon) but they’re right. The ends do justify the means in this case, because Americans have repeatedly failed to get to these ends via any other means. If America won’t stop being imperialist, I’ll settle for them being incompetently imperialist thank you. I mean don’t get me wrong the best scenario is still for an anti-imperialist government to take power in America, but that doesn’t seem awfully likely.
Liberalism isn’t just as defined by USA.
I can’t say yet the ends justify the means. That depends whether what rises from the ashes is better or worse for the entire planet.
You can only say “ends justify the means” if you can achieve the ends, otherwise you loose. The whole point of the saying is that the reaching the goal is the only important thing, how you get there does not matter. We’ll have to wait and see if the destination will be reached.
Actually, the whole point of the saying is that the ends do not justify the means. Not in that way, at least. Machiavelli was a much cooler person than people give him credit.
The prince who reaches his ends does not become justified in the moral sense of being proven right or just. They are not a ‘good’ person because they achieved their ends, even if the ends were noble.
They become justified in the sense of being absolved by society and not being held to account for their crimes.
In other words, “The ends justify the means” does not mean “the end was worthy of the means.”
It means whoever wins in the end will not be held accountable for the means they used to get there.
What he says is true though.
Morality is not a law of nature.
I’m not sure how what you said contradicts what I wrote.
Yes, thanks for rephrasing.
I don’t know whether it’ll be better or worse, but either way it’ll be weaker. Assuming Trump has his way, it’ll be a long time—if ever—before America can throw its way around the world like it does today. The web of alliances (read: army of accomplices) it uses to bully the Global South into submission is irreparably broken.
The weird thing is you could probably describe the Republican party as liberal for most of their existence but not anymore certainly. Certainly not the last 10 years. Trump’s what killed that.