• octopus_ink@slrpnk.netEnglish
    256·
    16 days ago

    Evangelicals Are Now Rejecting ‘Liberal’ Teachings of Jesus

    “Multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching’turn the other cheek’[and] to have someone come up after to say, ‘Where did you get those liberal talking points?’” Moore said.

    “When the pastor would say, ‘I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ’ … The response would be, 'Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak,” he added. “When we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we’re in a crisis.”

    • aviationeast@lemmy.world
      115·
      16 days ago

      And people dont understand why I say the orange clown is an Antichrist and may be the Antichrist.

      The doomed by a perfect circle is very disturbing accurate.

      • Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub
        11·
        16 days ago

        Ehh, isn’t the antichrist supposed to be a nearly impossibly attractive person, in charisma and looks? A lot of people either hate him or are entirely indifferent and the reasons don’t seem to be religiously motivated.

        I just settle with him being a douchebag.

        • philycheeze@sh.itjust.works
          21·
          16 days ago

          Don’t forgot about how all his weird followers depict him in their fan art though…. They seem to at least perceive him as exactly that.

        • greenskye@lemm.eeEnglish
          15·
          16 days ago

          This is still what baffles me. We aren’t losing our country to a charismatic, two faced mastermind. We’re losing our country to a fucking obvious loser. He’s literally so bad it’s hard to parody him since even the parodies are tame in comparison to what he actually does. It’s ridiculous

          • tamman2000@lemm.eeEnglish
            2·
            15 days ago

            Most people are not sharp enough to see that.

            We are doomed by the cuts to education they made 40 years ago

        • andros_rex@lemmy.world
          4·
          16 days ago

          isn’t the antichrist supposed to be a nearly impossibly attractive person

          Premillennial dispensationalism/rapture theology is a group creative writing exercise with little relevance to the text. The prophecies in Daniel refer to the Greek king Antiochus, which is clear when one reads chapters and not verses (unfortunately uncommon in your typical Protestant church…) Revelation is referring to emperor Nero.

          Really, it’s more that folks like Hal Lindsey popularized the concept by traumatizing children in church basements that’s given it the culture cachet.

        • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
          3·
          15 days ago

          As others have said, that part’s more modern. But also, look at what’s going on, a lot of people hate him, but he has some sort of charisma to draw so many people to lockstep with him.

          And one of the big things in revalations about the antichrist is that a lot of Christians will follow him because their faith is tainted and corrupted

      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
        4·
        15 days ago

        Yeah I’m not a Christian, and I know many Christians hate the “reasonable hope for salvation of righteous nonbelievers” thing, but I’ll say this, I’ve got a strong suspicion that if I’m wrong about the veracity of Christianity then Jesus will still prefer my behavior to the maga christians’

    • Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de
      80·
      16 days ago

      Prosperity gospel has been shitting on the red text of Christ for decades now.

      Jesus hated wealth inequality. The only group he said would never enter heaven were the wealthy (“easier to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven”, in other words, it isn’t possible for the rich to enter heaven). Jesus also violently flipped tables and whipped the wealthy to drive them out of temples.

      So conservative “Christians” abandoned the teachings of Christ many decades ago.

        • chaogomu@lemmy.world
          37·
          16 days ago

          The actual story of the money changers is worse than most people know.

          See, as part of their religious observance, the ancient Hebrews made a pilgrimage to the Temple. This was a mandatory part of their faith, much like the Hajj is for modern Muslims.

          Those who were too poor to bring their own sacrifice could buy one at the Temple, but the Temple didn’t take the coin of the realm (the Roman coins), they only accepted Shekels.

          So, the Money Changers. They set up in the Temple itself and were fleecing pilgrims of all their money.

          In comes Jesus, who flipped tables and broke out the whip, and less than a week later he was crucified.

          And this is the only part of the bible that I believe is 100% historically accurate. A peace loving Rabbi threw a fit over the Money Changers and was crucified for it.

          • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
            9·
            16 days ago

            I had understood it to be even worse:

            The sacrifices at the temple were expected to be pretty much perfect, and had to be found acceptable by the temple priests. So the merchants would get “pre-blessed” sacrifices that they would sell at exorbitant prices to the pilgrims, who would have the sacrifices they brought deemed “inadequate” by the priests.

            So if you brought an animal sacrifice, you’d still have to buy another (costly) animal. If you brought money, you’d be forced to exchange it at a significant loss.

            The whole thing was an obvious scam, and Jesus was killed over it (and the rest of his message). I don’t believe he was God Incarnate, but I’m still a big fan of Jesus the man.

            I’m pretty confident that all would have gone about the same way in this era.

        • spittingimage@lemmy.world
          14·
          16 days ago

          Yeah, it was the moneychangers and the stall keepers that tolerated them.

          It was a religious duty to contribute money for the upkeep of the temple. So people would come from out of town and try to hand over their cash and the priests would say “we can’t accept foreign coinage… go talk to that dude over there with the heavy pockets, he’ll help you”. And the moneychanger would convert their currency, but not without keeping a fat percentage for himself.

          The lesson (as I read it) is that setting yourself up as a gatekeeper and forcing people to pay you in order to do the right thing is an especially odious behaviour, even if it’s legal.

          • andros_rex@lemmy.world
            6·
            16 days ago

            Yeah - stuff we consider the canon was essentially wrapped up by about 100 CE.

            The gospels were likely individuals taking other written material that was circulating around the time, and making their own little compilation based on the theological points that they wanted to make.

            It’s really clear when you read the gospels and know the order. Mark was probably first, Matthew and Luke pull heavily from Mark and share something from something we call “Q” and maybe a “saying source.” Then John was written last.

            It’s really clear when you look at the differences between the scene where they go to get Jesus’s body. In Mark - it’s just a guy who tells them Jesus isn’t there. Matthew has an earthquake and an Angel, Luke has two angels, John has Jesus himself say hi. John is where you get the most “divine” Jesus - because it really does seem that at first Jesus was understood as a mortal man speaking for God, but later influences from Greek philosophy and thoughts about “spirit” slowly turned Jesus into God.

      • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
        4·
        16 days ago

        Visions of religious leaders sitting in golden chairs and crying out for donations…

        How did we get here? It’s not a mystery, it’s a cautionary tale.

      • futatorius@lemm.ee
        1·
        15 days ago

        easier to pass through the eye of a needle

        Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle…

        Some bootlickers go through ridiculous contortions to avoid the plain sense of this analogy: “The Eye of the Needle was a gate in Jerusalem!” (That excuse was a late medieval fabrication by an indulgence-selling cleric craving donations from aristocrats-- there’s no such gate and never was, and if there was one, the saying would make no sense).

    • Rhaedas@fedia.io
      31·
      16 days ago

      I guess we’re going to get more denominational splits based on if Jesus’ teachings about loving others is Biblically accurate. Yet another reason why he isn’t coming back.

      The real reason.

    • heavydust@sh.itjust.works
      135·
      16 days ago

      “I hate you guys, kill yourself” said Jesus probably during daylight saving time because he didn’t sleep enough.

      • FaceDeer@fedia.io
        35·
        16 days ago

        I’ve heard the distinction described as “it’s a cult when the founder is still around making stuff up, it becomes a religion after he dies and his followers are left to continue doing that in his name.”

        • IninewCrow@lemmy.caEnglish
          16·
          16 days ago

          I have as much authority as the Pope. I just don’t have as many people who believe it.

          George Carlin

      • Coil@lemmy.world
        18·
        16 days ago

        Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde. She asked Trump to have mercy for immigrants and pissed him off.

      • ...m...@ttrpg.network
        7·
        16 days ago

        …she’s an episcopalian bishop who led trump’s inaugural service, asking that he accept god’s humility and share his mercy with marginalised people who fear him, specifically naming genderqueer, immigrant, and refugee populations…

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
      4·
      15 days ago

      Every time I see that I’m so skeeved out. Like I understand needing to close your heart’s empathy to deceivers. It’s something I’ve had to do with abusers who play on pity. But this is language that you use to prepare people to do evil

      • jj4211@lemmy.world
        1·
        15 days ago

        Notably, I don’t think folks would consider Christian teaching would not explicitly declare that you should hate (that part is usually just implied).

        Generally what they say is that while you shouldn’t just yield and let “bad” people walk all over you and society, you shouldn’t “hate” them either.

    • Lileath
      3·
      15 days ago

      This sounds like Warhammer 40K flavour text. How can anyone write this and think that they are the good guy?

  • hungryphrog
    105·
    16 days ago

    “Thou shalt not even try to be a decent person”

    the 11th commandment I guess

  • edgemaster72@lemmy.worldEnglish
    75·
    16 days ago

    My sister once told my mom that empathy is what’s ruining this country. It’s not even like it was a misinterpretation/misunderstanding, that’s almost word for word how she said it. I can’t fathom how someone comes to that line of thinking.

    • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
      15·
      16 days ago

      I can tell you pretty easily but that won’t stop you from pretending to be surprised for internet points next time

      Conservative empathy is reserved only for close associations, it is a crisis management mode that modern doomteller media actively stokes with imaginary threats of immigrants and trans people so it is ALWAYS on

      In times of crisis, humanity’s generosity contracts as we have to do the cold calculations over limited resources and the fact that we do NOT value every person equally.

      Example: If I only had enough food for me and one other person, I would not give that food to a bigot because that food is better served in the belly of a progressive

      It’s just that they are triggered into this mode at all times and their circle of empathy is basically only family and friends, but deep down it is always only just them if times get hard enough

      You saw the same behavior in times of famine all across the world

        • Tiger666@lemmy.ca
          5·
          16 days ago

          He literally said this two weeks ago. " The death of the West is due to too much empathy." Paraphrased, of course.

  • MehBlah@lemmy.worldEnglish
    55·
    16 days ago

    Empathy is the enemy of the the manipulative. Their shallow and transparent manipulations wont get past someone with even a small amount of it.

    • untorquer@lemmy.world
      16·
      16 days ago

      True for some. Others specifically exploit your empathy by centering it on themselves, red herrings, or subverting the action it motivates.

  • GraniteM@lemmy.world
    52·
    16 days ago

    Proverbs 14:31 Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.

    Deuteronomy 15:7 If anyone is poor among your fellow Israelites in any of the towns of the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them.

    Luke 14:13-14 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.

    Luke 12:15: Then he said, “Beware! Guard against every kind of greed. Life is not measured by how much you own.”

    1 John 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

    1 John 3:17 But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?

    John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

    • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
      15·
      16 days ago

      Matthew 25 (separation of the sheep and the goats) is pretty much the only time Jesus straight-up threatens people with Hell, and he’s basing it on the treatment of the poor, sick, and social outcasts.

      • fossilesque@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        9·
        15 days ago

        Warning to Rich Oppressors

        5 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[a] 6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

        https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+5&version=NIV

    • ameancow@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      15 days ago

      A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

      Imagine if they just threw away the whole fucking book before this, we would have a better world.

      • GraniteM@lemmy.world
        3·
        15 days ago

        Turns out you can fit pretty much the entirety of Christian morality inside of a fortune cookie and the rest is just window dressing.

  • hansolo@lemm.eeEnglish
    43·
    16 days ago

    Remind me which level of Hell the hypocrites are in? Is it higher or lower than the one reserved for Jesus now?

  • Sterile_Technique@lemmy.worldEnglish
    34·
    16 days ago

    Hearing voices from people that aren’t real is a pretty serious mental condition. I’m convinced religion and all the evil committed on its behalf all just trace back to the root of shit mental healthcare.

    • tibi@lemmy.world
      21·
      16 days ago

      On a similar note, the old testament had a historical purpose - to unite disparate tribes and create a national identity against the threat posed by the Assyrian and Babylonian Empires.

      The new testament is just a collections of writings and letters. We have no idea who wrote them, they lied on the cover saying the texts are written by the apostles. And by a pretty arbitrary process, a bunch of priests picked their favorite writings and made them into a cannon.

      If the same thing happened today, nobody would believe them outside maybe a fringe cult.

    • CompostMaterial@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11·
      16 days ago

      Perhaps partly, my personal belief is the is traces back to early tribal days. I believe the first cultural leaders likely struggled with retaining control and authority at a certain point. After all, there is only so much you can threaten people with to keep them in like. The worse of which is death. A sufficiently motivated person may not care about their physical well-being if they want to achieve a important enough goal. Create an invisible “soul” and a space wizard that determines if that soul gets bliss or torture after death and it adds a new level of control.

      • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
        8·
        16 days ago

        Problem with that hypothesis is that pre modern people treated death very differently with in many places it was quite literal and physical, for example in ancient Germanic societies they thought of the underworld as someplace only the dead could travel to as in the actual corpses went to the underworld at night and returned to their grave during the day. Hell we can even see the ideas of the soul being refined during the Hellenic period with most philosophers settling on it being an “animating force” which is vague but about right with the ancient Greeks. The idea of the soul is probably relatively recent IE middle stone age at the earliest, and probably evolved out of far more ancient animistic traditions.

  • Trees@lemm.eeEnglish
    20·
    16 days ago

    With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

    Daniel 11:32

    He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior… He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.

    Daniel 8:25, 2 Thess 2:10

    … a despicable person will arise… a man of contempt… to whom the royal honor has not been rightfully conferred. He will slip in when least expected and will seize the kingdom through flattery and intrigue.

    Daniel 11:21

    After an alliance is made with him he will practice deception, and he will go up and gain power with a small force of people.

    Daniel 11:23

    He will try to change the set times and the laws.

    Dan. 7:25

      • igg@lemmy.world
        2·
        16 days ago

        That is just Daniel 8. Daniel 11 could reasonably be talking about modern times

          • Fluke@lemm.ee
            1·
            15 days ago

            Which is why some people still hold it up as a valuable text. It’s a well written book of scams to keep the ignorant masses in line.

            It is, in essence, a compilation of the vague shite that “fortune tellers” spew to the marks looking to be told what they want to hear.

        • andros_rex@lemmy.world
          1·
          15 days ago

          Not really, from context pretty sure it’s one of those “ex post facto” prophecy things.

          This is why people should read books of the Bible and not verse. Random bits out of context are used to imply so much BS.

          Now then, I tell you the truth: Three more kings will arise in Persia, and then a fourth, who will be far richer than all the others. When he has gained power by his wealth, he will stir up everyone against the kingdom of Greece. Then a mighty king will arise, who will rule with great power and do as he pleases. After he has arisen, his empire will be broken up and parceled out toward the four winds of heaven. It will not go to his descendants, nor will it have the power he exercised, because his empire will be uprooted and given to others.

          The king of the South will become strong, but one of his commanders will become even stronger than he and will rule his own kingdom with great power. After some years, they will become allies. The daughter of the king of the South will go to the king of the North to make an alliance, but she will not retain her power, and he and his power will not last. In those days she will be betrayed, together with her royal escort and her father[ and the one who supported her.

          One from her family line will arise to take her place. He will attack the forces of the king of the North and enter his fortress; he will fight against them and be victorious. He will also seize their gods, their metal images and their valuable articles of silver and gold and carry them off to Egypt. For some years he will leave the king of the North alone. Then the king of the North will invade the realm of the king of the South but will retreat to his own country. His sons will prepare for war and assemble a great army, which will sweep on like an irresistible flood and carry the battle as far as his fortress.

          None of this is connected to Revelation, which was written centuries later.

  • numlok@lemmy.world
    16·
    16 days ago

    I feel like there’s a single word to sum up one who’s teachings are directly opposed to those of Jesus 🤔

  • LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
    13·
    15 days ago

    This isn’t really new though, it’s just saying the quite part out loud. always-has-been.gif.

    Neoliberalism is the cause of the decay and paved the way for fascism. If you let large conglomerates own everything including news media and social media and then sell access to spew vile hate speech and disinformation to people, the current result is to be expected. It’s actually kind of refreshing that they actually come out and say it.

    These people also don’t believe in equality, they believe inequality of humans is fundamentally morally correct. Neoliberals believe in inequality based on class/wealth, fascists believe in inequality based on identity like race or gender.

    The true sin is ignorance and neglect.

    • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
      12·
      15 days ago

      There’s an argument going around evangelical circles that “empathy” is more dangerous than compassion, with the analogy of jumping in to save someone in quicksand, but getting stuck yourself (empathy) vs throwing someone a rope and keeping your footing (compassion). Like if you understand a bad person’s thinking too much, you are dragged into their sin.

      There’s even a tinge of women being more empathetic and “susceptible” than men.

      It’s how it sounds.

      Dig into the argument, and they all eventually end up focusing on dangerous progressive causes as tempting Christians, basically, and it feels like they’re trying to twist scripture into current MAGA doctrine. JD Vance (a Catholic, not evangelical IIRC) said something related on immigration, that loving your family and those close to you comes before loving distant neighbors, which the Pope very pointedly refuted.

      • jj4211@lemmy.world
        2·
        15 days ago

        Yeah, glad to see the specific instance but after trying to search I see this seems to be a broader doctrine. That you would absolutely hate people who “deserve” to be hated, accordingly to the viewpoint of whoever is preaching regardless of whether that person’s situation actually affects anyone other than themselves.

        It’s kind of like the evil twin of “be tolerant, except of intolerance”: “be tolerant only of intolerance”