- cross-posted to:
- progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/27423053
[Video] ICE arrests PhD student
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Complaining about bans for posts on lemmy.ml is like complaining about birdshit on your car when parking under a tree.
I’m not complaining about bans. I’m trying to have a debate on why tankie-land needs to be part of this?
I don’t think you quite understand how the Fediverse works.
Lemmy has no control over the instances. It only provides the format and connects the instances with each other. That is the „fed“-part. Federation. A central authority controlling how each instance moderates itself would defeat the point.
If you don’t like an instance, block it and move on. Nobody except the person who runs the server can do anything to change how they run it.
Ok, perhaps I don’t. Can you explain what people mean when they call for “defederating from” an instance then?
If an instance decides to not federate with another one they don’t see each other anymore. You can’t subscribe to their communities and vice versa, you don’t see their users posts in third instance communities. From your perspective it stops existing.
It’s sometimes necessary e.g. if an instance doesn’t do moderation by itself and hoards of trolls are coming from one instance spamming in many communities so you don’t have to ban each of their trolls. It can also be a tool if moderation goals differ too strongly from each other, and some instances have decided to defederate from lemmy.ml and more vocal tankie instances like lemmygrad and hexbear.
Ok thanks. I’m a little confused by what that means for voting. Is it possible that anti authoritarian posts or comments still get downvote- brigaded by an instance that is technically defederated from the instance of the OP?
So let’s say instance A and B are defederated from each other, but both are with instance C. User from A posts something on C and every B user still gets to downvote everything to oblivion right?
So .ml is effectively r/TheDonald and we can’t do much against brigading?
No, instance A sees no comments/posts by instance B users regardless of if it’s on instance C.
For example, Beehaw defederated my instance.
They could be commenting all through this thread and I’d never know.
Edit: okay technically not here because they defederated LW too.
Edit2: so to be clear, if your instance defederated/blocked dot ml then they wouldn’t be able to interact with your content at all, votes, posts, anything.
Instances are servers that host communities.
Instances are servers that host user accounts.
Federated instances allow users from one instance to view and post in communities on other (federated) instances. If the instances are defederated there is no connection whatsoever being made between the users and communities.
Now, there are communities that have very strict and often very political moderation policies. Technically only the instance administrator has the power/authority to override communities, but only on the instance they administrate.
This can become an issue, especially when people who get moderated run to the admin demanding to talk with who is in charge. The netKarens get really mad if the admins back up the community, so they’ll start these instance crusades demanding defederation and such.
So as a result there are some natural divisions across the major instances based on how the admins tend to back up community rules.
So for a rough examples: .ml communities have zero tolerance for American Liberalism. Lemmy.world allows communities to be heavy handed against criticism of NATO or Israel. Blahaj.zone has zero tolerance for transphobes gatekeeping. My instance, sh.itjust.works, allows for combat footage and communities dedicated to documenting(harassing) the .ml instance, their admins and the lemmy devs (who admin .ml).
The average user need only pay attention to the communities they post in. The instance of the user is mostly irrelevant, nevermind the butthurt individuals who want a worse and fragmented Fediverse.
You can block the instance if you don’t like it.
Because they made this thing and Fediverse is per se open. If you question whether they belong, I wonder why you are posting on .ml?
You didn’t post which community you posted that into so it’s a but hard to evaluate how legitimate the removal is.
They’re right. I’m not defending the ban, but it is political. This is why MAGA elected Trump.
ICE is following Trump’s orders, which are an unconstitutional violation of the Fifth Amendment. When the Alien Enemies Act was used during WWII, even the Nazis had due process before being deported.
ICE’s actions are political.
Discussing ICE’s actions is not necessarily political, unless you consider human rights violations to be necessarily political as a topic.
Silencing discussion of human rights violations implies tacit support for the action, so I guess we know now where .ml stands. Any claim of leftist ideology on their part is a sham, they just have a hard-on for authoritarians.
Of course its political, what else would it be? You are talking about peoples rights (a political concept) being breached by an administration (poltical) using an arm of the government (political) as a paramilitary force (political).
My point of view is that a human rights violation is a human rights violation regardless of the context in which it happens, and is therefore an important thing to discuss and give visibility to.
Labeling it as “political” and using that as an excuse to hide discussion of it feels like bootlicker behavior to me.
Obviously its important, but pretending its not political doesnt make any sense. If a community doesnt want to discuss politics (and as far as I’ve seen the OP didnt say which community this was in) then its a reasonable post to remove.
Also, the community we’re in has a rule against moderation complaints, so I would really crosspost to !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Nothing says “we are a free and open community that welcomes others” like moderators banning discussion of poor moderation.
Yes, I do understand what the rule is there for. No that doesn’t make it any less hilariously shitty.
I prefer !fediverse@lemmy.zip , just for the non delay with aussie.zone https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/40460535
Thx. I saw the rule. @ mods I’m fine if you want to remove this.
I think federation needs to be better explained possibly here either with a sticky or sidebar. And a diagram of who we are federated with and not that’s live updated would be helpful too.
Thanks for all the work you guys do
At the bottom of the page on every Lemmy instance there’s a link that will show you the instances it’s federated and de-federated from. Look for the link labeled ‘Instances’ from a web browser. Here’s the link for lemmy.world that your account is on-
HOLY SHIT. I’d never perused that list before, so I had NO idea how many unsavory instances were out there, thankfully blocked here.
- childpawn.shop?
- childlove.su??
- pedo.school???
- rape.pet??? which fucking runs the “incestoma” software??
WTF is wrong with people?
That’s the kind of content instance admins are and need to be concerned with on the topic of defederating instances. However most of the time it’s over whether some user in a shitposting thread was unfairly moderated.
Ty. That stuff should be available in mobile clients too. It could definitely be better visually represented and contain a reason and a defederated since date or more.
Also an explanation that addresses my other example about downvote brigading a tertiary instance.
I agree.
Lemmy is still finding its feet and I think things like this will improve as it continues to grow and mature.
While Lemmy has been around since before the reddit drama, many of the large surges in users have been reddit refugees. As a result a lot of the apps we have are ports of reddit apps that the devs slapped together in a hurry to let users pivot to Lemmy. As time passes we’re seeing a number of new apps pop up with Lemmy specific features, and some of the older apps are still/finally being updated to be more feature rich.
The software Lemmy runs is also changing fairly rapidly so there’s some feature disparity between the webui and the various apps. Part of the normal growth process for a younger social media imo, but frustrating at times.
That’s never going to happen. The admins of Lemmy.ml are the actual developers who make the Lemmy software, so there is huge resistance to doing things that will offend them.
There was a software project aiming at making a non-Lemmy Reddit replacement. The main dev got sick and basically the project (Kbin) died, though spawned a fork called Mbin, which afaik has barely been improved since.
Though you may want to check out PieFed, even entirely aside from all of this. The set of features that it has been developing and the speed that they are added is nothing short of astonishing! Btw I am writing to you on Lemmy from PieFed right now.:-)
Since when does lemmy.ml ban political content? Is it on a specific community?
They only ban content that criticizes authoritarianism.
Yep, it’s very much “rules for thee but not for me” at .ml
Lol
Also looking at the mod log it looks like OP is lying to generate outrage and anti-tankie bait. I’m shocked I tell you!
I’m on .ml and I’ve seen this video several times now.
Can you cite where you posted this and what the reason for removal was?
I don’t remember. I didn’t post it. I saved it, and then it was gone.
How do you know the reason for the removal? Is there a modlog entry we can look at?
The mod log is public, linked in the footer on lemmy.ml.
It is, but I have no idea what to look for or when. OP should know if they know why it was removed
Ah so just lying to create drama?
The Fourth Reich is being established under our eyes. What’s the point of social media if a bunch of idiot mods can stop the world from seeing this very essential information?
I would like to have a better definition of what constitutes “political”, what is “humanitarian” then?
Should this be clearly defined per instance?
Like we don’t even have Reddit anymore. All we have is this sputtering slow barely anyone here fresh fragile digital space where we can share some minor resistance, can we at least not have any self sabotage here?
Does it even fucking matter what’s banned in what echo chamber??
I can’t see evidence that it’s banned. I’m on .ml and can see it just fine. It would be in the modlog if it were banned.
Politics: the activities of the government, members of law-making organizations, or people who try to influence the way a country is governed
All the comments against the decision i have seen on this post argue why the rule should be bypassed, not why this respects the rule
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