Modlog: https://feddit.org/modlog/242334

Tl,dr: got a 3 day banned for pointing new joiners to !buyeuropean@feddit.uk , a more active version of !buyfromeu@feddit.org

Context

!buyeuropean@feddit.uk was established to promote European products and services. It got popular recently due to the US decision of potentially dropping support to Ukraine. It had a diverse team of moderators, and was getting some activity.

A feddit.org user (potentially unaware of the existence of the first community) decided to create !buyfromeu@feddit.org

They deleted their Lemmy account after, but promoted a new moderator before leaving.

This moderator created a post to vote about keeping the feddit.org community, or consolidating with the feddit.uk one: https://feddit.org/post/8679890

That vote itself is kind of debatable, as the only option to vote for the consolidation was to downvote, which is not enabled on instances like Blahaj or Reddthat. Also people tend to upvote more than downvote, so the votes expressed may not reflect the actual opinion of the community, but anyway.

Usually, I don’t really care that much about consolidation, there has been a lot of parallel communities for a while, like

It’s not that big of a deal usually, but this case is a big different due to the BuyFromEU movement.

BuyfromEU movement and Lemmy new joiners

https://old.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/ is getting quite large recently, even getting some press coverage. There are a few posts promoting Lemmy over there, with more or less success.

What happens then is that people join Lemmy, just look for “buyfromeu” and find the feddit.org community, while the feddit.uk is actually much more active. Some stats:

feddit.org:

  • 1.04K users / day
  • 2.34K users / week
  • 3.02K users / month
  • 3.02K users / 6 months
  • 1.9K subscribers
  • 125 Posts
  • 1.34K Comments

feddit.uk:

  • 3.79K users / day
  • 8.11K users / week
  • 8.86K users / month
  • 8.92K users / 6 months
  • 2.7K subscribers
  • 354 Posts
  • 5.58K Comments

The main issue with this is that as the usually is kind of active, they think that the feddit.org community is the main community on the topic, while the feddit.uk is much more active. So I started to check for new joiners account, and if they hadn’t posted or commented on the feddit.uk community, I would point them to it, with comments like

Welcome here!

A few pointers for you:

The sidebar also lists a few complementary communities to this one, such as !buyeuropean@feddit.uk or !europe@feddit.org

Apparently this seems enough to give a temporary ban. The mod team is also quite expressive about the “consolidation cannot be discussed stance” https://feddit.org/post/8905532

Just to add some more context, those are the type of comments I give to every new joiners. Some recent examples

Now, a last section about why I’m personally in favor of consolidating.

Federation and decentralization is about spreading power and responsibilities, not splitting a small user base between different places

Some people argue that consolidating communities goes against the spirit of federation and decentralization. However, for people posting content, there is a consensus that our small user base can only sustain so many communities. Splintering the discussion between places is detrimental to the whole platform. Example of recent consolidations:

In the buyfromEU / buyEuropean case, we see people asking recommendations on the same topics on the two communities, while they might have seen a post from the other one is there was only one: https://feddit.org/post/8925080/5204057

Note that there are cases when new communities need to emerge due to power tripping mods. But here, the feddit.uk mods and admins have been good, no such issue to be reported.

Also, quite a few communities are “the main ones”, without any parallel community

Choice overload and decision fatigue are a thing

Too many options hurts users’ decision-making ability. How they feel about the experience as a whole can be significantly impacted as a result.

https://lawsofux.com/choice-overload/

Isn’t one for European Union and the other for the whole Europe?

The text what to expect says, that we are focusing on the EU, but if other befriended countries slip through we are not enforcing rules. We called it a soft limit, so pepole tend to limit themselves, rather than mods jumping each post.

https://feddit.org/comment/5211878

Due to the inherited name, buyFromEU we would like to soft limit the discussion to the European Union countries. We are tempted to read this as EU + friendly countries as long as this is within reason.

https://feddit.org/post/8545702

Wouldn’t consolidating lose people?

An example of successful consolidation/migration: https://lemmy.world/c/football

Shouldn’t people see the other community from the sidebar?

Sidebars aren’t usually visible on a lot of apps, on Voyager for instance people have to actively look for it:

https://vger.app/search/lemm.ee/c/buyfromeu@feddit.org

Why is this case different from other parallel communities?

Due to the growth of the /r/BuyFromEU sub (now at 148000 subscribers), some posts promoting Lemmy are appearing every few days: https://old.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1j7vkrg/the_european_hosted_reddit_alternative_lemmee_is/

As you can see, the main comment is about community split across instances. The commenter was incorrect about the working of federation, but us being unable to provide one community for the discussions to happen isn’t putting Lemmy in a good light as a viable Reddit alternative.

  • Libb@jlai.luEnglish
    6·
    15 hours ago

    It’s nice that both parties are discussing here.

    I read all of the discussion, I think it may be useful to point out that here are two different issues at hand here:

    1. The debate around the question: should we not have or not have multiple similarly-themed communities since we severely lack users to make them thrive. That’s technical consideration that’s easy to debate, imho.
    2. The other one is more related to a question of ego (No blaming here, my own ego is the size of the Eiffel tower ;), and is about deciding if it’s ok to ban someone because they’re doing something you don’t agree with but technically is not against the rules AND AT THE SAME TIME it’s about deciding if it’s ok to keep bothering the admin/mods of another and similarly-themed community once those mods made it clear to you they prefer you stop doing it but you think they’re wrong?

    Those two issues should be dealt with separately, if anyone is hoping to reach any agreement.

    Could the two communities thrive? Maybe, maybe not. They could both die, too.
    Could they merge? I think so (because I don’t see large enough differences between them).
    Should they merge? I think so but not if one of them doesn’t want to merge, it’s simple. It’s called freedom and respect.
    Should they discuss a merge even if they don’t appreciate each other, instead of banning and/or spamming? I think so too. At least in the interest of the two communities. Failing to do so would only reflects we’re not better than some of those elected clowns we call our representatives… And seeing how crass stupid some of them are, I’d rather try my hardest to never look like them :p

    A few more general considerations, keep in mind they’re coming from an old fart that probably doesn’t understand much:

    • If I go to some place and the owner tells me they don’t like I what do at their place. I will either stop doing it, or stop going there depending the situation.
      If I really think they’re wrong, I may ask other persons around me but if none agrees with me, well I’m back to square one and I will either stop going there or stop doing whatever I was doing.
    • As a member of both communities, I find it a pain to have two similar communities even more so when both post the exact same content because it creates more noise in my feed and because it forces me to waste my time and energy deciding where I will read said duplicated content and maybe post a comment. The solution is obvious: I will unsubscribe from one (for the time being, I still follow the two communities).
    • Fediverse is about networking and non-centralization. It should not be about owning and dictating what one should or should not be allowed to do… which is what Reddit turned into and why I quit using it entirely.
    • I know it’s somehow trendy ‘to be right’ and to present the other dude as being ‘the bad guy’ the one that is wrong and that should be punished. At best, it’s naive. Simply put, no one is the asshole because we all are at one time or another—and if anyone needs help understanding that, consider the following: we all need to poop and once we’ve pooped we all need to wipe our dirty ass clean. So, yeah, not only we’re all assholes but(t), no matter how briefly, at one time we also all have our ass dirty. What matters is not that it’s dirty it’s how we clean it.
    • We don’t own communities or their members. If we’re anything special it’s their janitor, trying to keep it working and clean.
    • I’m old enough that I’ve learned to not give a crap about sensibility, be it my own or other’s.
      I try to not be mean but I will also say what I have to say and I’m fine with some people not liking it (or not liking me) as I’m fine with me me not liking what they say.
    • I’m not fine with people insisting on convincing me I should change my mind and I should (dis)like what or who they (dis)like. My answer to that behavior is to block them. Am I wrong or excessive in doing so? I could be, sure, but why would i want to waste my time discussing with someone that doesn’t want to discuss and only want to convince me I’m wrong and they’re right?
    • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
      2·
      11 hours ago

      As a member of both communities, I find it a pain to have two similar communities even more so when both post the exact same content because it creates more noise in my feed and because it forces me to waste my time and energy deciding where I will read said duplicated content and maybe post a comment. The solution is obvious: I will unsubscribe from one (for the time being, I still follow the two communities).

      Thank you for pointing this out. It’s a major effect known in research, I linked it in the OP.

      I don’t have the time to address the rest of your comment, but I think I’ve already presented most of my perspective in the OP and in other comments.