6 years ago when this article was written, yeah, there was some trepidation because this phrase was being used by the OUN. But they didn’t create it, don’t own it, it’s not theirs. It’s a slogan for broad Ukrainian support.
Hitler drank milk, but calcium is not just for fascists
Bandera’s fascist gang also used a red and black flag very similar to the anarcho-communist one (and which you can see today in western Ukraine quite often) and I kinda think it is still ok for Anarchists to use that flag 😅
The anarchist flag is both distinct and came before, though. And as I said in the other comment: the Nazis didn’t invent “Heil!” or the roman salute, either.
It’s easy to mistake and yes indeed it came before like the other examples. I think the difference is that the roman salute is already culturally not-ok to use, so still using it is an intentional sign. The Ukrainian slogan on the other hand is quite commonly used without bad intend (although most Ukrainians also do not know much about the fascist history of Bandera to be honest).
I think a tiny bit of nationalism is okay when your country is literally under attack and you have to come together to survive. Nationalism spurred on by imaginary threats is the kind that divides us. I don’t mind saying “go Ukraine go!” at a time like this.
I disagree and it’s hardly a “tiny bit” when you’re literally doing the salute of a literal Nazi Germany collaborator. Also a bit iffy, considering far right nationalists were infiltrating the army, the police and the secret police in Ukraine, torturing communists.
… and even if that all were ok: could we at least not reproduce that stuff when we’re not Ukrainian?
I’ve never been a (Canadian) patriot, but I’m quite happy to see “buy Canadian” these days – am I wrong to? It’s a way of signalling we don’t take $%^& from Trump.
I disagree with nationalism and I think it’s beside the point, which is why I didn’t want to get into it.
Bu, if you insinst:
Nationalism is the belief that the interests of the national state align with your personal interests. I think that belief is wrong (at least in a dapitalist nation). One example in how it is wrong is that it dilutes/negates class antagonisms. E.g.: if you “buy canadian”, you’re actually helping the Canadian bourgeoisie.
Nationalism is also the reason why people believe in killing and/or dying for their nation in a war. I don’t agree with nationalism. Not even a “tiny bit”.
Removed by mod
6 years ago when this article was written, yeah, there was some trepidation because this phrase was being used by the OUN. But they didn’t create it, don’t own it, it’s not theirs. It’s a slogan for broad Ukrainian support.
Hitler drank milk, but calcium is not just for fascists
So? The Nazis didn’t invent the “Heil” salute, or the roman salute either.
Considering that there is substantial concern about fascists in Ukraine, I think it’s better not to reproduce Bandera’s salute.
Bandera’s fascist gang also used a red and black flag very similar to the anarcho-communist one (and which you can see today in western Ukraine quite often) and I kinda think it is still ok for Anarchists to use that flag 😅
Things are often not so black and white 🤷♂️
The anarchist flag is both distinct and came before, though. And as I said in the other comment: the Nazis didn’t invent “Heil!” or the roman salute, either.
It’s easy to mistake and yes indeed it came before like the other examples. I think the difference is that the roman salute is already culturally not-ok to use, so still using it is an intentional sign. The Ukrainian slogan on the other hand is quite commonly used without bad intend (although most Ukrainians also do not know much about the fascist history of Bandera to be honest).
I’m wondering why you’re still replying, considering that giving historical context of the phrase is apparently forbidden because of “no”.
Sorry, I don’t get you. Edit: ah, because the mod removed the original post? I didn’t see that.
I think a tiny bit of nationalism is okay when your country is literally under attack and you have to come together to survive. Nationalism spurred on by imaginary threats is the kind that divides us. I don’t mind saying “go Ukraine go!” at a time like this.
I disagree and it’s hardly a “tiny bit” when you’re literally doing the salute of a literal Nazi Germany collaborator. Also a bit iffy, considering far right nationalists were infiltrating the army, the police and the secret police in Ukraine, torturing communists.
… and even if that all were ok: could we at least not reproduce that stuff when we’re not Ukrainian?
I’ve never been a (Canadian) patriot, but I’m quite happy to see “buy Canadian” these days – am I wrong to? It’s a way of signalling we don’t take $%^& from Trump.
Not what this is about, homie.
I’d call that a tiny bit of nationalism though.
And it’s not what I’m talking about.
If your logic can’t be applied to more than one scenario then your logic is flawed.
I’m not claiming that it’s not applicable. I don’t want to talk about a different topic.
I don’t mean to drag this out, but when you said you disagree, what was it that I said that you disagreed with?
I disagree with nationalism and I think it’s beside the point, which is why I didn’t want to get into it.
Bu, if you insinst: Nationalism is the belief that the interests of the national state align with your personal interests. I think that belief is wrong (at least in a dapitalist nation). One example in how it is wrong is that it dilutes/negates class antagonisms. E.g.: if you “buy canadian”, you’re actually helping the Canadian bourgeoisie.
Nationalism is also the reason why people believe in killing and/or dying for their nation in a war. I don’t agree with nationalism. Not even a “tiny bit”.