Its a balancing act. You shouldn’t be recording tiktoks and doing the carlton.
But there is a lot of value in organizers being able to communicate. If you see a fat white kid with an assault rifle, you let people know. Same with when the patrol wagons roll in.
And there is a LOT of value in being able to make it clear to the cops that you are recording before they decide to “teach some people a lesson”.
I chat about this with my activist buddies a lot. And one thing we are increasingly realizing is that there is a LOT of value in convincing even a mid-tier IRL streamer to come out. Yeah, they are fucking obnoxious when they are trying to yell to chat. But it is someone who is high enough profile that they won’t immediately have their gear destroyed AND privileged enough that they won’t even realize that is an option until it is too late. At which point the decision as to how to handle the escalation is already happening.
Hmm if it’s a smartphone, their location can still be tracked even if they’re not recording videos for social media. Even if it’s not a smartphone, their location can be triangulated.
I’ve never attended a protest, but one of my younger siblings has. I agree with the author here: don’t take a smartphone with you. If you need to go to a protest, and it’s a charged topic (i.e. people have been fired or detained for it), take a dumb phone and make calls once you’re considerably away from the protest’s meeting site. Or, buy a burner phone for use only at the meeting site. If video footage is that big of a deal, take an old-fashioned video camera to record.
It really just depends what shenanigans you intend to get up to. No method is perfect, and it’s good for everyone to remember that there’s multiple options available.
The guide seems to be aimed at attendees, rather than organizers and media. If someone is showing up to add their voice to the protest, then leaving their phone at home is an ideal way to minimize their footprint.
Every sourcing I have seen comes more from the UK as a way to shorten patrol and the argument that it is an ethnic slur against predominantly Irish police forces is similar to “cracker” in that… can you REALLY be that racist against the oppressors?
Irish people were actually considered “non-white” throughout most of the history of race as a concept. They were only recently recategorized by racists when they felt their numbers dwindling and decided to expand the tent a little.
Irish people have suffered from a history of explicitly racist oppression; calling them “the oppressors” flies directly in the face of history. Their skin colour may be white, but the history of their relationship with race as a power structure is far more complex.
This does not mean that it’s impossible for Irish people to be racist themselves, or for Irish people to embrace “white” as an identity. Race is complicated; that’s exactly why trying to adopt simplistic attitudes to it never works.
Irish people were actually considered “non-white” throughout most of the history of race as a concept.
That’s a myth. I’ve seen the Ellis Island records of my Irish ancestors’ arrival in the US. There’s a Race box, and what was filled in for them (and others with Irish surnames that I noticed) was WHITE.
Note that Irish immigrants could own property, get bank accounts and credit, and could vote. They held public office from early in the wave of immigration. In the Western US, the earliest English-speaking settlers included a large percentage of Irish-Americans (including several of my ancestors). There was prejudice in hiring, and in boarding houses. But these were informal, at a time when there were formal legal barriers against Black Americans and Chinese immigrants.
It’s perfectly possible to be classified as white but still oppressed for other reasons. In the US in the 19th and early 20th century, that reason was mainly anti-Catholic prejudice, followed by classism. The KKK were against the Irish because of their Catholicism, as is shown by contemporary pamphlets and records of speeches. And those were the same reasons the English were so virulently anti-Irish-- those and the fact that the Irish were living on some land that they wanted to steal.
This does not mean that it’s impossible for Irish people to be racist themselves
The Draft Riots in New York city during the Civil War provides an illustrative example of that. Also memoirs of some of my ancestors (one was quite proud of his role in making his town in New Mexico a sunset town). Anti-Chinese racism was also widespread and violent in the West.
Yes, the Irish were (and kind of still are) looked down upon by “Whites”.
They historically chose to address that by becoming cops. Oppressors. The idea being that if they were useful they would at least be better than the brown and yellow people. And irish cops have caused untold horrors amongst labor and minorities.
So while I disagree that “paddy wagon” is an Irish slur so much as MAYBE it is a cop slur, it is close enough that I’ll refrain from using it. But it is still the same issue as with “cracker” where… you are gonna have to try a whole hell of a lot harder for me to care if people’s feelings are hurt that folk don’t appreciate how many skulls they cracked in the name of impressing the crackers.
But you do see how you’re very much engaging in stereotyping by saying that “They historically chose to address that by becoming cops” as if somehow a) all Irish people in America became cops, and b) the experiences of the Irish diaspora in America are somehow representative of all Irish people… Right?
Like, seriously, go ask some Irish people in Northern Ireland how they feel about cops some time. Depending on who you ask you’re guaranteed to get some wildly different answers.
Again. IF we decide that “paddy wagon” is a slur toward the Irish, it is specifically a slur toward Irish cops. And fuck the police.
Simple as that.
Like I said, I’ll try to avoid it in the future because even though there is very little evidence that it is even a slur toward Irish cops, it sounds enough like one that I would rather avoid it. But I am not gonna lose ANY sleep over oppressors getting their fee fees hurt because people don’t like them.
If black people had joined police forces in large numbers for a variety of very complex historical reasons, would you be defending “N****r Wagon” as a perfectly acceptable term right now?
Ideally also leave your car at home and take public transit while paying with cash or walk. CCTV and facial recognition are still issues, but you would be reducing your fingerprint a ton.
That’s it! There’s the answer!
Its a balancing act. You shouldn’t be recording tiktoks and doing the carlton.
But there is a lot of value in organizers being able to communicate. If you see a fat white kid with an assault rifle, you let people know. Same with when the patrol wagons roll in.
And there is a LOT of value in being able to make it clear to the cops that you are recording before they decide to “teach some people a lesson”.
I chat about this with my activist buddies a lot. And one thing we are increasingly realizing is that there is a LOT of value in convincing even a mid-tier IRL streamer to come out. Yeah, they are fucking obnoxious when they are trying to yell to chat. But it is someone who is high enough profile that they won’t immediately have their gear destroyed AND privileged enough that they won’t even realize that is an option until it is too late. At which point the decision as to how to handle the escalation is already happening.
Hmm if it’s a smartphone, their location can still be tracked even if they’re not recording videos for social media. Even if it’s not a smartphone, their location can be triangulated.
I’ve never attended a protest, but one of my younger siblings has. I agree with the author here: don’t take a smartphone with you. If you need to go to a protest, and it’s a charged topic (i.e. people have been fired or detained for it), take a dumb phone and make calls once you’re considerably away from the protest’s meeting site. Or, buy a burner phone for use only at the meeting site. If video footage is that big of a deal, take an old-fashioned video camera to record.
What is this “vid-eo chimera” you speak of? Some ancient technology from the Mayans? /j
But seriously, unless there’s some reason to stream live, old tricks are sometimes still the best tricks.
Cops who know they are being recorded MIGHT behave slightly better. It is why they are so hellbent on never wearing bodycams ever again.
An SD card on the person of someone being thrown in the back of a van to have an “accident” on the way to booking? Not so useful.
It really just depends what shenanigans you intend to get up to. No method is perfect, and it’s good for everyone to remember that there’s multiple options available.
I’ve aged myself, haven’t I? lol
At least you didn’t call it a camcorder.
Maybe. I’ve had the same thought, to the point of bringing a cheap point and click camera or even a disposable one, so you’re not alone!
The guide seems to be aimed at attendees, rather than organizers and media. If someone is showing up to add their voice to the protest, then leaving their phone at home is an ideal way to minimize their footprint.
Then why even GO to a protest??? To stand up for our freedoms? Pssshhhh!!!
does the carlton
Just an aside that Paddy wagons is pretty racist.
Every sourcing I have seen comes more from the UK as a way to shorten patrol and the argument that it is an ethnic slur against predominantly Irish police forces is similar to “cracker” in that… can you REALLY be that racist against the oppressors?
But tweaked anyway. Thanks.
Irish people were actually considered “non-white” throughout most of the history of race as a concept. They were only recently recategorized by racists when they felt their numbers dwindling and decided to expand the tent a little.
Irish people have suffered from a history of explicitly racist oppression; calling them “the oppressors” flies directly in the face of history. Their skin colour may be white, but the history of their relationship with race as a power structure is far more complex.
This does not mean that it’s impossible for Irish people to be racist themselves, or for Irish people to embrace “white” as an identity. Race is complicated; that’s exactly why trying to adopt simplistic attitudes to it never works.
That’s a myth. I’ve seen the Ellis Island records of my Irish ancestors’ arrival in the US. There’s a Race box, and what was filled in for them (and others with Irish surnames that I noticed) was WHITE.
Note that Irish immigrants could own property, get bank accounts and credit, and could vote. They held public office from early in the wave of immigration. In the Western US, the earliest English-speaking settlers included a large percentage of Irish-Americans (including several of my ancestors). There was prejudice in hiring, and in boarding houses. But these were informal, at a time when there were formal legal barriers against Black Americans and Chinese immigrants.
It’s perfectly possible to be classified as white but still oppressed for other reasons. In the US in the 19th and early 20th century, that reason was mainly anti-Catholic prejudice, followed by classism. The KKK were against the Irish because of their Catholicism, as is shown by contemporary pamphlets and records of speeches. And those were the same reasons the English were so virulently anti-Irish-- those and the fact that the Irish were living on some land that they wanted to steal.
The Draft Riots in New York city during the Civil War provides an illustrative example of that. Also memoirs of some of my ancestors (one was quite proud of his role in making his town in New Mexico a sunset town). Anti-Chinese racism was also widespread and violent in the West.
Yes, the Irish were (and kind of still are) looked down upon by “Whites”.
They historically chose to address that by becoming cops. Oppressors. The idea being that if they were useful they would at least be better than the brown and yellow people. And irish cops have caused untold horrors amongst labor and minorities.
So while I disagree that “paddy wagon” is an Irish slur so much as MAYBE it is a cop slur, it is close enough that I’ll refrain from using it. But it is still the same issue as with “cracker” where… you are gonna have to try a whole hell of a lot harder for me to care if people’s feelings are hurt that folk don’t appreciate how many skulls they cracked in the name of impressing the crackers.
But you do see how you’re very much engaging in stereotyping by saying that “They historically chose to address that by becoming cops” as if somehow a) all Irish people in America became cops, and b) the experiences of the Irish diaspora in America are somehow representative of all Irish people… Right?
Like, seriously, go ask some Irish people in Northern Ireland how they feel about cops some time. Depending on who you ask you’re guaranteed to get some wildly different answers.
Again. IF we decide that “paddy wagon” is a slur toward the Irish, it is specifically a slur toward Irish cops. And fuck the police.
Simple as that.
Like I said, I’ll try to avoid it in the future because even though there is very little evidence that it is even a slur toward Irish cops, it sounds enough like one that I would rather avoid it. But I am not gonna lose ANY sleep over oppressors getting their fee fees hurt because people don’t like them.
If black people had joined police forces in large numbers for a variety of very complex historical reasons, would you be defending “N****r Wagon” as a perfectly acceptable term right now?
Yeah racism doesn’t apply to whypepo
If you aren’t communicating that a protest happened, then it didn’t happen.
It’s quite literally the entire point.
Buy a camera. Record. Then when you get back, scrub the exif, then upload.
(Hopefully you got a Tails USB ready)
Ideally also leave your car at home and take public transit while paying with cash or walk. CCTV and facial recognition are still issues, but you would be reducing your fingerprint a ton.
Of course! It’s so obvious!
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