- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- yurop@lemm.ee
- lotrmemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- yurop@lemm.ee
- lotrmemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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When did 'Murica, land of the free, abandon freedom for madness?
Oh, I got this one! Pick me, pick me!
Mexico, Samoa, Hawaii, Philippeans, Columbia, Hondurus, Cuba, Nicaragua, Mexico (again), Haiti, Dominican Republic, Russia, Greece, Costa Rica, Albania, Syria, Egypt, Guatemala, Iran, Syria (again), Indonesia, Iraq, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba (again), Congo, Dominican Republic (again), Iraq (again), Guyana, Brazil, Chile, Bolivia, Angola, East Timor, Argentina, Afghanistan, Nicaragua (again), Granada, Panama, the USSR, Iraq (again again), Haiti (again), Yugoslavia, Afghanistan (again), Venezuela, Iraq (again again again), Haiti (again again), Palestine (continuously), Syria (again again), Libya, Bolivia (again), Venezuela (again)
Can’t help but to sing along
I gotta organize them to make them more singable sometime.
Murica, land of the free, was founded by people who owned slaves. While speaking about the evils of slavery.
So the madness was always there.
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The US is just Helldivers 2 in real life. A democracy managed by Elon Musk and people ready to die for „liberty“, „prosperity“ and „freedom“.
Don’t make me feel bad about my beloved Helldivers!
Sorry to say most people don’t get it or starship troopers.
Don’t feel bad. It’s not the devs fault that we live in a strange timeline
You do understand that Helldivers is a satire of America? This didn’t change in 2024. The Helldivers yell about freedom and democracy while having zero meaningful freedom or political influence, and invading other places to steal their oil or murder them for being communists because that is what Americans do.
We live in a country that was stolen then we stole some other people so they could do the work for us. Then conquering half a continent wasn’t good enough for us, so we went around ruining other places if they didn’t want to give us all their stuff. If people think we only recently crossed a line, I’d generously hope they were just ignorant because the alternative is horrific. Every piece of the past is a step that got us to where we are.
I’m starting to think the same thing, if you go over US foreign policy since WW2 it is almost like the mask is just coming off entirely now.
America did a lot of bad stuff, to put it mildly. This is definitely something else though.
I agree, that’s what I mean by it just going mask off, there’s no pretending about a probable cause of higher moral path etc this time.
What? You’re welcome for all that world peace and prosperity since ww2. It is about time Europe started to share this burden.
It’s pretty disingenuous to act like the US took sole credit, or that Europe didn’t share in the burden of WW2.
Plus re:world peace - the USA has been involved in 32 wars since WW2 ended, none of them on American soil.
Check the numbers. Those are vastly tiny compared to ww1 and ww2. Small policing actions are necessary to keep dictators in line.
There wouldn’t be a ww2 without Europe. Their faulty treaties and failure to stop dictators led to the conflict. America cleaned it up.
Does Vietnam fall under “small policing actions that are necessary to keep dictators in line?”
Yes. Extremely low casualty rate compared to ww2.
K bud.
Have you seen the numbers or are you throwing an opinion out there?
oh yes, the small policing action known as The Cold War that almost ended the human civilization
followed right up with the friendly local copper checking in on Iraq and Afghanistan as a social call
When did the United states and the Soviet union fight?
Sorry to burst that bubble, but just because you were never taught about the things they’re talking about doesn’t mean they didn’t happen.
It just means your education system, like most, is run by nationalists that care more aboutv using mythology to make more nationalists than about conveying historical fact.
Lol national mythology
Murica was never free, has always been madness
All states are tyranny, agreed.
True but if you don’t have an army you’ll quickly become a slave to others who do have an army
It’s not analogy, it’s allegory. It applies too well to the world.
I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.
True. But in 21st century colloquial speech, a linguist would have to admit that, descriptively, “widely applicable” and “allegorical” are nearly synonymous. But I’m also a fan of the quote, history does not often repeat itself - but it rhymes. So whether it’s fictional history or rough allegory, the end result is the same.
in 21st century colloquial speech, a linguist would have to admit that, descriptively, “widely applicable” and “allegorical” are nearly synonymous
Ha. You’re the second person to have suggested that, so maybe there is something to it. But to be honest I’m not sure I agree. I don’t think I’d ever use the term allegory without authorial intent. (But to save repeating myself, I’ll just direct you to my reply to @dragonfucker@lemmy.nz.)
Or, at the very least, even if you are inclined to disregard authorial intent, there’s still a subtle difference between allegory and applicability in that allegory requires an almost direct one-to-one relationship between the text and various elements of the real world, while applicability can be much more subtle or broad strokes. Basically, applicability is a broader term than allegory, a superset.
Dear sir, may I refer you to my previous rebuttal to the esteemed colleague @dragonfucker@lemmy.nz
I can’t xD
Downvoted for disliking allegory.
It’s a Tolkien quote about his buddy CS Lewis’s Narnia and he’s up his own ass in it.
You downvoting granda Tolkien?
I’ll do it again
Europe after stopping fighting the most brutal and effective wars for centuries:
You’re sure you want us back? We’ll be united this time too.
Slavery and colonization is not “war”.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
But like… hundred/-s of years ago we had a very different moral system? Which doesn’t justify nuts, but we recognize our crimes against humanity!
Do you not think that today the us wanting a colonial empire is so so so much worse?
Are you under the impression that Europe is somehow inoculated against imperialism? It’s been fine going along with the US right up to this point, and has sins all its own.
Yea? Not only has no eu country made no attempt to acquire new colonies in the last hundred or so years, they actively deloconized!
In opposition to the US, that demands mineral rights among others in Ukraine! That keeps Guam uprepresented for another example, or for a third example their threats of expansion to greenland and canada! When was the last time any eu countries did anything like that?
Most of Europe is actively helping Israel exterminate the Palestinians in an act of brutal colonialism.
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🤡
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Most US imperialist actions post-WWII haven’t been for territory. The modern version is more economic and abstract. It’s why Steven Pinker could write a whole book on why violence has declined in the world, be technically correct for the most part, but completely misses how the situation has transformed.
And yes, the EU is very guilty of it all, too. You can claim the US is worse, and certainly a revival of territorial imperialism is a regression to a horrible history, but this wholesale wiping away of EU sins is completely unjustified.
Aside from me giving literally gave 3 examples of the US holding/pursuing territorial expansion while not giving/not planning to give representation(guam, canada, greenland)… Do you think that makes it good? Should we start praising Trump for only wanting the mineral rights of Ukraine?
Unlike you Americans, we actually do recognize our actions against our past colonies as crimes against humanity! But aside from stopping and holding bilateral development programs for them, da fuck are we supposed to do?
Unlike you Americans, we actually do recognize our actions against our past colonies as crimes against humanity!
You’re still keeping all of the wealth though, naturally, and maintaining the system of unequal exchange that lets you increase that wealth.
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Unlike you Americans, we actually do recognize our actions against our past colonies as crimes against humanity!
lmao 14 countries are forced to use France’s central bank. Do you think Africa sells you labor and resources for pennies instead of developing their means of production because they just love stripping their country of resources for you?
You should kind of read your links, you know? Doesn’t write a singular word ab how these 14 countries were aggressively forced to use the stable cfc instead of the hyper-inflating rand
I don’t see the link or the example where their resources are unjusty pilfered! I too can make definitive statements you know? American chedar is scientifically the grossest cheese!
I explicitly said it’s a return to a horrible history. If you’re not going to take arguments that are given, then I think we’re done here.
When? When did you say “…return to the past…”? You wobbled on about that us (complete fucking nonsense mind you, the cold war was a thing) and you vaguely stated that it did imperialism without stating a time or a specific event… So maybe you can try that? What country is doing what?
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Eh, colonialism has ended less than it has evolved.
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Queue historical materialism
?
It’s a theory in international relations which argues that colonialism is all present today and excercised by mainly the West, but not in the form of guns and slavery but via the economical system and centre vs periphery
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Aye
Potentially yes, but europe was so nice all in peace (compared to before).
Potentially? So a back when the populus couldn’t read then crimes against humanity was bad! But now, that the population can read now crimes against humanity are good? Makes a lot of sense
I answered your question about us imperialism. Should we too gang up? Probably yes. Will it only be giid? Probably no should we counter russia? Yes.
To be fair, your post is hard to read/understand.
Maybe you should ask if you are not clear ab someone else’s post?
Lets take another run at it! You complain about our, European, crimes against humanity! The ones that we stopped doing and recognize them to be warcrimes ag humanity! Is your issue with that that we stopped doing them unlike you americans?
I was just jesting that we had the biggest most fearsomes armys ever, for good (fighting nazis) and bad (being nazis? Being imperialists, etc.) but we stopped “all that” and now putin pokes us enough to go back to our war stance (but this time we are united).
I don’t know what I said that made you think I’m pro imperialism or that I even spoke about crimes against humanity (it do happens europeans do them sometimes and that atrocious of course, but today it’s russia who do them every day, all day long).
Hope that clears it up!
I will draw you, Donald, as poison is drawn from a wound.
Europe must join together send to shit USA and go full Gandalf the White
May I suggest to evaluate the idea to side with Russia and go full homeland vs newland. I mean EU + Russia sided with China could smash the old USA. If USA leaves NATO the rest of NATO could integrate Russia. Top notch superpower, with a little topping of democracy. TL DR What if EU + RU Vs USA ?
I mean it’s easier for logistics once you build proper infrastructure. Better than an ocean
But don’t mind this comment nor take it seriously, what I want is no more wars.
Peace
For you ukraine doesn’t matter?
This whole template implies that Russia is Sauron. I wouldnt side with it.
Of course It matters, as anyone. I was thinking if USA leave NATO what if we side with Russia, we as EU Ukraine included. But I’m not thinking of military strategy but an hypothetical scenario that would result as a no death stability of the new biggest, triumvirate between China Europe and Russia. Hopefully thinking that those countries are more inclined to have more civilized manners and thus permeable to democratic values.
“What if we abandon siding with one authoritarian and side with a different authoritarian” is not the good argument you seem to think it is.
we side with Russia, we as EU Ukraine included
Become part of Russia’s empire is the only way this works.
You are right and I am wishing for a third way, as equals as in EU. With Russia in EU the congress gonna be so much fun. They already are with one foot (Hungary), Serbia also would be dragged in ending the balcanization by making really peaceful. EU would have access to raw materials. Russia to cutting edge theory and tech. Lesser partner would be china!
Russia needs to fundamentally change for that to happen. Maybe even disintegrate a lose much of their central and eastern asian territory. Russia is too big to be easily integrated into europe.
Yes, I agree but maybe some day Putin will leave the charge either voluntarily or by dying. What will happen then? Elections? Succession?
The USA has been the bad guy since, like, 1952. Hell, it was post-Soviet Russia that joined with The United States back in the post-9/11 War on Terror period. And the Europeans aren’t Gandalf. You are a serf. Bitch, you live in Alsace. You are a peasant. You need to give your fuckin’ lord the grain. Your fucking children, you’ve had 15 children. You’ve never taken a bath. You’ve literally never. washed. your. penis. You’ve never used toilet paper. Motherfucker, you have worms. You are dying. You’ve had 40 children, 3 of them are alive. 2 of them are child soldiers in the Duke’s army.
Bitch, the greatest thing you can hope for is to die at the old age of 36. You fucking can’t read. You don’t know what TV is. If you were transported into today, you would be the worst gamer of all time. You don’t know shit. You literally probably don’t even know what the direction ‘left’ is. I’m sure some Medieval guy is gonna get mad at me for this, bitch I’ve been to the Renaissance Fair. I’ve eaten a large turkey wing, which the Juggalos call ‘bitch beaters’, which I think is problematic but a funny thing to call them.
Motherfucker, you gotta recognize where you are, and then you gotta get passed that. You gotta be unemotional. You can’t sink into this hole. You live in the oubliette. Your job is to crawl up the ladder, motherfucker. You live in the HOLE. You’re in the HOLE. You are a RAT. And the rat, when he’s in the hole gets fucked. People only throw trash in the hole.
You need to eat a body. And you need to carry the plague. And you need to carry a plague around this whole world, that will change this whole fuckin world. And all your enemies will vomit black bile and will choke on blood and will grow boils and die. But only if you get together with your other RATS. And you come up with some kind of super plague, to fuckin end your enemies and…
End. This. Nightmare.
Get better soon.
More importantly, why is EU Gandalf supporting so many pro-Sauron leaders when they have USA Saruman’s fall as a cautionary tale right in front of them?
2016
Yeah, America was fine before that, just ask Iraq, lol. (and Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam, Indonesia, Korea, Chile, Panama, Cambodia, Iran, Palestine, etc)
I don’t like Putin, but showing serious political situations as blockbuster movies is a bit distasteful.
Haven’t you heard? All politics can be explained through comparison to Harry Potter, Starwars, or Lord of the Rings.
America may be able to join Russia, but ultimately the war in Ukraine is a war on Europe so how tf does Europe “join” Russia (besides handing over the entire territory)?
I think that’s the point, that’s what Saruman here is advising, just like some European politics, unfortunately - to join Russia willingly, to become what Belarus is, a vasal state.
How about Europe joins the war?
no thank you
