- cross-posted to:
- keeptrack@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- keeptrack@lemmy.world
Summary
Donald Trump stated that Palestinians displaced by Israel’s military actions would not have a right to return to Gaza under his plan.
Instead, he proposed resettling them in Egypt and Jordan, despite both nations rejecting the idea.
Trump suggested creating permanent refugee communities funded by the U.S., calling Gaza a “real estate development for the future.”
His proposal has drawn condemnation from Arab nations and legal experts, with the UN warning it could constitute ethnic cleansing and violate international law.
Israel’s far-right settlers welcomed the plan.
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Biden’s Gaza policy was tragic, but still, fuck anyone that voted to throw gas onto that fire.
Guy behind the Muslim ban, with the Christian nationalist base, was always going to make things worse.
What gas? Biden tried to do ethnic cleansing as well. Biden tried pushing Egypt to accept Israels ethnic cleansing plan behind closed doors and push the Palestinians out of Rafah. Egypt refused.
Biden helped Israel cleanse the West Bank. Do you believe they have right to return over there?
Trumps difference is he is saying the quiet part out loud. And all it does is piss off Egypt and Saudi.
Thank you for saving Gaza
Thank you for destroying it.
Removed by mod
I reported your comment and it still up. Apparently lemmy.world mods apparently do not remove insults when they defend genocide.
So predictable. Nothing but “whataboutism” anytime someone points out how bad Trump is and will be. This thread was about Trump, not Biden.
Stop making it about Biden then.
It is currently removed on my end.
Was up for more than 6 hours.
You’re getting downvoted but nothing you said is incorrect.
McCarthyism never ended lol
The Russian Federation is a threat to Europe and the USA.
https://2021-2025.state.gov/russias-pillars-of-disinformation-and-propaganda-report/
Did you unironically send us to a US .gov propaganda website to get information about a US enemy state’s disinformation?
Al Jazeera is funded in whole or in part by the Qatari government. Wikipedia
Al Jazeera is heavily influenced by the Qatari government. The same government that has the death sentence for apostasy and homosexuality.
Edit: Also Al Jazeera spun the mass-murder Yahya ‘bring back suicide bombers’ Sinwar as some honorable martyr.
Not even gonna try to pretend it isn’t ethnic cleansing…
People can weasel themselves around terms like “fascist” quite easily, because there are multiple definitions, many are very diffuse and there’s a lot of disagreement around it - but ethnic cleansing to my understanding is quite simple and this is it. Can any serious political commentator pretend it’s not? For example the forced removal of Poles from west Poland (annexed by USSR) after WW2 for example was not a slaughter, but is considered an act of ethnic cleansing.
Member when people were saying Kamala would be worse than Trump for Palestinians, LOL! How’s that vote/abstain working out now?
They probably think it worked out great, since it was only ever an op by hostile elements to convince absolute fucking idiots to vote against their own interests.
Remember when Democrats pleaded with Harris to differentiate herself from Biden and Trump on the issue and she refused?
me downvote instead of argue 🤓
Yeah. It’s pretty ridiculous. The DNC decided it’s voters were wrong and got the election result that usually gets in a country with elections every 2 years specifically to ensure politicians are responsive to voters.
But nope, it’s the voter’s fault.
Lmao. Enjoy Dearborn, Michigan. When he kicks you out, you can join them in limbo.
“But if the Dems ran a better candidate…”
“But Harris didn’t even stop in Dearborn, so it’s her fault not ours”
“Sure, everything Trump says is a lie, but at least he stopped here to lie to our faces. It’s the dem’s fault.”
“One of Trump’s first acts last time was a Muslim ban, but I can’t be arsed to remember that far back”
“I had to vote for this otherwise the dems wouldn’t learn anything”
/s
“we just had to teach the DNC a lesson at the polls during that specific election!!!”
Biden: I just have to aid genocide during an election year when I’m up against an absolute fascist.
Edit: cope and deal with it
Removed by mod
Is that not what happened? Lol
“Ooh I have a choice between genocide or genocide with extra fucking awful fascist bullshit. Which shall I choose? I know, I’ll go for the obviously worse option because I’m a good person” <— you
I voted dem, my state is blue, and we have a great local community. It’s been awful in Gaza long before trump. You can stand by whatever level of government funded genocide you want. There is nuance to voting, but not when I comes to aiding war crimes when you have complete power to stop sending munitions
Do you think the message got across to him? Did the DNC learn anything?
No, he’s a demented old man who broke many promises…like only running 1 term. That doesn’t mean you don’t say anything. It’s almost as if they are representing the will of the people…you need to show up and say something…like using your 1st amendment rights to organize and protest
Edit: fuck trump, his supporters & and anyone who can’t understand Biden’s role in giving the presidency back to trump. You can also add anyone in swing states that voted 3rd party/abstained
I’d like to earnestly suggest you reevaluate your strategy. Clearly threatening/withholding general election votes hasn’t been successful, and there’s obviously a lot of risk of negative outcomes like Trump winning. I think the general election is just too late in the process for a protest vote to mean anything.
I’m all for showing up and saying something, and I think pressure and threats during primary voting have worked in the past. I think we could have applied a LOT more pressure earlier in the process and might have had a better outcome. Now instead we have the worst possible result for the people of Palestine.
They did apply a lot of pressure during the primary. The total uncommitted in the Primary was 706,591 (Which may have been undercounted) which is absolutely massive for a primary. On average, general turnout is twice that of primary turnout. The Democratic Party knew that at they were risking at least 1.4 million votes by ignoring the issue. Here Are 34 Polls That Show A Ceasefire & Weapons Embargo Help Kamala Win. They also knew throughout the whole campaign that a vast majority of their constituents wanted weapons embargo and permanent ceasefire (required by domestic and international law), plus a majority of independents and Republicans. There was no valid reason for the Democratic Party to ignore the demands of that many voters, especially if trying to win an election
I wouldn’t hold my strategy at more fault that the DNC and it’s strategists. They’re the ones with a billion dollars at their disposal and it’s kind of their job to appeal to voters. People have needs and cutting off billions in “genocide-aid” seems like a no brainer. Countless opportunities to invoke the Leahy Act, win over more voters, and save some money.
…but I’m only a constituent, what do I know
Biden wasn’t the candidate.
Correct.
Kamala: I would do nothing different
She wouldn’t let a Palestinian speak at the DNC and pledged to do everything in her power to suck up to Netanyahu. There is so much cope here. There is no fucking difference between Biden, Kamala and Trump. They all suck off Satanyahu. The US is controlled by the Israel lobby. Mearsheimer has been screaming about this for 20 years.
Right, because Harris wanted to kick all of the Palestinians out so she could build a resort.
At least she and Biden attempted to negotiate peace.
🤡
You don’t make friends with genocide 🤷♂️
Thank you for saving Gaza
But if the Dems ran a better candidate…
This is completely valid criticism. Stop pretending it’s not. The DNC is in the habit of specifically going out of their way to choose unpopular pundits, and that’s not voters fault.
Voting for Trump, or not voting is their fault…
You clearly have no idea how US elections work at that level. The single candidate with the most votes wins. “Not Trump” was not a candidate.
If Trump gets 49% of the vote, Harris 48%, and “other” gets 3%, that’s not counted as 51% against Trump and he loses. That’s Trump winning with 49% of the vote.
Anyone who didn’t vote (or didn’t vote for the only candidate likely to defeat Trump) is responsible for his win.
Anyone who didn’t vote (or didn’t vote for the only candidate likely to defeat Trump) is responsible for his win.
Two things can be true at once. Voters not voting is bad, and it’s their fault. The DNC being incapable of finding pundits people want to vote for is also bad, and is also their fault. Pointing one out, has nothing to do with the other and both of these factors led to the election of Donald Trump not once, but TWICE.
Pointing out the DNC’s responsibility to find electable candidates doesn’t elevate the voters responsibility. But if the DNC were capable of finding pundits voters wanted to vote for no issue would exist. You wouldn’t have people refusing to vote, or voting for Trump out of some fucked up sense of “haha, I’m gonna stick it to you!”
Pretending like this issue is solely at the fault of the voters is so fucking disingenuous, disgusting and partyist its insane.
The DNC could have run an iguana wearing an offensive trucker hat, and we still should have voted for the iguana when Trump was the alternative or stood a chance of winning again.
It’s up to the voters to make smart choices, and some of them made the stupid choice.
The DNC could have run an iguana wearing an offensive trucker hat, and we still should have voted for the iguana when Trump was the alternative or stood a chance of winning again.
You don’t have to convince me of this. I completely agree. I’ve said only that the DNC has a responsibility to provide something better than an Iguana and for the past three election cycles, that’s what we’ve got and people are pissed. But every time you try to have meaningful discourse about how the DNC is only supplying Iguana people treat you like you’re some kind of turncoat who voted for Trump. And that’s just bullshit.
We need to be mad at non-voters, people who “lashed out” and voted for Trump, and people who let themselves be swept away by the lies of a grifter who we did nothing but warn them about. But we also need to be mad at the DNC… It’s not entirely the voters fault and fuck anyone who says it is.
We need to be mad at non-voters, people who “lashed out” and voted for Trump, and people who let themselves be swept away by the lies of a grifter who we did nothing but warn them about. But we also need to be mad at the DNC
Please also try to funnel that anger into meaningful action. Staying mad at non-voters is understandable but also entirely unhelpful. Staying mad at the DNC however is both understandable and rational, and has the potential to drive change if you allow yourself to channel it into something productive.
You clearly have no idea how US elections work at that level. The single candidate with the most votes wins.
Which is exactly why in order to win an election, a campaign needs to offer concessions to voters to earn as many votes as possible.
Something the Democratic Party’s Campaign decisively chose not to do, and in fact do the opposite.
Instead of trying to secure hundreds of thousands to millions of constituents by supporting a permanent ceasefire and weapons embargo, a policy vastly supported by the Democrats own voter base (in addition to the majority of also independent and Republican voters), they instead alienated those voters by more than just ignoring their valid concerns.
They chose to arrest thousands of student protestors, gave billions of dollars to a genocide at the tax payers expense consistently for 15 months, actively suppressed the voices and representation of the main victims of the genocide, and campaigned with Liz Cheney (who was actively involved with the Bush-Cheney foreign policy in the middle east and enthusiastically pro ethnic cleansing of Palestinians). They chose to do all that instead of represent the view of the majority of their constituents and abide by domestic/international law.
And that was just one of the major issues, along with immigration and the economy, that tanked the approval of the Democratic Party. If the Democratic Party wanted to actually win against Trump they would have done everything to gain as many votes as possible. They chose not to. They threw the election and let an unpopular fascist win.
YOU do not seem to know how elections work beyond a single cycle. You view each election as singular isolated event, and you have zero perspective of the grander game that’s played between cycles.
What exactly do you think would happen if 100% of Dem voters always “voted blue no matter who?” If every Dem vote is already locked in from day one, what incentive does the party have to do anything to actually represent them? This is why the Dems worked so hard to court Republicans to vote for Harris. They figured that the Dem base was so scared of Trump that their votes were already locked in.
If you want a party to actually represent your beliefs, there have to be some people on your side willing to walk away if the party drifts too far out of line. If no Democratic voters are ever willing to abandon a Democrat for being too conservative, then the Dem candidates will drift further and further right each cycle.
Yes, there’s the idea of democracy being on the line, but when is democracy NOT going to be on the line? And truthfully, the Democratic leaders proved that they were not reliable stewards of Democracy. The party that nominated Garland had zero ability to argue that they would defend democracy. Just look at how limp-wristed the Democrats in Congress have been in responding to Trump’s lawlessness. These people are not capable of defending democracy. Trump should have been thrown in Gitmo on day one of the Biden administration. Instead Biden nominated a Republican to be his attorney general, and the rest is history.
most electoral college votes. Less people voted for trump than did for Hillary in 2016, and he still won.
“Democrats will ignore you if they can always count on your vote”
“Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil”
And idiotic absolutism is why we’re in this mess.
Good job!
Edit: If you meant the /s on your comment, my bad. There’s just so many insane takes going around, I kind of need that to differentiate.
/s…
Maybe I’m just getting whooshed here, but aren’t you and atzanteol saying the same thing? lol
Are they just getting downvoted because the forgot the “/s”?
Are we? I feel like that’s a pretty necessary “/s” considering the mental gymnastics I’ve heard IRL and on Lemmy. If they edit their comment to add that very necessary qualifier, I’ll happily throw 'em an upvote. As-is, I genuinely have no idea.
I for sure hear you on the insane takes flying around! From the context it looked pretty clear to me that they were tagging on to your post rather than trying to contradict it, but who knows.
Posting sarcasm about a controversial topic without a “/s” tag is like fucking without a condom… it carries a risk, but sometimes you just gotta do what feels right!
our best bet was in the primaries in 2020. from there it’s all been about our best opportunities to keep trump away from power regardless. i know america sucks. i live here, too. but to act like voting for the lesser of two evils in a binary choice election was worse than letting trump have power is to dissengage from the fact that this is america. this is how the system is stacked against us. you don’t get to just magically not be part of it because you don’t like it. there was nothing stopping you from organizing resistance under kamala. but there’s plenty of violence under trump that’s making it hard to organize.
I mean Jordan said recently that they’d consider pushing refugees across their border an act of war. Trump’s “plan”, if it can even be called that, doesn’t include a realistic way to bring about all this. I think I represent a good number of Muslims when I way: Fuck him, but it ain’t happening.
Trump wants to own hotels and resorts in a razed and reconstructed Gaza. Do you think he cares where the Palestinians go? Do you think the rest of the world will want to look more deeply into it if he just says “they’ve been relocated, no I won’t tell you to where”?
He’s presenting a Palästinenserproblem. People should be watching very carefully.
Do you think the rest of the world will want to look more deeply into it if he just says “they’ve been relocated, no I won’t tell you to where”?
Well, I do suspect the EU will be more than a little miffed about it. Not enough to come to blows, but probably enough to sanction Israel. That said, that is secondary to the real problem with Trump’s plan: There’s no way the Arab states will agree to this. Assuming he does start exterminating Gazans they’ll flee to Israel, Jordan and Egypt, and while the IDF will be able to keep them from from crossing the border (mostly by killing everything that moves), it’s impossible to expect that of Egyptian and Jordanian soldiers. Gazans will cross over into these two countries, which will lead to a collapse of the peace treaties between them and Israel. Also on the home front, the outrage at all this just might be the last straw that gets an Arab head of state assassinated or lead to some kind of regime change. The former has precedent; this is what got Anwar El-Sadat. Now there’s a very real chance that Egypt, Syria and/or Jordan declare war over this, but even if they don’t this will isolate Israel in the region in a way it hasn’t been in decades. Even if Trump is okay with that, the Israeli government sure as hell isn’t. That’s what will ultimately throw a wrench into the whole thing.
This was literally Bidens plan as well.
You can have fun laughing at people that didn’t want to vote for someone directly responsible for killing their families (as if you’d be different at all), but don’t do it because you think this is something worse that Trump is doing that Biden wouldn’t.
Provide any source for your claim. Never did Biden state anything like this.
Biden didn’t state anything. That was his thing. Not giving interviews. With his administration it wasn’t what he said, it’s what his administration did.
And yes, Anthony Blinken flew all over the middle east trying to get this proposal through. I’m sorry you like to post opinions on something you apparently have no knowledge of.
https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/middle-east-reels-a-new-option-takes-shape-expulsion/
"I’M PROTEST VOTING. " - Dumb Bastards
Friendly reminder: The crescendo of the first six months of project 2025 is using civil unrest to deploy the US Military as a domestic police force. The accompanying suspension of habeus corpus is absolutely needed for them to turn up the heat even more.
They’re laying the groundwork for defanging the judicial branch as we speak - it’s their last obstacle.
From https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/article-i/clauses/763 (emphasis mine):
"The Suspension Clause protects liberty by protecting the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus. It provides that the federal government may not suspend this privilege except in extraordinary circumstances: when a rebellion or invasion occurs and the public safety requires it. "
The sheer audacity of treating sovereign territories like Monopoly properties reveals the bankruptcy of modern geopolitics. Trump’s alleged “Gaza swap” proposal – offering Egypt debt relief for absorbing a war-torn enclave – reeks of casino diplomacy where human lives become bargaining chips. This isn’t statecraft, it’s a foreclosure auction on human dignity.
Egypt’s immediate rejection proves even authoritarian regimes recognize some lines shouldn’t be crossed. But the real tragedy lies in normalizing this billionaire’s mentality that every crisis is a leveraged buyout opportunity. From the Abraham Accords to this Gaza garage sale, it’s all about transactional trophy deals while ignoring root causes.
The Mediterranean doesn’t need another real estate mogul playing Risk with refugee camps. This isn’t solving conflict – it’s outsourcing oppression through financial blackmail. The message is clear: human rights have become adjustable-rate mortgages in the hands of dealmakers.
Hey CNN, wanna interview those protest voters again?
Long story short, when people are hungry and broke and without a place to live, they become desperate, but then when you do something that really makes them angry. They stop being desperate and they start becoming violent. Not just people in the Middle East mind you I’m talking all people from British colonists to French students yelling about revolution all the way down to Germans, who survived the World War I only to see part of their country, giving away the treaty of Versailles. 
 Donald Trump‘s plan is just asking for further acts of terrorism against America and our interest overseas
I feel sorry for any service member who is killed because Donald Trump wants to build another hotel that will inevitably go bankrupt 
I feel sorry for any service member who is killed because Donald Trump wants to build another hotel that will inevitably go bankrupt
I don’t. If Trump ends up sending troops to Gaza (which is bordering on impossible mind you), then those troops will frankly deserve whatever happens to them.
I was in the army for 10 years and can tell you that on an average unit about 50 to 60% of those guys don’t agree with the president’s policy or the plan of action. But they’re there because they assumed that the person elected to be president would have the countries best interest at heart. That assumption has not really worked out.
So yeah, you can say that soldiers and marines getting killed in action will get what they deserve but to me I think we need to take a moment and hold our leaders accountable first. And as far as I’m concerned all the crooked shit Donald Trump is done the punishment. His face is being kicked off Twitter for a couple of months. 
What is this thing? And why? 
It’s also worth remembering that half or more of any unit is too young to drink alcohol legally. Expecting teenagers to make a critical analysis of foreign policy, geopolitics, and international law is … Not realistic.
The anti war movement will make far more gains educating young soldiers than they will spitting at them.
Aaaaand, why is the president of the US making plans for the people in a county he has no authority over again?
No better than Putin, you could say. Both are real dickbags and need to be put down like animals.
It’s ironic that China seems to be the country supporting the Palestinians, I kinda feel we might be the baddies.
Not ironic it all.
The US condemns China for the treatment of the Uyghurs. US good, China bad.
China condemns the US for the treatment of the Palestinians. China good, US bad.
Both countries don’t give a shit about either.
hey hey hey, at least the US is genociding brown people by proxy. You gotta give us that at least.
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Sadly every major power tends to be the baddies to some extent, it’s how they get to be and stay major powers. We just get to grade on a curve. Nazi Germany really set the curve and the US got to be the pretty unambiguous good guys, at least up to the firebombing campaign in Japan, the nuclear bombs, and being complicit after the fact in Japanese atrocities by shielding them from consequences.
While we have an “ambient” level of baddie-ness most of the time, we at least have balanced it out by sometimes defending against unjust violence and providing humanitarian aid.
Now Trump seeks to turn that baddie scale up to the max while simultaneously cutting out all aid efforts.
The real lesson of trump: you can get away with anything after you’ve conditioned your victims enough.
I read recently that all conservatism is is “I’m a good person and anyone who says otherwise deserved whatever I did to them.”
Pretty sure this is how it all started in the 1930s.
That is a hell of a sentence. Damn.
What’s the end goal here, cause another 9/11 so he can declare martial law?
I said something similar a few months before he got into office, got down voted to hell.
A gift to Netanyahu for intentionally delaying the ceasefire until after the election to help Trump win.
Probably say “I gave them a chance, now we need to exterminate, since we have no other options”
Of course he does not. Every American president has always voted against Palestinian self-determination at the UN.
But how can we blame and isolate Palestinian/Muslium/Arab voters if we dont pretend that what Trump saying is something new? /s
To the people blaming protest voters: Other voters are not your enemy. The two-party oligopoly is the enemy. The goal of zio nists and is rael was always to remove all the palestinians from the region - it is built into the purpose of the state. There is no evidence kamala would have done anything to stop this. She wouldnt have said lets take it over ourselves and make it into fucking casinos, but regardless, the overall plan of removing all the palestinians would have continued and the US would have continued to fund it.
This is simply a false dichotomy. There’s plenty of blame to go around and a large share rests with all the people that had the power to stop this but chose not to.
The DNC may have fucked up, but every single one of those protest voters made a conscious decision to increase the odds of Trump becoming president.
So did the DNC though, supporting Israel was more important to them than winning “the most important election of our time”.
And yet Trump is still worse on that “single issue” that was important enough to let him win over.
Yeah, I’d like the Democrats to be farther left on a lot of things too, but I understand the system we live in and I remember his first term.
No doubts about that. Just don’t let the DNC off the hook completely by blaming only the voters.
But you do see how that’s still better, right? Kamala would at least have been open to public pressure, meaning it could have been possible to pull the emergency brake a little harder. Trump isn’t gonna change his mind for fuck all, and isn’t just releasing the brake, but slamming his foot on the gas.
Yes, Kamala would have been better. But she lost, and thats on her. This geno cide has been going on for 75 years and she gave no indication that she would do anything to stop it.
No, that’s not entirely on her. It sucks that she didn’t step out of line from Biden’s stance on Israel. But it also sucks that a lot of Democratic voters decided their personal feelings of moral sanctimony justified electing someone with a drastically worse stance on the issue.
I don’t think there’s been an election in living memory where people liked 100% of the candidate’s policy. Your duty as a voter is to make the most suitable choice from among the viable candidates. People who claimed they couldn’t vote for Kamala because she wouldn’t oppose Israel’s genocide, and who abstained from voting, directly contributed to worsening the situation with their choices, and they aided in deeply sabotaging (if not destroying) the country in the process.
“You can’t support Harris without supporting genocide” was right-wing propagandist bullshit the entire time, and it’s deeply saddening that so many people couldn’t see the forest for the trees. Most of them are probably still feeling smug about it while ignoring the blood on their hands.
There are differences between candidates within each party. And historically both parties have gone through drastic changes. You can vote for like minded candidates at the local level, the state level, and as they gain experience they’ll be better suited to succeed nationally and change the party as a result. But this requires you to actually vote. In every election. Always. And I get the sense that those who complain it’s a two party system the loudest are just offering an excuse as to why they simply don’t vote, don’t participate in our democracy. The people who run for national office in say, the Green Party, rarely have any government experience or real leadership experience. It’s just boilerplate slogans and a clear demonstration they don’t really know what’s going on. Why the fuck would I vote for that? Shit, I can say all the right things and run for President. But I would suck as president because the job is much more bureaucratic management than just saying shit out loud.
