• Darkhoof@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    Please elaborate what the party leadership could’ve done differently to not alienate the other voting blocks mentioned.

    • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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      6 hours ago

      They could have defended the lives of Palestinians and acknowledged that the genocide was happening.

      It was Biden’s press secretary and SOS who got up on a podium everyday and assured the press and those “other voters” that Israel wasn’t doing anything wrong. They drew that line themselves, not anyone who was protesting the genocide.

      • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        It was Biden’s press secretary and SOS who got up on a podium everyday and assured the press and those “other voters” that Israel wasn’t doing anything wrong.

        How short is your memory?

        Biden expressed disapproval multiple times.

        https://apnews.com/article/biden-netanyahu-3591fb5f82b22cf8e5d1060fccaef115

        https://www.axios.com/2024/10/17/biden-netanyahu-sinwar-gaza-war

        https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/13/biden-speaks-with-israels-netanyahu-urges-immediate-ceasefire-in-gaza

        Whether intentional or not, you are spreading misinformation. The same kind that got Trump and Musk into the Oval Office. And people are upvoting you. Congrats.

        • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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          3 hours ago

          Biden tells Netanyahu it’s time to end Gaza war

          This one is kinda funny to me because people interpret trump saying nearly the same words is evidence of his genocidal intent.

          But none of those ‘statements of disapproval’ conveys the severity of their literal fucking war crimes and genocide, which would be a minimum (I would think) to convince a skeptical zionist voter that maybe some intervention is justified. Not to mention that Harris repeatedly refused to commit to withholding lethal aid every time she was asked during her candidacy.

          • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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            54 minutes ago

            There’s no reality in which the U.S. was going to seriously jeopardize its relationship with our closest ally in the middle east.

            Americans had two options:

            A side that expressed disapproval of Israel’s actions and floated stopping arms shipments, which Biden floated.

            Or

            A side with a guy who literally said Israel should finish the job and is now saying he wants to turn Gaza into a vacation destination.

            I’ll let you do the math.

            • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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              34 minutes ago

              There’s no reality in which the U.S. was going to seriously jeopardize its relationship with our closest ally in the middle east

              Maybe you just suffer from a lack of imagination - and anyway what good is having allies if they’re on the genocidal side of things? Seems like maybe we’re the baddies.

    • MJKee9@lemmy.world
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      7 hours ago

      I find arguments that the non-voters shouldn’t be blamed for Trump because party leadership didn’t properly encourage them to vote for Harris idiotic. Everyone has a duty to educate themselves about their vote. Shifting blame to the DNC is both patronizing and destructive. The DNC sucks… You know who else sucks? people who didn’t stand up against Trump. Those people are grown ass adults who actively helped a fascist by doing nothing but bitch.

      • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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        7 hours ago

        I find arguments that the non-voters shouldn’t be blamed […] idiotic

        Please elaborate what the party leadership could’ve done differently to not alienate the other voting blocks

        These two sentences are in contradiction

        Here, see if you can spot the double standard:

        “The [voters] suck… You know who else sucks? [the DNC] who didn’t stand up against [Israel]. Those people are grown ass adults who actively helped a fascist by doing nothing but bitch.”

        • MJKee9@lemmy.world
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          6 hours ago

          I don’t understand. You are quoting two different posts, then concluding that two different people with different viewpoints represents a “double standard”… That is also an idiotic take.

          With that said, OPs comment asking what the DNC could have done isn’t contradictory or hypocritical if you put it alongside my viewpoint. It simply illustrates that you will never make every voter happy on every plank of your platform. We are all different people with different goals. Democracy is about compromise and understanding that the only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. Certain non-voters attitude became “because neither side aligns with my very specific interest, I’m just not voting! That’ll show the Dems that they can’t win unless they support [insert political viewpoint here].”. To go back to my elephant analogy, it’s like those people saying “I’m going to starve because i can’t eat the elephant in one bite!”

          So for some people, their line in the sand is a humanitarian Gaza policy, which will likely require a strong military presence to enforce ceasefires and aid deployment. For others it’s a distaste for overseas military actions, and any intent to increase American involvement in the middle east. One side is pissed off and won’t vote if it looks like you are abandoning Palestinians. The other side is pissed off if you suggest increasing military operations in the region, even if it’s to deescalate Israeli aggression. You can’t please both.

          So voters from both of these camps chose to sit on their vote because they couldn’t get what they wanted… In exchange they helped someone that is likely destructive to both camps’ larger interests, as well as their specific interests discussed above, get elected. That is their right and choice. Just like it’s my right and choice to call them out for supporting fascism through inaction.

          Looking at it that way, I’m not sure how you could say our viewpoints are contradictory.

          • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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            5 hours ago

            Certain non-voters attitude became […] “I’m just not voting”

            Ok, now apply that criticism to those who (hypothetically) wouldn’t have voted if Biden had stopped supplying military aid to Israel.

            The Democrats created that block of voters by repeatedly lying about their knowledge of Israel’s war crimes. Not only could they have done the right thing by withholding their offensive aid from Israel, they could have also not lied about it.

            Democrats tried obscuring the scale of devastation in gaza with their own involvement, and then lost because they got caught and then doubled down. You can’t treat your constituents with that much contempt and expect not to lose those voters, and then post-rationalize the lie by claiming that they would have lost more voters had they been honest and intervened.