My main reasons are they limit free speech/expression and they chose to centralize power instead of giving the power to the people, both in the government and in the workplace.
I’m a socialist myself, but a big part of the reason why I’m a socialist is I’m very anti-corruption. I believe that the centralization of power allows for corruption (and the passing of unjust laws) to occur, as we have seen in the USA and USSR especially, but also basically everywhere else on Earth throughout recorded human history.
The definition of socialism is defined as workers owning the means if production, which I interpret as workers also getting a say in how the means of production are handled. This idea is incompatible with centralizing power by the way I interpret the definition of socialism.
Basically, check out Richard Wolff, who is an economic historian and covers this topic very well.
Every society puts limit on freedom of speech and expression. There’s nothing unique about China in this regard. What makes you think that the west got this balance fundamentally right while everyone else got it wrong aside from the anchoring bias you experience by virtue of growing up in a particular society? It’s certainly clear that China’s approach results in far more social stability than western approach.
Also, the fact that you think China centralizes power instead of giving it to the people shows that you don’t actually understand how Chinese system works. I urge you to spend a bit of time educating yourself on a subject you’re stating opinions on here. Here’s a western article for you explaining that Chinese system actually encourages decentralized governance and grassroots organization. https://www.noemamag.com/what-the-west-misunderstands-about-power-in-china/
Meanwhile, corruption has little to do with centralization. Corruption comes from lack of means to hold people in authority
to account. This problem exists within flat structures just as much as it does in centralized ones. In fact, it can be far more pronounced in cases where there are no formal methods for creating power structures https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
Also, centralization is not at odds with workers owning means of production in any way. That’s a really naive understanding of the problem. For example, you can have cooperative ownership of the industry where the workers are in control of how their workplaces operate, while having central governance structures that direct overall efforts to make sure they align with larger societal goals. These types of structures are necessary in large societies for the same reason complex organisms evolve things like nervous systems and brains. The brain doesn’t micromanage the function of the body, but rather focuses on the high level goals beneficial to the organism as a whole.
I’m also well familiar with Wolff, and he has lots good ideas. If you actually pay attention to what he says then you’ll see that he views Chinese system quite positively overall.
You have this one photo, onto which you project a lifetime of cold war propaganda.
It may surprise you to learn that tank man was standing in the way of tanks leaving the square and going back to base. After climbing on to the tank and talking with the crew, he eventually left the area with some other civilians.
Video of exactly that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq8zFLIftGk
Go look up the video to find out how this ends, then go look up how it ended for people standing in front of cop cars during George Floyd protests for comparison. That’s not the funny part though, the hilarious bit is that the guy was protesting the tanks leaving because he was against the color revolution you chuds were trying to run in China. Try harder shitlib.
These are actually interesting numbers. I do not doubt them and -0.99 pop growth per 1000 is “not great not terrible”. Upon searching I stumbled upon a world bank statistic claiming that China has had a -0.1 growth rate in 2023 but I assume they are calculating per 100 and just rounded -0.99 / 1000 to -0.1 / 100.
Now there are some developed countries that did worse than China (ahem Germany, Poland, Japan - I leave Russia and Ukraine out of this since both are actively decimating their population) but there are also a lot of developed countries who did better: Australia with 2.4, Czechia with 1.8, Spain with 1.2, …
Two numbers I also want to mention are the US with 0.5 and the EU as a whole with 0.2. So China is not far away from the West although both are still growing whilst China is still shrinking but the trend is your friend. It would interest me if migration has already been included (I’d say yes) because that usually benefits the growth rate of the US and EU (and is something both are actively fucking up as we speak thanks to conservative ultranationalists).
I don’t see anything wrong with your numbers. China just started implementing the policies, and you wouldn’t expect a huge change to happen in a single year. However, it does look like there is a measurable effect already.
China has problems just like any country, the workaholic culture is not as conductive towards having kids as some countries in Europe. The problem certainly doesn’t appear to be worse than in most counties, and unlike a lot of countries the government is actually doing something about it. I still don’t see why you point this as an issue that should make me dislike China.
I get the feeling that you like China a lot.
I’ve had him tagged as “I really, really, really love China” for over a year
I love living rent free in the heads of lemmy radlibs.
I tagged it so I don’t have to remember it :)
The fact that you felt like you needed to remember underscores my point. :)
deleted by creator
The fact that you felt the need to write that comment is adorable.
deleted by creator
just can’t help yourself can you
I do like China a lot, what reason would I have to dislike China?
My main reasons are they limit free speech/expression and they chose to centralize power instead of giving the power to the people, both in the government and in the workplace.
I’m a socialist myself, but a big part of the reason why I’m a socialist is I’m very anti-corruption. I believe that the centralization of power allows for corruption (and the passing of unjust laws) to occur, as we have seen in the USA and USSR especially, but also basically everywhere else on Earth throughout recorded human history.
The definition of socialism is defined as workers owning the means if production, which I interpret as workers also getting a say in how the means of production are handled. This idea is incompatible with centralizing power by the way I interpret the definition of socialism.
Basically, check out Richard Wolff, who is an economic historian and covers this topic very well.
Every society puts limit on freedom of speech and expression. There’s nothing unique about China in this regard. What makes you think that the west got this balance fundamentally right while everyone else got it wrong aside from the anchoring bias you experience by virtue of growing up in a particular society? It’s certainly clear that China’s approach results in far more social stability than western approach.
Also, the fact that you think China centralizes power instead of giving it to the people shows that you don’t actually understand how Chinese system works. I urge you to spend a bit of time educating yourself on a subject you’re stating opinions on here. Here’s a western article for you explaining that Chinese system actually encourages decentralized governance and grassroots organization. https://www.noemamag.com/what-the-west-misunderstands-about-power-in-china/
Similarly, the government is also organized based on using grassroots structures as its foundation https://news.cgtn.com/event/2021/who-runs-the-cpc/index.html
Meanwhile, corruption has little to do with centralization. Corruption comes from lack of means to hold people in authority to account. This problem exists within flat structures just as much as it does in centralized ones. In fact, it can be far more pronounced in cases where there are no formal methods for creating power structures https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
Also, centralization is not at odds with workers owning means of production in any way. That’s a really naive understanding of the problem. For example, you can have cooperative ownership of the industry where the workers are in control of how their workplaces operate, while having central governance structures that direct overall efforts to make sure they align with larger societal goals. These types of structures are necessary in large societies for the same reason complex organisms evolve things like nervous systems and brains. The brain doesn’t micromanage the function of the body, but rather focuses on the high level goals beneficial to the organism as a whole.
I’m also well familiar with Wolff, and he has lots good ideas. If you actually pay attention to what he says then you’ll see that he views Chinese system quite positively overall.
You know there’s a video that shows what happened after that frame. Didja know that son?
Link the video coward.
Look up the red cross death toll estimate coward
I just posted it so it gets censored in China.
You just posted it because you’re a chud who’s mad that your color revolution failed and China wasn’t destroyed the way USSR was. Get fucked shitbag.
You have this one photo, onto which you project a lifetime of cold war propaganda.
It may surprise you to learn that tank man was standing in the way of tanks leaving the square and going back to base. After climbing on to the tank and talking with the crew, he eventually left the area with some other civilians.
Video of exactly that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq8zFLIftGk
There are plenty of photos available on the Internet.
http://211.75.138.103/formosa/reply.php?TopicID=5923
Indeed there are photos available, which I provided above.
Go look up the video to find out how this ends, then go look up how it ended for people standing in front of cop cars during George Floyd protests for comparison. That’s not the funny part though, the hilarious bit is that the guy was protesting the tanks leaving because he was against the color revolution you chuds were trying to run in China. Try harder shitlib.
China has high costs for raising a child… Apparently only 2nd to Samsung™ Korea.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202202/1252843.shtml
https://daoinsights.com/news/china-has-worlds-second-highest-cost-of-raising-children/
And they’ve been addressing that with positive results being seen this year
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202205/1265938.shtml
https://www.wionews.com/world/china-comes-up-with-20-recommendations-to-encourage-families-to-have-more-children-572313
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202501/1327070.shtml
These are actually interesting numbers. I do not doubt them and -0.99 pop growth per 1000 is “not great not terrible”. Upon searching I stumbled upon a world bank statistic claiming that China has had a -0.1 growth rate in 2023 but I assume they are calculating per 100 and just rounded -0.99 / 1000 to -0.1 / 100.
Now there are some developed countries that did worse than China (ahem Germany, Poland, Japan - I leave Russia and Ukraine out of this since both are actively decimating their population) but there are also a lot of developed countries who did better: Australia with 2.4, Czechia with 1.8, Spain with 1.2, …
Two numbers I also want to mention are the US with 0.5 and the EU as a whole with 0.2. So China is not far away from the West although both are still growing whilst China is still shrinking but the trend is your friend. It would interest me if migration has already been included (I’d say yes) because that usually benefits the growth rate of the US and EU (and is something both are actively fucking up as we speak thanks to conservative ultranationalists).
If you want to look through the numbers yourself: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.GROW?name_desc=false
In case I messed up the numbers or anything else lemme know - it’s 5:30 am CET and I am extremely tired but the numbers sparked my interest. ^^
I don’t see anything wrong with your numbers. China just started implementing the policies, and you wouldn’t expect a huge change to happen in a single year. However, it does look like there is a measurable effect already.
China has problems just like any country, the workaholic culture is not as conductive towards having kids as some countries in Europe. The problem certainly doesn’t appear to be worse than in most counties, and unlike a lot of countries the government is actually doing something about it. I still don’t see why you point this as an issue that should make me dislike China.
I fully agree. It’s good to see they are addressing the issue and as you say the effects are long time.