OH YEAH THEYRE TALKING ABOUT IT NOW
Please do not remove mods, really sorry for the Google AMP link, but this is a “subscribers only” blocked article on CNN that for some reason AMP just straight up bypasses and opens fine.
Direct link: https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/10/us/jury-nullification-luigi-mangione-defense/index.html.
Edit 1: updated title, CNN changed it on me
I am going to cross fingers for it, but wouldn’t the state just resue in a higher court?
I really don’t think that even a dem controlled supreme court would allow it, but a republican one? We will be lucky if Luigi isn’t yahoo-ed
It’s not a law suit. It’s a criminal trial. The principal of double jeopardy says that an acquittal by a jury is final. The defendant can’t be charged over the same crime again. They go free and clear.
Which is why it’s a little crazy that they’re hitting him with both 1st degree murder and 2nd degree murder in one go. If he goes free, wouldn’t this mean they couldn’t try charging him under 1st or 2nd?
He’s got parallel New York state and federal charges going at the same time. Under double jeopardy rules, those are two separate cases, and if he wins one, he can still lose the other.
On the state case, at least, both 1st and second degree are charged. The jury doesn’t decide on 2nd degree unless and until they decide not guilty on 1st degree. The process is:
All of that happens after one trial, and it’s all in one deliberation session. If the jury gets through all of that with a not guilty on everything, then the state can’t try again, and they can’t appeal.
Note: I don’t think we have a whole lot of evidence saying that the elite in this case will abide by double jeopardy laws anyway.
Since we’re already in a time where there are two justice systems, there’s nothing to say they can’t charge him in the Court Above and make it legal.
We have watched a man get off completely free and become president despite felonies and breaking the law. What’s to say the court needs to follow that law too?
I really think the elite have no idea how much fire they are playing with here, and we’re about to see it go down, one way or the other. We are in an era of no winners.
Ok this one needs explaining to me as a non American isn’t there different criteria for 1st and second degree?
The charges for murder vary by State. Here’s a New York lawyer explaining Murder 1 vs Murder 2 as it relates to New York State law. Murder 2 is regular premeditated murder. Murder 1 is murder with the intent of influencing or intimidating government ie. Terrorism. The lawyer in this interview suggests the Terrorism charge is, ironically, politically motivated, but it will be difficult to actually prove beyond a doubt that Luigi’s intentions were to change government policies and not just get even with someone he disliked.
In most places murder 1 is premeditated murder and murder 2 is manslaughter. Murder 1 in New York is different.
Wow never heard of m1 being used as terrorism thank you
The jury makes a decision on both separately.
Charging with both gives the jury 2 options. If they don’t think it was premeditated and planned enough to convict on 1st degree, they can choose to convict on 2nd degree instead.
If the prosecution only charged him with 1st degree, the jury wouldn’t have any other option. And if acquitted on 1st, he couldn’t be tried again under 2nd degree.
Wouldn’t the state have to present its case for each charge? Like wouldn’t presenting evidence and testimony to show its murder 1 undermine a murder 2 charge?
Typically the higher grades of the same charge incorporate all the elements of the grade below and then some. So if you can prove 1st degree to the jury, 2nd degree is a given.
Sometimes it is the case that different counts need to be proven individually.
In Trumps bribery case, they had to prove 39 instances of falsifying documents. “This is how this individual document was falsified.” x39 times.
So time/money saving excersize? Don’t get 1st saves doing the whole circus again for 2nd
Thanks
No, because the constitution prohibits double jeopardy.
Pls correct me, but you can challenge a ruling for mistrials, can’t you?
And the higher court decides the legitimacy of the prev ruling, right?
Jury nullification means acquittal, and you cannot retry someone after acquittal.
Also prosecutors generally cannot appeal an acquittal.
Mistrials and appeals only work for a guilty verdict. They aren’t an option for a not guilty verdict.
Non-lawyer but…
If a jury comes to a conclusion then the defendant is not guilty then it’s game over. A mistrial had to be called before deliberation happen, and that would have to have some material misconduct during the trial, not just ‘I think we gonna lose’. A guilty verdict could be appealed but that appeal is only to decide if the case was conducted fairly (for a retrial request) or to assess the validity of a sentence.
Basing it off some time I did a lot of legal/court adjacent work for a few years, but I’m pretty sure that’s right.
Assuming the trial results in a hung jury the state can refile the case over and over again - but if the outcome isn’t viewed as a fluke then it’s just a huge waste of money.
To clarify a hung jury and jury nullification are different things. The most likely outcome is probably a hung jury and I’d rate a non-guilty declaration as more likely than a guilty declaration.