Summary
Key leaders of the “Abandon Harris” movement, which encouraged voters to oppose Kamala Harris due to U.S. support for Israel during the Gaza war, are now expressing unease about Trump’s incoming administration.
Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East.
However, concerns are growing over his Cabinet picks, such as Mike Huckabee and Tulsi Gabbard, which some see as troubling for Muslim communities.
Oh I have plenty of people to be mad at - Putin, Netanyahu, Trump, Harris, Biden, the DNC, the conservative wing of the Democratic Party, authoritarian bootlickers masquerading as leftists…
Voter disengagement is an issue, yes, but people advocating for voting against Harris on grounds of voting against Genocide (which, you know, is the whole topic here) fail doubly: First, they pretend it’s the core issue of the election and their vote puts them on the anti-genocide side, and second, they pretend it was a topic of the election at all, such that there would even be an anti-genocide side to put them on.
So yes, I am mad at people pretending that voting against Harris somehow makes them more virtuous. I’m even more mad at the people voting against her for actually relevant reason, but that’s not the topic here.
Sometimes when given an impossible choice the only possible choice is not to act, or to choose something thats not on offer. Some people felt they had to make that choice in the last election, and I dont see how you cant empathize with that. Some of them werent voting for trumps policies as much as they were voting for trump to come in and do what he said he’d do-- burn this system to the ground with a flamethrower. If your family were getting genocided and you existed in a voting system which gave no choice on the ballot but to continue it, wouldnt you be brave enough make that third choice, or would you simply vote to kill your own?
I’m mad just like you– I’m mad at the DNC, the centrists, and Biden/Harris for creating that situation and not forcing some other outcome. Sometimes these bad things happen because we allow for them to and make space for them to exist. You and me.
Why didnt MANY more Dems register their dissatisfaction with genocide in the “uncommitted” vote? Are we so indifferent to what bad policies Biden/Harris was proposing? It would have cost Dems nothing, Biden was going to win over Williamson in that half arsed primary anyway. But the dem voters by and large couldnt even be bothered to lift a finger to signal disapproval with our government sponsoring a far right wing genocide of some “browns” (and some reporters, doctors, aid workers, american citizens etc) in some far away country. By and large, only the youth, progressives, and muslims were willing to even do this symbolic vote to message our leadership that this stuff mattered a lot.
So you’re angry at the victims now huh. I’m struggling to be concerned about centrist anger. We’re all going down civlization’s toilet together now, on the centrists watch. Maybe the centrist dem voters will finally feel that they have something in common with anyone but their own immediate family and their bank accounts. But frankly I’m not holding my breath, and I dont care much about centrist anger myself. Why take advice or criticism from those you dont respect?
And that last line:
Our funding of war crimes and mass murder is not a relevant reason to push back eh. Well that says a lot about you doesnt it.
An impossible choice between…?
The persistent myth that both parties are equally bad is patently bullshit propaganda by those fostering that disengagement. Pretending that all the other issues don’t matter in the face of the decision between “not going to stop genocide” and “going to make it worse” is narrow-minded. Again, if someone thinks “I’m not going to vote for genocide” is a justification for “I’m not going to vote against the fascists”, they’re trying to show their virtue with respect to genocide, while not actually caring about anything else except that signalling of virtue. That’s the hypocrisy.
I cant agree. The utter lack of pressure on dem leadership to counterbalance AIPAC money is not how “democracy” is supposed to work, and by acting like we have no choice in these things we guarantee a continuance of that lack of choice forever. I’m not up for that.
Good chat, I dont think we are going to come together on this point, but I thank you for the civility and I hope we all come out of this somehow.
With respect to Israel? Sure.
With respect to international policy otherwise? No.
With respect to domestic policy? Hell no.
By focusing on one issue - a horrible issue, don’t get me wrong, but one this election wouldn’t influence - to the detriment of all others, you pretend that everything else doesn’t matter. Fuck transgender kids, fuck immigrants, fuck labor laws, fuck economic exploitation, fuck the Ukraine too while we’re at it, fuck everyone and everything, but at least you didn’t vote for one genocide supporter (but got the other, so you achieved nothing anyway and never were going to).
Instead of directing that frustration at a more precise channel like protests, pestering your representatives, more severe forms of activism specifically messaging your discontent about that one issue, you used the vaguest possible opportunity with the most side effects. The US democracy may be broken, mutilated and in dire need of a fundamental overhaul, but it still has some democratic elements. Pretending it doesn’t is disingenuous.
If that changed your view after all, then I’ll take back everything else I’m about to say, but if you genuinely think nothing but making a show of caring about Palestine matters, this is where my charity and civility ends.
You’re a transphobia, racism and christofascism enabler, and a hollow gesture of caring about Palestinian lives that was never going to do anything for those lives except put a bunch of other lives in jeopardy doesn’t weigh that up. In a word:
You’re a hypocrite.
Yes, yes, get it all out. There, there.
I dont vote for war criminals.
Its not required that you like it, but check your numbers-- if you want to ever win an election again you should understand it. I’ll never vote republican, but in extreme cases I wont vote dem either. Theres MANY dem voters like me. Your approval of this or your “charity” doesnt matter to me or anyone else on the left. Nor do I care about your accusations and childish name calling. My votes right here, come get it. or dont, and we can all suffer through trump and the next trump together.
You don’t vote against openly bigoted felons seeking to destroy what’s left of democracy either?
I’m not saving the democratic party from its own decline and corruption, no. And you shouldnt either, unless you’re into enablement of this going on within the party forever, or are into murderous warcrimes against innocents. I’m not going to play hostage games set up by centrist bastards. If they want to chart a course for just to the right of Trump, let them lose till they learn. If the cost of this political system existing is tens of thousands of dead innocents blown apart with our direct enablement, then something has to change.
Only Biden Harris could be indecent and stupid enough to LOSE to a collosally ridiculous and corrupt clown candidate like Trump. Youth, progressive, and muslim votes in key swing states were there for the taking, cheaply even.
If centrist dems cant be bothered to quite literally follow the law and the very basics of common decency, then the outcomes of a loss are on them. If you think this sort of callous disregard for human life will stay on far flung shores, then you’re mistaken. Biden/Harris brought this war criminal stuff to our shores and normalized ignoring innocents being murdered, on many fronts-- health care, gun control, police, and foreign policy. Until people learn thats too evil to be allowed, let us all suffer together. The dems lost the plot a long time ago.
Funny story, I live next to a Japanese buddhist temple who shut down a feed the homeless group’s access to the church kitchen (to assemble and bag meals) because someone in that homeless advocacy group published something critical of the starvation of Palestinian civilians. The temple doesnt even accept any government money, and I’d be surprised if it interacted with Jewish donors in any way. Thats who Americans are now. We arent the land of the free or the brave, and we arent a shining city on a hill. Smell that thuggish repression? I bet you wont acknowledge it, but you know its there.