- cross-posted to:
- memes@slrpnk.net
- cross-posted to:
- memes@slrpnk.net
cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/8503579
seize the means of production
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Nitpick: eminent domain is not the means for publicizing a company, that’s for land for public works
Ever since I learned that pretty much all utilities are publicly-traded stocks on the stock market as for-profit companies that wealthy mfs talk about “diversifying their portfolio” with “in the energy sector” I’ve been so disturbed.
The idea that utilities are for-profit is just so f***ed up and deranged.
You are allowed to say “fucked” 🤣
Thats the problem with internet you never really know what is allowed where. Doubly so in places like lemmy or reddit where rules depend on community
The fact that most companies are for profit is deranged. Utilities are necessary for day to day life, they go hand in hand with having a roof over your head in my book. Real estate should also be non-profit. Insurance should also be non-profit, put the excess money to use by fixing the things that are insured. Hospitals/medical anything should be non-profit. Food and water should be non-profit. Internet connectivity should be non-profit as well.
Give back to the citizens.
Not all at all. Lots of utilities are Consumer Cooperatives. Lots of people working at those cooperatives don’t even know that consumer and worker cooperatives are market socialist and tend to be conservative which annoys the heck out of me.
Why not just use electric stove/heater/whatever? That way you’re using something that’s both cleaner, safer, and make more sense to nationalise if it haven’t.
For stoves, inductions are becoming the de-facto gold standard.
Don’t give the gas propagandists the time of day on this issue - gas stoves have been strategically pushed as an effort to keep gas infrastructure installed across the U.S by the gas lobby.
Just got an induction stove and I can’t even begin to communicate how much better it is than gas and especially old style electric stoves.
As someone who lives where the power goes out if the wind sneezes during an ice / heavy wet snow storm, there’s reasons to have non electric sources for both cooking and heat.
Gas pipes freeze too.
Yeah, except central heating need the fan running to be effective, which is electric… So gas heat doesn’t even work without power.
Wouldn’t it be better to have a generator or something? That way you can cook still, and power other things, like a heater if you need it.
Generator only lasts so long as you have gas for it, but yes. Been begging the landlord for one, our well pump is electric so when we lose power we lose water too.
Sure, wood furnaces can be a good option here to not have any dependency on neither the delivery of electricity nor gas. Food that can be eaten without needing to be heated is also good from a preparedness perspective, and a trail stove is also a good idea.
There are times where storms are so bad here that power is out for a considerable amount of time and it’s brutally cold. Relying on electric is a non starter, people would literally die from exposure.
For most of the country it’s fine, but not for places that get deadly cold.
Wood furnaces are nice but not every place has one. My place does not.
How cold is your place relative to Murmansk, Yakutsk or Oymyakon?
I don’t know how cold those places are but I live in VT in the mountains where it does go down to -20F on the regular and -40 occasionally.
Let me guess, The only state with its own power grid?
I don’t think vermont is on its own grid? We import a substantial amount of electricity from Quebec hydropower and most of our electricity is from renewable sources including our own hydropower, solar and wind.
Our grid goes down because trees fall on it.
That was a jab at Texas I believe.
We often have power availability issues because it’s detached from the grid and neglected for several years.
I thought so. But power issues can happen anywhere in extreme weather especially if lines aren’t buried.
What my state and Texas have in common is we were both at once time independent republics before we joined the union. And my states pre USA independence lasted longer than the confederacy!
Hawaii and Alaska also exist
Although electric is great and can be self generated by things like solar panels.
Not everyone an afford to convert a working appliance to an electric powered version. If I were to replace my boiler today for example I’d have to pay about $40,000-$60,000 USD for parts and labor. Eventually I will but I’ll have to plan and budget for it.
There is also something to be said about reducing the waste of switching out working appliances for different fuel sources. If the goal is the help the environment, then it might be more beneficial to use the appliance until it reaches end of life. Especially of the components are hazardous or not easily recyclable.
If something needs to be replaced, then we can advocate for electric appliances. But it’s wasteful and perhaps unreasonable to replace something that is in great condition and has years of life left in it.
Also, there could still be legitimate uses for natural gas like for a generator incase of power outages.
At the end of the day, the point of this post is simply that utility companies should be a service for the community and not run for profit.
If the goal is the help the environment, then it might be more beneficial to use the appliance until it reaches end of life.
This. Reminds me of the cash for “clunkers” debacle that took plenty of perfectly good ICE used cars off the market.
At the end of the day, the point of this post is simply that utility companies should be a service for the community and not run for profit.
Especially this.
Fair point. Though my point here is swapping appliances is easier and better in every way than to nationalise a utility company.
But then i guess i also over-analysed a meme 🙈
electricity is comically expensive compared to gas for heating, I understand that some places don’t consistently get to -40 every winter, but many places do.
Heat pumps are popular in VT where it does go down to -40 somewhat regularly. Most places still have a backup heat for the really cold days - either wood stove and/or oil.
heat pumps are great and i love the idea, but for places where it gets really cold your right that backup heat is still required.
I’m on oil (and a renter so it’s not like I have a choice) but a friend of mine is on a heat pump and loves it. She has backup heat too, a wood stove and I believe either heating oil or gas. But most of the time she runs the heat pump and the wood stove.
I have electric so if the power goes out it fucks up the climate control. in the winter it’s not so bad because our building gets very warm without any heating, but in the summer its killer because you need AC running 24/7 for it to even be habitable, and sometimes you need extra on top of that.
Yeah, sounds like opposite environments. If you want to prep for that, you can buy a battery operated fan from one of the tool companies (dewalt, Milwaukee, etc) plus one or more of the larger batteries and then put it in front of a window with a tub of water and have the fan blow air from outside over the water into the house and it will cools things down.
Doesn’t work when outside is humid.
I have one in Wisconsin, and this last week has had a few exceptionally cold days. Those days, the heat pump doesn’t go at all, but most days, it does.
Here’s what the usage looks like over the past week:
Dark red is the furnace, light red is the heat pump. Green line is outdoor temperature, and you can see we’ve had some wild swings over the past week. Yellow line is the 71F inside temp. You can see that even on a 25F day (Dec 6), it was predominantly using the heat pump. That tends to be a fairly typical temperature in a Wisconsin winter most of the time.
its picking u some slack that’s for sure. are hydro rates fair out there?
Water is $0.0046/gal.
lol…canadian/american language barrier. we call electricity hydro here. that’s what i mean to say. sorry.
deleted by creator
Fwiw, heat pumps are not comically expensive in operation. They also work in the north of Sweden, so I’m sure that any issues with low temperature operations have been hammered out by now.
I understand that installation can be prohibitively expensive in some markets still though, but this is a problem that can hopefully be addressed.
Sweden has some of the cheapest electricity in all of Europe thanks to all that hydro.
This year my final electric bill was ~ 25 c/kWh. Gas was ~ 8c/kWh (both after distribution costs, and funnily enough for electricity I pay amongst other things a fee to subsidize other people’s solar panels’ negative impact on the grid).
Not “comically expensive” but to be cost-effective a heat pump must average a COP of at least 3.1 (which is possible in most climates with a decent enough HP), so it’s not yet a “jump on it first chance you get” kinda deal because it will take many years to recoup the initial investment. And people remember last year’s winter where the electric costs were more than doubled; gas prices tend to fluctuate much less. This makes heat pumps even more of a very long term investment for people who can afford very large surprises in their power bill… Or who have excess PV generation capacity in the winter (that requires a very large house).
Gas is on the way out but all the political sabotage of electricity prices in Europe (nuclear phaseout, asinine financial regulations and fake competition with useless middlemen, misfiring PV legislation meaning PV owners are being subsidized by everyone else, etc.) means it will take a very long time before HP costs drop enough for people flock to replace their existing gas heater with a heat pump.
the other problem is that the electricity is less reliable than the gas (currently here).
Yeah, but gas heat still requires electricity, so that argument is not a great one, though repeated often.
Plus you can add a generator and reverse that advantage, as well as batteries. If you have an EV with a large battery that allows power out, that can be used as a good short-term solution.
An issue for sure, but one that can be remediated by the distributed nature of local renewable production and energy storage - something that gas by its nature cannot do.
-40 sounds insane. There are very few major cities with such cold temperatures. Outside of such extreme locations, heat pumps are very competitive to gas heating if not simply cheaper.
Welcome to North Dakota friend. :(
-50 mean in Oymyakon in january. -67.7 record low.
Yes I totally understand that there are cold places on earth, but I feel like few here understand the meaning of the term major city./s
More seriously I am sure that 90 percent of the world’s population lives in areas where heat pumps are the most efficient method of heating/cooling.
More seriously I am sure that 90 percent of the world’s population lives in areas where heat pumps are the most efficient method of heating/cooling.
Yes.
Welcome to VT. We have heat pumps but also backup heating sources.
-40 regularly? Yes, sounds like Yakutsk.
If you wanna know what it looks like to have a city own the utilities and operate them for the public interest, one can look at Medicine Hat, Alberta.
I didn’t know anything about this place, but being Alberta I had assumed that this would be a negative portrayal of government.
I was pleasantly surprised:
In 2021, Medicine Hat became the first city in Canada to achieve “functional zero” chronic homelessness, defined as three consecutive months where three or fewer individuals experienced chronic homelessness. They were able to achieve this due to their adoption of a Housing First policy to combat homelessness beginning in 2009.[13]
The entire nation of Finland is another great example of the government essentially eliminating homelessness (and in the process, creating super affordable public housing that isn’t garbage).
The entire nation of Finland is another great example of the government essentially eliminating homelessness (and in the process, creating super affordable public housing that isn’t garbage).
USSR. While it lasted.
The old Soviet builds are pretty Spartan. In fairness they’re like 60 years old now, but yikes.
But, even at that, still a hell of a lot better than being homeless.
Worth bearing in mind the very spartan Soviet blocks were incredible luxury compared to the homes people moved out of. For all of the torture, disappearing, political killing, forced labor, etc. that happened under Stalin, he at least got housing pretty well sorted for the people
he at least got housing pretty well sorted for the people
No, stalinkas were time consuming and expensive in construction. Real mass housing started during Khruschev and lasted until the end of USSR.
The old Soviet builds are pretty Spartan. In fairness they’re like 60 years old now, but yikes.
Depends how old. Brezhnevkas have normal kitchen. Which, comparing to modern humant colonies, are big.
But, even at that, still a hell of a lot better than being homeless.
Absolutely.
What if my hat is already full of things that aren’t medicine?
Nationalize this!
Tbf, my city has a publicly owned utility company and it suuuuucks. Literally writing this comment on my phone during a 12 hour power outage during perfect weather.
I bet it’s being deliberately underfunded and/or mismanaged to support an eventual attempt to privatize.
Deliberately underfunded or mismanaged, maybe. It’s been like this since the 90s at least. But I don’t think they need any intent for a buyout for it to suck. Afaik, there is zero interest from any private buyers for our utilities.
If I had to point to a specific failure, it’s that the rates are set by city council, and raising them is wildly unpopular. Everyone who proposed it loses re-election. We have some of the cheapest power in the world but fat lot of good that does when it’s not on.
How does that work? They still have to buy the power from someone, and those prices have increased. Or do they own their own power plant/turbine/whatever. Then they should sell the excess and subsidize their citizens.
They buy most power from TVA, the rate city council controls is the fixed rate markup they charge on top. Our power is $0.07/kwh by the time you pay for it.
Do you mean municipally owned? Publicly owned would mean it’s traded on the stock market.
Publicly owned means owned by the government. You are thinking of publicly traded companies, which are non public companies that have opened up stock ownership to the public
means of consumption?
I had a gas stove once ands HATED cooking. Hated the smell and never felt safe.
yeah gas stoves are sketchy but if it’s installed properly you should never have an issue. I prefer induction, fuck coil stoves. i have a electric coil stove and i fucking hate it.
coil stoves are okay provided they have glass tops, i have a coil stove with fucking cast iron plates on it which are IMPOSSIBLE to clean and they stay hot for ages after i’m done cooking…
still perfectly fine to cook with, though. it’s just that anything else is even better.
i thought coil stoves with glass on top were induction stoves? i have the coil stove with the coil exposed. its a peice of shit but i have no choice since i live in a apartment.
no, you can tell whether it’s an induction stove if it doesn’t get hot, induction stoves heat up the pot by vibrating the magnetic metal atoms in it.
regular coil stoves are resistive, that’s why transparent-topped ones glow, the coil is literally glowing hot like an old light bulb.
Coherent and good!
