If the Democrats wanted to bring these people out, then perhaps they should’ve changed their stance when it comes to Israel.
Sorry, but voters are going to vote based off their values, and if they see nobody who reflects their values, then the onus is on the parties, not the voters.
If you’re Arab-American, and you see that your country is facilitating the bombing of the country your parents were born and raised in, then you’re not gonna vote for the party in power that’s actively allowing that to occur.
Why don’t you go ahead and tell the people in those shoes that they should go out and vote for the people who refuse to stop supporting a foreign government that’s actively killing their family members? Go on, say it to their face that they should have supported the people who support the country that killed their cousin. Tell them that they should have chosen between the person that’s killing their relatives, and the person who’ll do it even more.
Tell them that they should have chosen between the person that’s killing their relatives, and the person who’ll do it even more.
Um… yes? Harm reduction is a completely valid basis for making a voting decision and a completely valid reason to vote for one candidate vs. another.
Making no choice is the exact same as making the worst possible choice. Not participating is the exact same as deciding that you don’t care about the outcome. If this is your choice, then everyone else is completely justified in asking you why you didn’t do more to stop it, to make it better, to keep it from getting worse.
Alright, if you’re so sold on making the voter out to be at fault, then be my guest. Tell someone grieving the death of their relative as a Democratic party member that “hey, we only allowed one of them to die, they’ll have two of them die”.
The question is, what are you doing to make a difference there? Are you going out and protesting, are you actively seeking out local politicians?
You’re obviously passionate about the innocent people being hurt and killed, so I bet you are, but you could keep doing that while voting for the “lesser evil”. You could have cast your vote for Harris and then on the same day gotten right back to protesting against her policy on the war.
You have two parties that are bad, but one is obviously worse. Why not try to avoid the worst option, so your personal efforts are more effective?
It’s like trying to run a marathon and by abstaining to vote you get both your legs cut off instead of only one, because you fundamentally disagree with people getting their legs cut off. That’s a totally sensible stance, but getting to keep a leg still makes it easier to keep running and there is no secret third option where you get to keep both.
I’ve been out protesting, there’s been weekly ones here that I attend.
A lot of these people that were disenfranchised by the Democrats ended up voting for Cornel West or Jill Stein instead. I already know what people are going to say, something something wasted vote, but I’m really sick of that entire argument because all it does is delegitimize third parties and keeps this status quo of “lesser evil”.
If this entire notion that you have to vote for one or two parties is going to keep going on as it is, then I’ll gladly point to the senate election in Nebraska where an independent aligned with the Forward and Reform parties only lost to the Republican by about 6%. Do I agree with Osborn or the Forward or Reform parties, not fully, especially with how interesting a candidate Osborn was, but the fact that he gave such competition in a traditionally safe Republican riding shows that voting for other candidates is NOT wasting your vote.
It’s interesting to see how many liberals assume that I didn’t vote when I say that giving people a choice between two evils isn’t a good way to build support.
It’s especially interesting in this context, like they think people with direct connections are apparently just supposed to shut up and obey, or be above emotional responses.
The “giant Palestine protest non-voter” is a myth. Same as blaming third party voters. Voter turn out was actually comparable to 2020. These are insignificant compared to the demographic shifts observed this election cycle.
Also, it feels a bit icky to see so many people use protesting a genocide as a strawman “gotcha” for why the Democratic Party collapsed in an election cycle once again. Harris having 100 days to campaign because Biden didn’t drop out soon enough, the DNC being at odds behind closed doors, hell the RACISM/SEXISM problem America as a whole has (white people as a demographic still majorly voted for Trump across the board, while also citing there is no racism problem in America).
Here’s the PBS interactive graph I used to base my claims. Take a look and play around with the graphs. A lot of my preconceptions from reading MSM “left wing” corporate media regarding the “protest vote” was thrown out once I looked at the stats.
Agreed, food safety is really taken for granted. And the libertarians on the topic don’t realize we have food safety because of crazy amounts of deaths and sickness.
I previously listened to some certain farm/homestead podcasts and youtube vids. Several of that group were upset about small farms trying to sell things and also raw milk laws. While I can sympathize with ag and other laws that are stacked against the little guys, it’s like… you know we have an FDA and other things because people were doing terrible shit, right? I’m sure you don’t plan to, but the problem is many other people do. That wasn’t the only thing that turned me off that particular group. They want fewer regulations and stuff, but they also depend on their water, skies, and soil not being polluted to hell all while talking about NOT putting bad/polluted things in their bodies. One talked about potentially bribing a CA emissions check guy in the same damned podcast because their truck as they were leaving CA didn’t meet standards. I stopped watching/listening, but I’m wondering if the hurricane that hit a lot of the carolinas quite badly changed their minds about certain things and government help; I’m guessing ‘no’ even if they took said help.
Edit: I no longer live in the US, but I do think that small farms should have a bit more ability to do some things so long as the buyer is properly informed of and accepts that risk, but there are all kinds of considerations that would have to be done around that and probably limits on size to keep the big/industrial guys from trying to exploit it.
Him in charge of, or dismantling, the FDA is quite possibly one of the more terrifying outcomes of the massive ball drop that was the election.
Maybe people shouldn’t have stayed home in protest over Palestine?
If the Democrats wanted to bring these people out, then perhaps they should’ve changed their stance when it comes to Israel.
Sorry, but voters are going to vote based off their values, and if they see nobody who reflects their values, then the onus is on the parties, not the voters.
If you’re Arab-American, and you see that your country is facilitating the bombing of the country your parents were born and raised in, then you’re not gonna vote for the party in power that’s actively allowing that to occur.
Why don’t you go ahead and tell the people in those shoes that they should go out and vote for the people who refuse to stop supporting a foreign government that’s actively killing their family members? Go on, say it to their face that they should have supported the people who support the country that killed their cousin. Tell them that they should have chosen between the person that’s killing their relatives, and the person who’ll do it even more.
Um… yes? Harm reduction is a completely valid basis for making a voting decision and a completely valid reason to vote for one candidate vs. another.
Making no choice is the exact same as making the worst possible choice. Not participating is the exact same as deciding that you don’t care about the outcome. If this is your choice, then everyone else is completely justified in asking you why you didn’t do more to stop it, to make it better, to keep it from getting worse.
Alright, if you’re so sold on making the voter out to be at fault, then be my guest. Tell someone grieving the death of their relative as a Democratic party member that “hey, we only allowed one of them to die, they’ll have two of them die”.
See if they’re not insulted at that notion.
The question is, what are you doing to make a difference there? Are you going out and protesting, are you actively seeking out local politicians?
You’re obviously passionate about the innocent people being hurt and killed, so I bet you are, but you could keep doing that while voting for the “lesser evil”. You could have cast your vote for Harris and then on the same day gotten right back to protesting against her policy on the war.
You have two parties that are bad, but one is obviously worse. Why not try to avoid the worst option, so your personal efforts are more effective?
It’s like trying to run a marathon and by abstaining to vote you get both your legs cut off instead of only one, because you fundamentally disagree with people getting their legs cut off. That’s a totally sensible stance, but getting to keep a leg still makes it easier to keep running and there is no secret third option where you get to keep both.
I’ve been out protesting, there’s been weekly ones here that I attend.
A lot of these people that were disenfranchised by the Democrats ended up voting for Cornel West or Jill Stein instead. I already know what people are going to say, something something wasted vote, but I’m really sick of that entire argument because all it does is delegitimize third parties and keeps this status quo of “lesser evil”.
If this entire notion that you have to vote for one or two parties is going to keep going on as it is, then I’ll gladly point to the senate election in Nebraska where an independent aligned with the Forward and Reform parties only lost to the Republican by about 6%. Do I agree with Osborn or the Forward or Reform parties, not fully, especially with how interesting a candidate Osborn was, but the fact that he gave such competition in a traditionally safe Republican riding shows that voting for other candidates is NOT wasting your vote.
“Voters just need to accept that their people are being genocided” is the most shitlib thing I’ve ever heard.
Congrats you saved Gaza.
It’s interesting to see how many liberals assume that I didn’t vote when I say that giving people a choice between two evils isn’t a good way to build support.
It’s especially interesting in this context, like they think people with direct connections are apparently just supposed to shut up and obey, or be above emotional responses.
If people need to have keys dangled in front of them to be worth a damn, then they aren’t worth a damn.
The “giant Palestine protest non-voter” is a myth. Same as blaming third party voters. Voter turn out was actually comparable to 2020. These are insignificant compared to the demographic shifts observed this election cycle.
Also, it feels a bit icky to see so many people use protesting a genocide as a strawman “gotcha” for why the Democratic Party collapsed in an election cycle once again. Harris having 100 days to campaign because Biden didn’t drop out soon enough, the DNC being at odds behind closed doors, hell the RACISM/SEXISM problem America as a whole has (white people as a demographic still majorly voted for Trump across the board, while also citing there is no racism problem in America).
Here’s the PBS interactive graph I used to base my claims. Take a look and play around with the graphs. A lot of my preconceptions from reading MSM “left wing” corporate media regarding the “protest vote” was thrown out once I looked at the stats.
Agreed, food safety is really taken for granted. And the libertarians on the topic don’t realize we have food safety because of crazy amounts of deaths and sickness.
I previously listened to some certain farm/homestead podcasts and youtube vids. Several of that group were upset about small farms trying to sell things and also raw milk laws. While I can sympathize with ag and other laws that are stacked against the little guys, it’s like… you know we have an FDA and other things because people were doing terrible shit, right? I’m sure you don’t plan to, but the problem is many other people do. That wasn’t the only thing that turned me off that particular group. They want fewer regulations and stuff, but they also depend on their water, skies, and soil not being polluted to hell all while talking about NOT putting bad/polluted things in their bodies. One talked about potentially bribing a CA emissions check guy in the same damned podcast because their truck as they were leaving CA didn’t meet standards. I stopped watching/listening, but I’m wondering if the hurricane that hit a lot of the carolinas quite badly changed their minds about certain things and government help; I’m guessing ‘no’ even if they took said help.
Edit: I no longer live in the US, but I do think that small farms should have a bit more ability to do some things so long as the buyer is properly informed of and accepts that risk, but there are all kinds of considerations that would have to be done around that and probably limits on size to keep the big/industrial guys from trying to exploit it.