The democrats haven’t held a legitimate primary since 2008!
In 2008 it was a genuine competition between Obama, Hillary, and a handful of other lesser known politicians. Obama won the general in a landslide.
In 2012 Obama ran unopposed. Obama won the general.
In 2016 the democrats rigged the primary against sanders for Hillary, and to absolutely no one’s surprise who was paying attention, Hillary lost the general. Why? she didn’t genuinely win the primary. Shocking!
In 2020, refusing to learn mistakes from 2016, the democrats once again screwed over bernie and didn’t run a legitimate primary - rigged it so that all the candidates except no-path-to-win Warren exited the race to split the progressive vote away from bernie. Joe biden won by the skin of his teeth, and he would of lost if it weren’t for the country reacting to trumps handling of covid.
In 2024, once again refusing to learn the democrats didn’t even bother with a primary, ran an old demented geezer as a presidential candidate, realized that wasn’t going to work, and then anointed unelected Kamala Harris who didn’t even need to compete in a primary.
And they’re shocked they lost?! These people make way too much money to be this stupid.
Anyone who didn’t vote for Harris is either evil or too stupid to be let outside.
How in the fuck do you look at the GOP and say “That’s what I want”?
How is dismissing a genocide working out for you?
I don’t think it’s exactly a matter of appealing to progressives, but an inherent difficulty in trying to appeal to a wide variety of people with a wide variety of interests. You end up having to make vague promises in order not to offend anyone, which comes across as being boring or disingenuous, like you are only saying stuff in order to get elected and not because you actually belive in it. Conservatives can have much simpler and more straightforward messaging because their base is much more homogeneous.
Progressives carry the campaign. They are the enthousiam. They recruit others. They are the mouth to mouth advertisement. They drive people to the polls.
Democrats do not need them though. They can win without.
I disagree. Championing progressive policies in most instances actually appeals universally to a majority of the electorate.
I’m not suggesting they’d be able to follow through because I think a significant number of Democrat representatives can’t stomach actually progressive policies… but I think they’d win more elections.
Actually, the American people have done that to themselves.
Every American eligible to vote had access to all the info about both candidates. And the majority of voters chose to vote for Trump.
More than 70% of eligible voters chose not to vote against Trump.There’s no reason to believe the election was rigged.
Americans, you’ve made your bed. Now lie in it.
I just hope that my country’s government will finally find their backbone and realize we can’t rely on or trust yours any longer, and draw the necessary consequences.
Your mistake is thinking the Democratic Party is trying to get members elected. Their primary goal is to keep the top brass in positions of power and then to keep their donors making money.
That second one is true of every political party, they just have different ways of going about it.
I can’t stop thinking about how in 2016, my conservative grandmother watched the primary debates and told me she actually thought Bernie made a lot of good points.
And then she went on to vote for Donald Trump in November.
This, I think, is the disconnect the DNC keeps failing to recognize.
We just keep nominating milquetoast centrists whose message is little more than “maintain the status quo”, when nobody is happy with the status quo.
But we have to run centrist candidates, they say, or else we’ll lose all the voters in the center!
If that’s how it works, then why is the GOP winning by doing the exact opposite?
In a world where rent keeps going up but wages stay the same, people are scared and frustrated, and they don’t feel like their frustrations are heard.
Along comes a smooth-talking con man who tells them, “I know you’re angry at the world, and I’m going to give you a scapegoat to blame it on. It’s the immigrants’ fault. It’s trans people’s fault. It’s the woke left’s fault. It’s whatever target I tell you to hate next’s fault. And if you elect me, I will stick it to these people in order to Make America Great Again!”
Meanwhile, the best we can do is “Vote for me because everything that other guy said is horrifying.” That’s it. That’s the only real sales pitch we have for Harris. But no matter how terrible the other guy is, it reflects horribly on us that we can’t even talk about our own candidate’s merits at all.
We need to run a candidate who can say, “I too know you’re angry at the world. And I’m here to offer real solutions, not snake oil, and more importantly, not the status quo either.”
The difference between the right and left here is that the right actually likes their guy. And if not even we like our candidates, why should voters?
Alas, we learned nothing in 2016 and I suspect the DNC will continue to learn nothing now.
The dnc is absolutely not gonna learn a god damn thing except to once again give a tongue lashing to the left while making out with corporate America and the military industrial complex.
Every Republican family member except one that I’ve asked about Bernie has said more or less the following:
I like him, I like that he’s not Dem/Repub, he’s got the country’s best interest at heart, etc.
Then it’s usually followed by how he’d never get a chance, and then it revolves back to why Dems suck and repubs rule, or at best, “they’re both the same.”
You are 100% right: people want change, they want progress, and regardless of how shitty he is, Trump got things done that his base wanted.
Clinton, then Biden, and now Harris, promise marginal improvements to the status quo while dismissing large swaths of their electorate that don’t fall in line.
If they ran progressive candidates with progressive policies, they’d pull voters from all over. But they wont, hence, fascism.
I know a ton of republicans and people sympathetic to republicans. All of them thought bernie was a decent guy and they would of preferred him over Hillary.
Then after the primary he increasingly took up democrat talking points and would occasionally finger wag at them while not materially doing anything other than get angry in a speech. His embrace of democrats on gun control was a mistake, if he just maintained his view that he had most of his political career he’d court a lot of crossover voters. But now he’s far too old and the damage is done.
I voted for him multiple times, in primaries and eventually as my senator, but his milquetoast stance on Gaza made me for the first time vote against him for an independent. He’s really disappointed me over the past almost decade - I went from raising money and canvassing for him to finding him to be a has been and sell out. I still think he’s the best elected official on the national scale that we’ve got but I’m so disappointed in him.
Interesting. Every Republican family member that I have talked to has said Sanders is a Marxist.
I mostly agree. I do think that a lot of folks on the left liked our candidate, though, and that a lot in the right disliked Trump but sucked it up and voted for him because they thought they “had” to. Harris’ likeability rating is way higher than Trump’s in the polls.
I don’t think any of this would have been an issue if Bernie was the Dem candidate in 2016.
I think the problem is that plenty of people might like Harris, but not so much that turnout for her matched Biden. The people who like Trump love him, and they turned out in the same numbers as 2020 basically. He didn’t need to meaningfully grow his base if people weren’t motivated to show up for his opponent.
It’s definitely a demonstration that having the most palatable candidate doesn’t matter. It might if voting were compulsory, but it isn’t.
That’s a good point about like vs love. Trump supporters are basically cultists. People who liked Bernie loved Bernie (not cultists).
Indeed. I think it’s why cults of personality are so dangerous. You don’t need to convince that many people if you can get a large enough, dedicated number to consistently do what the leader says and push others around.
I’m not sure that love is the word for Bernie, but I was certainly much more enthusiastic about him. Some people did get weird about it which made me uncomfortable, though. The policy should always come before the politician.
The 14th amendment should have been the end of Trump, period. But Democrats don’t want to look partisan and now look where we are.
I seen to remember a bunch of 14th amendment lawsuits that got shut down by SCOTUS a few days before primaries started.
Yeah, that’s why Obama should have packed SCOTUS, fuck the optics and just do what’s right. We saw this coming and still Democrats assumed terrible people won’t be terrible given the chance
I hate Obama but nobody not even my cynical self saw things going this blatantly corrupt.
If he packed the court back then it could of sparked a civil war.
Agreed, but because he didn’t, now we have this outcome. It would have been worth risking a civil war to ensure America stays a democracy. The military was always on the left side, anyway
Not to mention: I will not be shocked if open civil war occurs at some point in the next few years. Trump’s bound to try to do something beyond the pale to a blue state at some point (CA, MA, NY, etc) - something that is flagrantly illegal, and basically an authoritarian power grab. The governor in question would then mobilize their state guard. Then you have civil war.
And when inevitably the other side wins an election, what are they going to do but continue to pack the court? It’s not a good strategy.
True. But if Obama picked people, at least we would have had enough to offset the loons Trump put on
And then we end up with 100 Supreme Court justices. It’s a childish solution.
My view: yes, the Dems could have some better, but they still put up a legitimately good candidate. The GOP put up a pile of orange dog shit… And the dog shit won. How is it the Dems fault that more than half the population enjoys dog shit?
For the Dems to win, they need to run a fucking perfect campaign and the GOP doesn’t. Why? Because media fragmentation and propaganda. The bulk of the population doesn’t want to be informed. How is that the Dems fault? How did the Democratic party reach those voters that don’t give a shit about truth?
This isn’t a failure of the Democratic party, this is a failure of our society.
The left needs to stop making the perfect be the enemy of the good, or we will never get anywhere.
Is what we’re doing right now getting anywhere?
Uh… Harris wasn’t good. Harris was fucking shit. Perfect will always be the enemy of fucking shit.
Good fucking luck with that. Too many people view their spotless moral record as being more important than outcomes or improving lives (/not actively making things worse).
Misanthropy is the only real outcome to this sort of behavior.
“Spotless moral record”
BRO WE ARE FUNDING A FUCKING GENOCIDE WHILE WE HAVE RECORD HOMELESSNESS, DEATHS OF DESPAIR, WORSENING CLIMATE CHANGE, LACK OF HEALTHCARE, ILLITERACY, WOMEN DYING IN CHILDBIRTH AT RATES NOT SEEN IN THE FIRST WORLD.
But go off smug
liberalfascist.And instead of doing something even remotely helpful, they let the genocide harder guy win.
But go off, accelerationist, go ahead and tell me how this makes things better. And keep using the word fascist, maybe someday you’ll learn the meaning.
You’re so woke you’re letting visibly queer people like myself live under threat of a fascist regime because you refused to hold your party accountable and “push to the left”.
They spit in our faces and minimize a fucking GENOCIDE and then expect us to vote for them? Fuck them and fuck you too.
What the fuck are you smoking friend, my entire friend group is visibly queer and the only option we had available was Kamala. I would lash out for your ignorance, but you have no way of knowing and are extremely raw.
They spit in our faces and minimize a fucking GENOCIDE and then expect us to vote for them?
And instead you spit right back and welcomed it on yourself and those like you and I love. This isn’t to vote shame, it’s just acknowledging objective reality.
I’m so sorry for you and those around me who are going to suffer for the choices made yesterday, but you really need to stop and think about the choices available to you in this limited and frankly fucked up world. I stand by my statement, no matter how many people refuse to accept that bad situations have awful choices with worse outcomes for wanting to die in a particular hill.
Fuck them and fuck you too.
I hope you’re able to find safety and peace, and that you’re willing to let yourself see past your morality to the bare facts of reality. Electoralism fucking sucks, but you can now see what happens when morality outweighs pragmatism.
Goodbye, I don’t have the mental bandwidth to deal with such bitter and misplaced hatred, especially when trying to keep the sanity of those around me melting down. Stay safe.
You could have started off by holding your politicians accountable instead of heading off to brunch. All the issues that dems turned a blind eye to the last 4 years will now become the most important issues to address.
Enjoy brunch! “All my friends are queer”
Lmfao, I’m visibly queer and have been physically assaulted since I was a child in the 90s for it. The democrats have not nor ever been our friends. They manipulate us for votes. They refuse to see how THEIR ACTIONS made them lose an election they should of won in a landslide.
Keep minimizing a genocide, fascist.
Everyone that screams accelerationist seems to be ok with the incrementalism that turned Democrats into full fledged right wing fascists.
“How could the Germans allowed the Holocaust to happen?!”
Look in the mirror, fool.
I think Harris and Walz were good candidates but their pitch was simply unappealing. The average american has been hurting bad the last 4 years. Harris’ pitch was to maintain the degrading status-quo while trump promised to do SOMETHING. Whether or not that something is successful doesn’t matter, people are sick of slowly getting crushed by costs of living.
And so they chose to vote for the candidate who will only make COL worse. Pathetic.
Once again smug liberals blaming voters for voting wrong instead of blaming their party for running shitty untested candidates.
Can’t both be true?
And for the record, I’m not smug, I’m furious.
No, at the end of the day it’s the political parties responsibility to run electable candidates. Not even having a primary makes it so they ran someone untested. And lost.
Harris is objectively better than Trump by any measure. If the voters were educated on their respective platforms instead of voting out of hate they’d have voted Harris.
Let’s not pretend that anyone supporting genocide is a ‘good’ candidate.
Everybody’s fault but the candidate huh?
I’ll see you in 4 years for your encore performance
Fuck you, I literally said the Dems could have done better.
“Good candidate” is your opinion. She did not compete in a primary, she was given the nomination, and shockingly /s she lost. Turns out she was not a good candidate!
God y’all are delulu
Weird you didn’t post this before the election results came in, since it was so obvious.
I’m banned from most popular social media for being anti fascist. This is my very first post on lemmy, after IRL friends are losing their goddamn minds over this when I’ve been saying it since biden nominated himself. The day he announced he was running for reelection. Then in the last hour he drops out and Harris is nominated without a single vote… how could anyone not seen this coming?! I’ve ranted and raved about this to anyone who would listen IRL for months and I was told I was crazy.
The electorate swung solidly right, giving Trump the popular vote. Much as I’d like a more left-wing administration in the US, the evidence does not support the theory that a left leaning campaign would have helped. The US apparently wants an authoritarian government, and it got it.
This is not just the US either - globally we are shifting rapidly to authoritarian regimes. In my own UK where the center left (at best) Labour won the election, but only because the right wing parties were split by FPTP. The Tories elected a far right leader last week and got derided for it, but for them, it’s absolutely the right move, and the next election will likely deliver a far right Tory or Tory/Reform coalition. For reference, Labour got less votes than the previous election that they lost in a land slide.
Same where I currently live, Germany, and my fiancé’s France.
Dark times are ahead. Prepare for the worst.
Trump got about a million less votes than 4 years ago. Harris got about 15 million less. So the population didn’t swing right 15 million Biden voters said fuck it and stayed home.
Everyone said this was going to be a close race. So we can’t even use the Clinton excuse that nobody thought Trump would win.
She was a bad candidate with no message beyond Trump bad. That was enough for me but not 15 million other people.
I don’t know if sentiment swung or if Dems just didn’t show up.
Biden had over 80 million votes in '20. Trump had like 74. Trump got less total votes this year than in '20. Only problem was like 15 million Dems didn’t show up.
If there is one thing you can count on from a Democrat “voter”, it’s for them to not actually vote.
That’s bullshit. Obama won in 2008 with record turnout. Take the loss and learn from it instead of blaming voters for refusing to vote for a candidate who didn’t earn it.
I’m not saying that she desereved the votes.
The comment I was responding to said the electorate swung right. I’m saying that’s not what the numbers say.
The numbers say that the Dems didn’t show up to the polls. It’s absolutely the fault of the democratic party leadership: if you can’t convince people to show up, your offering is insufficient.
So, I actually agree with you, and the point I was making was at a seperate point somebody else made.
I know you’re hurting today but get ahold of yourself. Read and think before you rage at strangers on the internet.
BuT tHe PoLlS sAy OtHeRwIsE
If there hasn’t been a worldwide turn to fascism then where the fuck is everyone? This isn’t just an American phenomenon.
If you have an concrete alternative interpretation I’m all ears. Are numerically fewer votes for Trump in 2024 an indication of growing support, and if so, how do you figure that?
Again, we’re aligned, but you’re lashing out at me out of frustration and anger and I expect you to be better.
If you want to engage in an adult discussion we can do that. I’m empathetic to your pain right now, but take a deep breath before you respond consider carefully if you’re in a place to do so as your best self. Doesn’t have to be today if you’re not. Hit me up in a week. A month. A year. I’m here whenever you want a sober sounding board.
Tone policing a genocide and the anger in the democrats once again selling us out to fascism rather than embrace anything remotely progressive. So liberal.
The coin toss during the caucus for starters. I’m home now, I’ll edit my comment in a bit. I worked for his campaign. It was beyond obvious that they were heavily weighing the scale against him.
I am on your side, and you are being vicious.
Asking you to treat me with respect isn’t tone policing, it’s basic human decency, and I believe you understand that.
I don’t agree with Zizek on everything, but in his ‘debate’ with that lobster Kermit guy he said something to the effect of ‘China is a tragedy because it is a model for the future of governance.’
We are going through the worldwide death throes of neoliberalism.
Dems are the greatest ally the GOP could ask for. Lost to Trump at his weakest, literally doing a Nazi rally. Being spineless doesn’t get you wins. Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar won re-election by comfortable margins and the rest of the party are fighting for their lives in these states. Some Red States still voted to protect abortion rights and just choose not to vote for Harris.
Even if Jill Stein voters had picked Harris she still would have lost. There is no-one to blame but Harris and embracing people like Dick Cheney anrd The Blue No Matter who crowd themselves. You let Republicans unapologetically be themselves but your’re whole brand of politics makes any group who works with you expendable and centers a chance for that 1-2 GOP voters joining. I hope it was worth it.
On top of that, dems have done a load of jack shit in power, even with a majority for half of the last term. Most of the policies Biden promised never came to fruition. Just sitting back and slowly letting the people shrivel. Advertising themselves as “maintaining the status-quo” isn’t appealing for the average voter. As a Harris voter, I say that dem voters have an apathy problem.
Fuck no, the republicans shouldn’t even be close. The fact that they’re tolerating Nazis and other similar views is why they felt comfortable voting for Trump. I will NEVER forgive them.
There was a 2024 democractic primary. I voted for biden. Barring that they use the super electors so yeah its basically rigged. They actually rigged it to make it hard for extreme canidates to win which is just another reason why the dems are not the left party but the centerist party. Its just there is no left party that wins the way the right wins. That being given though the super electors have been around for awhile so the all the primaries including 2008 are equally legitimate or illigitimate and have been so by and large since 1984. They really should get rid of the superdelegates as it was a knee jerk reaction to reagan “democrats”.
Lol, biden against who? RFK Jr; the fake candidate that was a trumper the whole time? Who the democrats tried to block? Or who else, some no name nobody running a vanity campaign? There wasn’t a legitimate primary like there was in 2008 full of qualified competitive candidates. And so they lost.
Getting on the candidate ballot is something the candidates do themselves with signatures. Its not on the party. The democratic leadership did not pick the candidates that ran in 2008.
They lost so hard they lost the popular vote, like you can’t even blame me for voting PSL, if you took every third party voter and added them to Kamala in every swing state, she still would have lost the ones she lost anyways.
You’re getting downvoted for this but literally same. I proudly voted the same as you (in a blue state not that it matters) since she lost the popular vote by a wider margin than all the third party voters combined!
Liberals are in complete denial that liberalism is over, it is a failed ideology.
Its cos they are scared of what will happen if bernie where to win the primary
Honestly not much would of happened. He still would of had a neoliberal congress to contend with, and as much as he pretends to be a fiery independent progressive, he’d capitulate to them anyway.
