Look, you can check my older comments to understand where I’m coming from. I’m open to listening and perhaps we both can learn something from all of this.
The belief that everyone decrying Harris’ stance on Gaza was knowingly or unknowingly participating in enabling a worse stance on Gaza than the still-not-great one we would have gotten with her.
Look back now with hindsight and tell me what would be better for Palestinians in Gaza. What we’re getting with trump in charge? Or what we might have gotten if every single person who said negative things about Harris’ stance had instead focused solely on how Trump’s stance was objectively worse per his own words.
By not putting the focus on the absolutely 100% guaranteed WORSE stance of the two, people enabled talking points that led, in part, to where we are now.
THAT is why so many of us screaming about harm reduction and the lesser of two evils is SO pissed off about single-issue Gaza voters not putting in for Harris.
Stop letting perfect be the enemy of good. It leads to this.
Elections are about holding your nose and making the best of a bunch of imperfect choices.
Trying to make it anything else from the top down is folly. You have to start from the bottom up. Until that happens, we will never see our way out of a two party system.
You’re still blind you’ve learned nothing. Enjoy your fascism. Its not your fault people didnt vote for harris. Its their fault for not understanding how the system works. 😂 You’re hopeless. Harris lost not because of the genocide, its just an example, she lost because she didn’t give voters a reason to show up for her.
Arabs? Israel has a right to murder your family.
Young people? Sit down im speaking.
Labors? Heres 50k for you to start a business. Wat? I need to afford eggs.
Abortion? Oh wait thats protected already is most of the states in play.
Yup and? When will you learn people need support and not shame if you want them to chill in your backyard? Please go self reflect and that what people who are informing you here to your favored party.
Apparently people who sat out didnt get your memo that they then supported trump by not showing up. Funny how that happens.
Look back now with hindsight and tell me what would be better for Palestinians in Gaza. What we’re getting with trump in charge? Or what we might have gotten if every single person who said negative things about Harris’ stance had instead focused solely on how Trump’s stance was objectively worse per his own words.
Can you try to put that into words? Like, give me concrete examples of how Trump is worse for Gaza.
A weapon doesn’t kill or hurt less people just because the dealer who sold/gave it away said, “Genocide is bad, okay?”
Those bombs are gonna kill and hurt people no matter if it’s the Dems or the Reps sending them to Israel. There are lots of reasons why Trump is worse, but if you’re a Palestinian it really doesn’t make a difference if the weapon that kills you came from a racist man or a woman who condemns genocide.
Edit:
So many downvotes, so many disagreeing comments, but not a single fucking person has managed to give one concrete example that explains why weapons coming from Trump is so much worse than weapons coming from Kamala, for Palestinians.
Palestinian nº1: Watchout, a bomb!
Palestinian nº2: Don’t worry, the person who send it said that genocide is bad!
Palestinian nº1: Oh, thank God! And thank you, for putting my mind at ease. For a moment I though that bomb had come from a racist, but I’m glad to hear American democracy has been saved by the democratic party! Now I can be blown to pieces with a smile on my face 🙂
Edit 2:
Here’s an article detailing the destruction in Gaza in December 2023, 11 months ago. I feel like some of you need reminding of the current reality, when you can’t even come up with concrete hypotheticals.
He literally said they should “finish the job” but we all know you’re lying and know he said that. I’m thankful for the user tagging feature in boost. I never have to give you benefit of doubt again, wasting my time reading the words of a liar.
I wonder why people are calling you a liar and a troll.
If the “you” here is singular, then you are the first one to do so, just FYI. But if you wanna use the “popularity makes right” argument, then I suppose you must be okay with Trump being president, given the majority voted for him, right? Or does it not work when the popular voices disagree with you?
And you’ve still given me nothing concrete.
I realize this is an emotional time, especially if you’re American, but you sound completely ridiculous. Take a break from the internet, go hug your friends and family, and (if you’re someone who needs to know this) remember that politics isn’t a reality just once every 4 years and starts from the ground up.
Can you try to put that into words? Like, give me concrete examples of how Trump is worse for Gaza.
Because there’s no effing way Netanyahu would have posted anything like this in response to a Kamala win.
“Congratulations on history’s greatest comeback! Your historic return to the White House offers a new beginning for America and a powerful recommitment to the great alliance between Israel and America. This is a huge victory! In true friendship,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu posted on social media platform X.
I asked for something concrete that Trump would do that is worse for Palestine. You still haven’t explained how a bomb from the Republicans hurts more than a bomb from the Democrats.
Again, there’s lots of reasons Trump is worse than Kamala, but weapons will kill people no matter who uses them.
And one more comment where you give me nothing concrete. Every reply I get like this and which fails to give concrete examples just reinforce my point.
Do you want me to list how things can and will get much worse? Will you finally shut the fuck up?
Israel decides to “annex” the West Bank. The settlers who are forcing Palestinians out of their family homes will have the backing of the IDF/US military. The people who are displaced will be executed.
US troops sent to Israel to aid the IDF in their genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza, and then onward as Israel pushes their invasion force further into Lebanon and other Middle Eastern nations, provoking a much larger global conflict.
US gives Israel approval to use tactical nukes in that conflict. US continues to provide arms for this extended campaign.
Israel decides to use chemical weapons to clear out populated areas, because at this point there’s no point in pretending to care about civilian casualties.
Netanyahu has the IDF go door to door executing Palestinian women and children, and then run over their corpses with bulldozers (again).
Stateside: Trump administration rounds up every Palestinian and deports them to Israel. Most of them will never be seen again.
Trump administration rounds up any person who might be a supporter of Palestine and imprisons and/or executes them.
Trump administration rounds up all Arabs (including the ones who were born here), and deports them to an active battlefield.
I’m going to stop here because I’d rather not ruin my day more than it’s already been ruined.
If you’re gonna crow on and on about genocide, at least have a basic historic understanding of how these things always escalate. It’s not just an on or off thing.
Some of what you said is relevant, but none of it has to do with Palestinians. That’s my fucking point. I said a million times Trump is worse, but for Palestinians it makes no difference.
Israel decides to “annex” the West Bank. The settlers who are forcing Palestinians out of their family homes will have the backing of the IDF/US military. The people who are displaced will be executed.
They are already working towards that, they’ve been annexing the west bank for a long while, and they don’t need US troops for it.
US troops sent to Israel to aid the IDF in their genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza
The genocide is already happening. And again, whether US soldiers or just the IDF are involved is irrelevant for the people being killed, it only matters for the Americans being drafted.
Israel decides to use chemical weapons to clear out populated areas, because at this point there’s no point in pretending to care about civilian casualties.
Netanyahu has the IDF go door to door executing Palestinian women and children, and then run over their corpses with bulldozers (again)
Exactly, “again”. Do I need to say more?
And everything after that is about what Trump will do to people in America, about which we agree on, and I’ve already pointed out several times is not my point. My point is, for the last time, Trump is not materially worse for the people living in Palestine than Kamala, and pretending that he can do worse to them is to whitewash what is currently happening and to downplay the decade long genocide.
He’s already working towards doing that. What I have asked, repeatedly, and which neither you nor anyone else has even tried to answer, is how, concretely, is Trump going to make it worse than it already is? I’ll repeat myself for the millionth time: a bomb will kill regardless of whether it was supplied by Bide, Kamala, or Trump. A bomb will turn things to rubble no matter if it was supplied by Biden, Kamala, or Trump.
So once again, repeating myself like a mad person, tell me concretely - stop giving vague as fuck answers - concretely, what can Trump do to materially make Palestinian’s life’s worse?
Because you fall into the same “but what about?!”-thing modern far right excels at.
You myopically focus on a single issue, trying desperately to use it as a crowbar to dislodge an otherwise sensible point, ignoring that everything is inherently a compromise, in particular in a 2-party system. Hence any voter who is not as easily blinded - and it’s not like Harris wasn’t very open during speeches about how much the right deals in fearmongering and disinformation, going as far as openly mocking people for made-up bullshit stats they’re yelling - would be able to inform themselves and realize that:
Even if they’d like their candidate of choice to act differently about a specific issue in a specific country on the other side of the globe, there are a million other also-important issues that are strictly going to work out better under this candidate.
The candidate that now won has in fact very openly declared that he wants said genocide to accelerate and wants the IDF to “finish the job”.
So, even if we were to just focus on this particular issue, the voters very much vote pro-genocide when they vote for Trump. I love how he’s technically correct though when he says he wants to end the war in Gaza, people are just too stupid to realize how he means it.
But more importantly, and the central point I’m making, you’re under the belief that reaction to a single issue should matter. Any voter who lets this argument slide has inherently lost themselves to the populist and fascist movements as they excel at exploiting this, and in fact stoke this belief whenever they can. Politics on a large scale cannot be judged based on single issues. Because if you try to, you exactly fall into this trap. You automatically end up being barraged by appeals to emotion, constantly, and you’ll let those decide things for you.
Hence, blaming the voters. For not actually engaging with the democratic process, just with hate- and fearmongering and then wondering why that that ended up controlling them when they sought it out themselves.
As I said in another comment, I don’t even think the Palestinian genocide is something the American people cares enough about. I can’t see how this single issue in isolation could have cost Harris the election, especially by such a margin. BUT, it informs how they think. And it shows. The Dems apparently thought that they could win the election by being as far right as they could get away with. It’s their failure for campaigning cowardly and saying always the safe thing that does well in focus groups. Every election they lose is a chance for the Overton Window to move to the right. They tried to capture votes from people from the right of them MUCH harder than from the left of them on almost every issue.
If a voter is already right leaning, especially in the USA, they won’t vote for Fascism Light, they will vote for Fascism Plus.
you’re under the belief that reaction to a single issue should matter
This is certainly not true. I understand the need for compromise but I also understand that there’s stuff one should not compromise about. Otherwise, what makes us different from the fascists if we’re willing to help kill an entire nation “on the other side of the globe” (as if distance makes their lives less valuable) if it serves us here?
I agree with you that voters have not engaged in the process and many failed to do the most basic of civil duties. But when it happens at such a scale something else is afoot. It was Harris’ election to lose and she did.
You seem to have made many false assumptions about me but still, genuinely, thanks for the reply.
You seem to have made many false assumptions about me but still, genuinely, thanks for the reply.
Oh yeah sorry, I should have been clear about this: I wasn’t talking specifically about you, english is not my primary language and it sometimes becomes easier to write that way and I do it automatically. Thank you for not being offended by it. >.<
It’s funny how common this sentiment is though. My dad started voting for the AfD citing similar words. The very same people do not even notice how this trains them in 3-4 steps to be a voter for a fascist party themselves, it’s why it is so genius/scary. They still think they’re doing the right thing, even when actively supporting what breaks their own ability of doing anything to begin with.
Really goes to show how strong a strictly-controlled corporate mass media with an inherent corporate agenda can be. Billionaires enjoy fascist or ultra-right control as it keeps them out of any external checks and balances. And with their influence on media by owning said media, they get to highlight individual issues and hype them up to be as dealbreaking as they want them to be, while burying a long list of individual good things that happens so that people never get into a positive attitude.
There was this fascinating summary a while ago how much the german SPD did to improve the situations specifically for those groups of people who the AfD bemoaned as being “forgotten about” in one of their polemics. And it was curious to see how little you hear about this simply because being a lot of individually small improvements over a certain number of years, there’s nothing big that has to be reported, and giant right-wing media conglomerates can hence easily bury the good news and focus on individual aggro issues instead.
People are also different nowadays because back a few generations ago when things went to shit, people pulled together and dropped their differences. Nowadays when things globally turn bad and hard times come up, everyone segregates and starts blaming everybody else instantly, which again just makes them very vulnerable to fascism.
What belief, may I ask?
Look, you can check my older comments to understand where I’m coming from. I’m open to listening and perhaps we both can learn something from all of this.
The belief that everyone decrying Harris’ stance on Gaza was knowingly or unknowingly participating in enabling a worse stance on Gaza than the still-not-great one we would have gotten with her.
Look back now with hindsight and tell me what would be better for Palestinians in Gaza. What we’re getting with trump in charge? Or what we might have gotten if every single person who said negative things about Harris’ stance had instead focused solely on how Trump’s stance was objectively worse per his own words.
By not putting the focus on the absolutely 100% guaranteed WORSE stance of the two, people enabled talking points that led, in part, to where we are now.
THAT is why so many of us screaming about harm reduction and the lesser of two evils is SO pissed off about single-issue Gaza voters not putting in for Harris.
Stop letting perfect be the enemy of good. It leads to this.
Elections are about holding your nose and making the best of a bunch of imperfect choices.
Trying to make it anything else from the top down is folly. You have to start from the bottom up. Until that happens, we will never see our way out of a two party system.
You’re still blind you’ve learned nothing. Enjoy your fascism. Its not your fault people didnt vote for harris. Its their fault for not understanding how the system works. 😂 You’re hopeless. Harris lost not because of the genocide, its just an example, she lost because she didn’t give voters a reason to show up for her.
Arabs? Israel has a right to murder your family. Young people? Sit down im speaking. Labors? Heres 50k for you to start a business. Wat? I need to afford eggs. Abortion? Oh wait thats protected already is most of the states in play.
It’s like you literally cannot read. Just leave.
Yup and? When will you learn people need support and not shame if you want them to chill in your backyard? Please go self reflect and that what people who are informing you here to your favored party.
Apparently people who sat out didnt get your memo that they then supported trump by not showing up. Funny how that happens.
Can you try to put that into words? Like, give me concrete examples of how Trump is worse for Gaza.
A weapon doesn’t kill or hurt less people just because the dealer who sold/gave it away said, “Genocide is bad, okay?”
Those bombs are gonna kill and hurt people no matter if it’s the Dems or the Reps sending them to Israel. There are lots of reasons why Trump is worse, but if you’re a Palestinian it really doesn’t make a difference if the weapon that kills you came from a racist man or a woman who condemns genocide.
Edit:
So many downvotes, so many disagreeing comments, but not a single fucking person has managed to give one concrete example that explains why weapons coming from Trump is so much worse than weapons coming from Kamala, for Palestinians.
Edit 2:
Here’s an article detailing the destruction in Gaza in December 2023, 11 months ago. I feel like some of you need reminding of the current reality, when you can’t even come up with concrete hypotheticals.
He literally said they should “finish the job” but we all know you’re lying and know he said that. I’m thankful for the user tagging feature in boost. I never have to give you benefit of doubt again, wasting my time reading the words of a liar.
I said to give me something concrete, you have given me nothing concrete. Israel is not that far from “finishing the job” by themselves.
But what else is to be expected, all you people can say is “you’re a liar/troll”. Keep burying your head in the sand then.
I wonder why people are calling you a liar and a troll. Yeah they’re all wrong. /s
If the “you” here is singular, then you are the first one to do so, just FYI. But if you wanna use the “popularity makes right” argument, then I suppose you must be okay with Trump being president, given the majority voted for him, right? Or does it not work when the popular voices disagree with you?
And you’ve still given me nothing concrete.
I realize this is an emotional time, especially if you’re American, but you sound completely ridiculous. Take a break from the internet, go hug your friends and family, and (if you’re someone who needs to know this) remember that politics isn’t a reality just once every 4 years and starts from the ground up.
You got a great example but you think sealioning will make people mad. I won’t respond to any more horseshit from you
Fucking christ, you are completely detached from reality.
Because there’s no effing way Netanyahu would have posted anything like this in response to a Kamala win.
ThAts NoT cOncReTe
This asshole is nothing but a fucking piece of shit sealion
Trick go home, drink yourself silly, have some shrooms. You’re not helping yourself here. 🤷 Honestly its painful to watch you.
I asked for something concrete that Trump would do that is worse for Palestine. You still haven’t explained how a bomb from the Republicans hurts more than a bomb from the Democrats.
Again, there’s lots of reasons Trump is worse than Kamala, but weapons will kill people no matter who uses them.
Are you seriously unable to imagine anything worse than whats happening there right now? Read a fucking history book.
I can’t even believe an adult person is trying to make this argument. Please tell me that you’re a child.
And one more comment where you give me nothing concrete. Every reply I get like this and which fails to give concrete examples just reinforce my point.
Do you want me to list how things can and will get much worse? Will you finally shut the fuck up?
Israel decides to “annex” the West Bank. The settlers who are forcing Palestinians out of their family homes will have the backing of the IDF/US military. The people who are displaced will be executed.
US troops sent to Israel to aid the IDF in their genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza, and then onward as Israel pushes their invasion force further into Lebanon and other Middle Eastern nations, provoking a much larger global conflict.
US gives Israel approval to use tactical nukes in that conflict. US continues to provide arms for this extended campaign.
Israel decides to use chemical weapons to clear out populated areas, because at this point there’s no point in pretending to care about civilian casualties.
Netanyahu has the IDF go door to door executing Palestinian women and children, and then run over their corpses with bulldozers (again).
Stateside: Trump administration rounds up every Palestinian and deports them to Israel. Most of them will never be seen again.
Trump administration rounds up any person who might be a supporter of Palestine and imprisons and/or executes them.
Trump administration rounds up all Arabs (including the ones who were born here), and deports them to an active battlefield.
I’m going to stop here because I’d rather not ruin my day more than it’s already been ruined.
If you’re gonna crow on and on about genocide, at least have a basic historic understanding of how these things always escalate. It’s not just an on or off thing.
Some of what you said is relevant, but none of it has to do with Palestinians. That’s my fucking point. I said a million times Trump is worse, but for Palestinians it makes no difference.
They are already working towards that, they’ve been annexing the west bank for a long while, and they don’t need US troops for it.
This is from 2020.
This is from July 2023.
Here’s an entire wiki page about all they’ve been doing since 1967.
The genocide is already happening. And again, whether US soldiers or just the IDF are involved is irrelevant for the people being killed, it only matters for the Americans being drafted.
They already don’t care, they’ve killed aid workers, journalists, and countless children. They’ve raped and tortured prisoners.
Exactly, “again”. Do I need to say more?
And everything after that is about what Trump will do to people in America, about which we agree on, and I’ve already pointed out several times is not my point. My point is, for the last time, Trump is not materially worse for the people living in Palestine than Kamala, and pretending that he can do worse to them is to whitewash what is currently happening and to downplay the decade long genocide.
My friend, he wasn’t become president yet. Come back in 6 months when Gaza is nothing but a steaming pile of debris and revisit this conversation.
I have news for you.
That was 11 months ago.
Here we go again with the “it can’t get worse” bullshit. Netanyahu will eliminate the Palestinian people completely.
He’s already working towards doing that. What I have asked, repeatedly, and which neither you nor anyone else has even tried to answer, is how, concretely, is Trump going to make it worse than it already is? I’ll repeat myself for the millionth time: a bomb will kill regardless of whether it was supplied by Bide, Kamala, or Trump. A bomb will turn things to rubble no matter if it was supplied by Biden, Kamala, or Trump.
So once again, repeating myself like a mad person, tell me concretely - stop giving vague as fuck answers - concretely, what can Trump do to materially make Palestinian’s life’s worse?
Because you fall into the same “but what about?!”-thing modern far right excels at.
You myopically focus on a single issue, trying desperately to use it as a crowbar to dislodge an otherwise sensible point, ignoring that everything is inherently a compromise, in particular in a 2-party system. Hence any voter who is not as easily blinded - and it’s not like Harris wasn’t very open during speeches about how much the right deals in fearmongering and disinformation, going as far as openly mocking people for made-up bullshit stats they’re yelling - would be able to inform themselves and realize that:
So, even if we were to just focus on this particular issue, the voters very much vote pro-genocide when they vote for Trump. I love how he’s technically correct though when he says he wants to end the war in Gaza, people are just too stupid to realize how he means it.
But more importantly, and the central point I’m making, you’re under the belief that reaction to a single issue should matter. Any voter who lets this argument slide has inherently lost themselves to the populist and fascist movements as they excel at exploiting this, and in fact stoke this belief whenever they can. Politics on a large scale cannot be judged based on single issues. Because if you try to, you exactly fall into this trap. You automatically end up being barraged by appeals to emotion, constantly, and you’ll let those decide things for you.
Hence, blaming the voters. For not actually engaging with the democratic process, just with hate- and fearmongering and then wondering why that that ended up controlling them when they sought it out themselves.
As I said in another comment, I don’t even think the Palestinian genocide is something the American people cares enough about. I can’t see how this single issue in isolation could have cost Harris the election, especially by such a margin. BUT, it informs how they think. And it shows. The Dems apparently thought that they could win the election by being as far right as they could get away with. It’s their failure for campaigning cowardly and saying always the safe thing that does well in focus groups. Every election they lose is a chance for the Overton Window to move to the right. They tried to capture votes from people from the right of them MUCH harder than from the left of them on almost every issue.
If a voter is already right leaning, especially in the USA, they won’t vote for Fascism Light, they will vote for Fascism Plus.
This is certainly not true. I understand the need for compromise but I also understand that there’s stuff one should not compromise about. Otherwise, what makes us different from the fascists if we’re willing to help kill an entire nation “on the other side of the globe” (as if distance makes their lives less valuable) if it serves us here?
I agree with you that voters have not engaged in the process and many failed to do the most basic of civil duties. But when it happens at such a scale something else is afoot. It was Harris’ election to lose and she did.
You seem to have made many false assumptions about me but still, genuinely, thanks for the reply.
Oh yeah sorry, I should have been clear about this: I wasn’t talking specifically about you, english is not my primary language and it sometimes becomes easier to write that way and I do it automatically. Thank you for not being offended by it. >.<
Learn something from this…?
To what end? For what point? There isn’t an “undo” button on fascism.
It’s funny how common this sentiment is though. My dad started voting for the AfD citing similar words. The very same people do not even notice how this trains them in 3-4 steps to be a voter for a fascist party themselves, it’s why it is so genius/scary. They still think they’re doing the right thing, even when actively supporting what breaks their own ability of doing anything to begin with.
Really goes to show how strong a strictly-controlled corporate mass media with an inherent corporate agenda can be. Billionaires enjoy fascist or ultra-right control as it keeps them out of any external checks and balances. And with their influence on media by owning said media, they get to highlight individual issues and hype them up to be as dealbreaking as they want them to be, while burying a long list of individual good things that happens so that people never get into a positive attitude.
There was this fascinating summary a while ago how much the german SPD did to improve the situations specifically for those groups of people who the AfD bemoaned as being “forgotten about” in one of their polemics. And it was curious to see how little you hear about this simply because being a lot of individually small improvements over a certain number of years, there’s nothing big that has to be reported, and giant right-wing media conglomerates can hence easily bury the good news and focus on individual aggro issues instead.
People are also different nowadays because back a few generations ago when things went to shit, people pulled together and dropped their differences. Nowadays when things globally turn bad and hard times come up, everyone segregates and starts blaming everybody else instantly, which again just makes them very vulnerable to fascism.