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Yeah, no, using a finite number to try and disprove a theory that is all specifically about infinite numbers isn’t poking holes in anything…
It’s more a “yeah, but…” than a refutation.
Trash “research” and trash journalism covering it. First they find that monkeys would write Shakespeare, it would just take on average longer than the entire existence of the universe. They then try to infer that how long it takes is relevant. It is not. The calculation is vaguely interesting as a curio but the shoehorned “discussion” and interpretation to get attention is crap and another example of bad science misleading people.
It’s pointless and stupid - the thought experiment itself is that infinite monkeys typing would eventually type the whole of Shakespeare. Not how long it would take. The whole point of it is that in a truly random system all known patterns should eventually emerge somewhere within it. The length of time it takes for the pattern to emerge is irrelevant as the idea is based in infinity. So for example if there is a truly random infinite multiverse then in theory all imaginable possibilities would exist somewhere within it at some point.
The whole point of it is that in a truly random system all known patterns should eventually emerge somewhere within it.
So pi (probably) has this property. There are some joke compression programs around this (they don’t really work because it takes up more space to store where something in pi is, than storing the thing itself). But it is funny, to think that pi could theoretically hold every past, present, and future piece of information within those digits after the decimal.
https://github.com/philipl/pifs
https://ntietz.com/blog/why-we-cant-compress-messages-with-pi/
Also interesting is the notion of ‘Kolmogorov Complexity’ - what is the shortest programme that could produce a given output? Worst case for a truly random sequence would just be to copy it out, but a programme that outputs eg. a million digits of pi can actually be quite short. As can a programme that outputs a particular block cypher for an empty input. In general, it is very difficult to decide how long a programme is needed to produce a given output, and what the upper limit of compression could be.
“Extremely unlikely” != “never”
It’s very unlikely to brute force modern encryption; but you might get lucky and crack it after only 3 or 4 tries. Just because there are 18 quadrillion+ possible permutations, doesn’t mean you have to go through all of them before you find the right solution.
Security is, and always has been, a matter of making your shit harder and take longer to break. Any security is penetrable, given enough time and willpower, just make sure it takes longer than it’s worth.
There are an infinite number of values between one and two and none of them equal three.
True and irrelevant.
Wasn’t the saying an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters? If so then they’d write Hamlet and indeed every other book written or ever will be written in however long it would conceivably take to type them out if you were copying them.
CLICKBAIT the theory goes “if given an infinite amount of time, a monkey pressing keys on a typewriter would eventually write the complete works of William Shakespeare.” and then they say that would take longer than the universe would exist. SEE THE ORIGINAL QUOTE… INFINITE TIME. Also that is if it went through every combination. Due to Random Chance it could happen the 3rd try of you doing it.
This is a nothing burger of a story about some mathematicians that crunched some of the numbers involved and didn’t like what they saw.
Awww, Muffin.
I mean we’ve not had infinite monkeys yet one of us already wrote Shakespeare’s works
That one wasn’t reeeeeeeeally writing at random though.
I think their research is empirically falsified already. If chimp = monkey, then “simian” is reasonable generalisation of “monkey” - also that reflects a lot of real english speakers usage of the words.
A less than infinite number of simians have already done it once.
Not to mention that I think they’re assuming no evolution. Fucking chriatian fundamentalists.
I’m not christian and I assumed the experiment didn’t allow for evolution as it was not specified in its parameters. I assumed that the monkeys were a horrible (and very wrong) analogy for random number generators, were immortal, and had no time for making offspring as they were all trained and consumed with typewriting, or physically separated from one another.
The monkeys would produce wildly more limited results than a random number generator mind you, and they are essentially frozen in evolutionary time, so they are not going to be writing shakespear.
A less than infinite number of simians have already done it once.
And how likely is it that it’ll be done again identically by a finite set of simians?
Thats not the point of the thought experiment.
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Given an infinite number of peers, any research paper can get peer reviewed
The time taken for “a” typing monkey? We have infinite monkeys! Why are we putting the entire burden on just one of them? One of them takes Hamlet, another takes King Lear, two of them collaborate to write Twelfth Night…
You have to realize, that with infinite time, if something has even the slightest chance of happening, it happens infinite times. So no, its not misleading, you have infinity for this to happen an infinite amount of times. Infinity breaks things.
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Literally, someone just wanted grant money or something.
Next they’re going to tell us that a bird sharpening its beak every thousand years wouldn’t wear out a mountain made of diamond.
It’s soft tissue from benares touching a mountain every century, right? A kalpa IIRC.
Yes, a different cuestion usually has a different answer
A stupid article akin to someone on Lemmy misunderstanding an idium and going “well actually…”.
And that’s coming from me, a person who likes knowing how insanely unlikely it is a guess ever longer and longer pass phrases. A computer trying to brute force Hamlet would also fail before the heat death of the universe (probably, anyway- do the math and you too can publish junk!).
FACT: 90% of typing monkeys quit right when they’re about to write Shakespeare.
Says descendant of monkey
Apes, actually.
So the researchers didn’t refute the assumption “given an infinite amount of time,” and instead chose to address the long finite-time case, which is fundamentally different.
