Michael Moore interviewed a bunch of GOPs of various ages. He separated them and asked the same question. “At what point did America veer off course?”
They all said the same thing; America was fine until they personally hit their 20’s. The ones born in the 1950s thought the 1970s were the problem, and the ones born in the Disco Era blamed the Clinton years.
It REALLY veered off course in 2016. I was in my 30s. I already had kids. I used to vote split ticket. Now straight blue. A lot of the negative things about Trump came about before the 2016 election.
The 2000 election and Citizens United were terrible. I remember Palin’s nonsense might have cost McCain the election. That was an easy choice considering his age. My thought was, if he dies in office miss “I can see Russia from my house” response to foreign policy platform would be POTUS. No thanks. Now the GOP all seem to support Trump and his obvious fascism. Nope. The GOP needs to die and the Democrats need complete control for a cycle and should institute a popular vote using ranked choice for president.
ETA: After the changes, the Democrats would inevitably split into multiple parties, including a conservative party.
I’d say the us began veering off course before I was even born, starting in 1981 with Reagan. 2001 was another point that escalated the decline of the US with the bush years. 2017 was just the icing on the shit cake for this country.
2025 is looking like it’s going to be the nail in the coffin :(
I agree. Nixon was simply a bad president, but Reagan was the start of “the government is bad by definition”.
Nixon was simply a bad president, yes, but Nixon’s election campaign popularized the “Southern strategy”. Republicans at the time weren’t particularly popular in the South because–as they’ll happily tell you–Lincoln was a Republican; so they started flirting with racism and courting Southern voters by openly hating black people. It allowed Nixon and others to win elections in the South and became a mainstay of Republicanism. It was the Republican party’s first major foray into fascism which relies on misinformation and manipulation of people through their worst impulses.
Since that worked, they’ve only gotten worse. The Southern Strategy, which began before I was born, is where I peg the start of the collapse of progressive politics.
BTW, until that time Democrats were doing it. The parties pretty much traded places on their stances toward race over the course of a couple of decades. So you could also argue that things have gotten neither better nor worse. If so, that doesn’t exactly fill me with enthusiasm for our future.
Also, Nixon sabotaged the negotiations to end the Vietnam war so that he could run on ending it. And then, when he won, didn’t want to actually end it because he was worried about being known as a president who lost a war.
So first he caused more people to die so he could make a campaign promise. Then even more people died when his ego couldn’t handle keeping that promise.
And then Ford was almost as big of a piece of shit for pardoning him.
I was surprised to learn that Nixon carried the electoral college 520 votes to 17. Looking back now, obviously Nixon was a deeply unpopular president, so I was shocked learning that he was elected in one of the biggest landslide victories the US had ever seen.
I’d argue a lot of our current problems are directly descended from Nixon being pardoned and facing 0 consequences for his crimes.
1912, when we elected Woodrow racist ass Wilson, instead of Teddy. Wilson segregated the federal government, wrote Southern revisionism, funded and showed Birth of a Nation at the White House, commissioned the erection of a bunch of statues of traitors, refounded the KKK, oh and directly caused the European theater of WW2, The Cold War, and the spectre of Stalinism. He also let Sykes Picot through uncontested.
I think your scenario is very likely to play out, but in my mind the GOP won’t die, they will simply merge the neocons and neolibs into a formal pro-corporate party. Once the people have an actual left-of-center party to vote for that champions workers rights and other populist policies unencumbered, the political dynamics will shift very rapidly. This is why it has taken so long to occur - the dog and pony show of fake opposition prevents us from having that choice entirely.
Well, there’s some changes and dates that are independent from personal experience.
The Reagan administration surely turned a lot of things sour for a lot of people, worldwide btw.
When Reagan took office, “middle class” was still defined as one job supporting a family of four. In those days, $1 million was considered a great fortune. By the time Bush Sr. was done, middle class was two jobs to support the household, and $1 million was what a rich guy paid for a party.
This goes along with my initial reaction to OP.
I don’t think it was when they stopped being coddled. I think it was when they got an age to start paying attention to politics or reading the newspaper (or when they finally had the tools/faculty to understand what was going on).
When we pick up the paper for the first time with open eyes, we let out a collective “oh god…”
Unlikely they read it and understood it. The average American has a reading of comprehension no higher than 5th grade.
https://www.apmresearchlab.org/10x-adult-literacy
This limitation leads to anxiety and confusion due to a lack of ability to abstract.
They… Grew up and learned the world sucks so they need toake it worse?
I definitely thought things were fucked when I was in my 20s (Bush 2.0 era). Today I blame Reagan, though.
And every day, I wonder how the timeline looks if John Hinckley Jr. was a better shooter.
Pretty much the same.
Hinkley kills Reagan and Bush Sr. wins his election big the same way LBJ was pushed in by the post-Kennedy wave.
Hell, Bush would have given Nancy a Cabinet post
When Reagan came in , ‘middle class’ was still one job supporting a family of four. In those days, $1 million was a vast personal fortune.
By the time Bush Sr. was out, middle class was two incomes to run the family, and $1 million was what a rich guy paid for a party.
I was a kid in 2000.
That’s when it really veered off course.
You grew up thinking Reagan was normal. He wasn’t.
I wasn’t around for Reagan, I was a Bush Sr. Baby.
I grew up thinking George W. Bush was fucked up as soon as I was old enough to have some semblance of political consciousness.
When I saw people treating him seriously after playing Fighter Pilot Barbie I knew things were going to go downhill fast.
And one of the core tenets of fascism is a patriarchal leader who takes care of everything, particularly the “ugly mess” that is blamed on the scapegoats of the day.
Yup, and it’s easy to just blame everything on the scapegoat. It’s all the
Jewsimmigrants fault.
My kid had a Halloween book taken from them because it offended someone. It had a witch on it.
It can be both.
I don’t get how this anecdote counters the idea that life was complex in the past, they just weren’t necessarily aware of it?
That is hilarious (and sad)! I had a similar problem when I was a kid! Grew up during the “comics and video games baaaad” era so concerned parents went into libraries stealing comic books and anything that looked satanic.
They really shit their pants when Harry Potter came out.
There was a huge moral panic about dungeons and dragons.
I’m always telling the kids this. You don’t have to worry about it right now you’re just a kid, but one day you will so be aware. I can’t count the number of times I’ve said that or something akin to it.
Just last night my kid said “You’re an adult, you can do whatever you want.”
I said “If I could do whatever I want I’d be sitting naked on the couch with a beer, not hosting your Halloween party.”
Por que no los dos?
because probably the law
That’s Man’s law, not mine
I’m not sure kids want fascism.
Just like their idea of God is a magical version of their Dad, they also desire their candidate for president to be someone that reminds them of their daddies.
I’ve noticed that so much rigid/conservative thinking on a personal scale (the kind almost everyone commits from time to time) revolves around a discomfort with the squishy, uncertain, social, and decidedly organic work of figuring shit out and never being quite sure if you’ve got it right.
It’s like an inability to admit that while you don’t have all the answers, you’re still willing feel uncomfortable and try your best to get it right.
This isn’t just an idea. Aligning behind a guiding father figure is one of the textbook elements of the authoritarian right. It’s not even like this would be eye-opening to them. It’s a legitimate life choice, just like aligning yourself under god.
Television was a more wholesome and the internet wasn’t accessed by most people. What was projected to us was a lot different. It goes to show how media affects us
The big irony here is this is a very simplistic take on a potentially complex topic.
Globalisation marches on, swallowing languages and cultures. Conservatism is necessary to preserve diversity long term.
To be clear, I am not trying to insinuate there are not many things completely and absolutely abhorrent by modern day conservatism.
Conservatism is necessary to preserve diversity long term.
L.
O.
L.
Because if there’s anything conservatives are known for, it’s tolerating diversity. We surely wouldn’t have a diverse group of monoculture countries, nope.
So, conservatism preserves diversity by… (checks your comment) …limiting the intersection of different cultures.
Even by your description, conservatism sounds like a plague of xenophobia and racism.
Maybe it’s time to marginalize conservatism so we can marginalize the racism and xenophobia that comes with it.
This is probably not the right place for such a comment. You are expected to agree.
… With unlimited power and no consequences.
