Maybe a bit more parenting could have helped. And not having a fricking gun in your house your kid can reach.
On and regulations on LLMs please.
He ostensibly killed himself to be with Daenerys Targaryen in death. This is sad on so many levels, but yeah… parenting. Character .AI may have only gone 17+ in July, but Game of Thrones was always TV-MA.
Issue I see with character.ai is that it seem to be unmoderated. Everyone with a paid subscription can submit their trained character. Why the Frick do sexual undertones or overtones come even up in non-age restricted models?
They, the provider of that site, deserve the full front of this lawsuit.
Maybe a bit more parenting could have helped.
No.
If someone is depressed enough to kill themselves, no amount of “more parenting” could’ve stopped that.
Shame on you for trying to shame the parents.
And not having a fricking gun in your house your kid can reach.
Maybe. Maybe not. I won’t argue about the merits of securing weapons in a house with kids. That’s a no-brainer. But there is always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.
On and regulations on LLMs please.
Pandora’s Box has been opened. There’s no putting it back now. No amount of regulation will fix any of this.
Maybe a Time Machine.
Maybe…
I do believe that we need to talk more about suicide, normalize therapy, free healthcare (I’ll settle for free mental healthcare), funding for more licensed social workers in schools, train parents and teachers on how to recognize these types of situations, etc.
As parents we do need to be talking more with our kids. Even just casual check ins to see how they’re doing. Parents should also talk to their kids about how they are feeling too. It’ll help the kids understand that everybody feels stress, anxiety, and sadness (to name a few emotions).
Yes parenting could have helped to distinguish between talking to a real person and a unmoving cold machine.
And sure regulations now would not change what happend, duh. And regulations need to happen, companies like OpenAI and Microsoft and Meta are running amok, their LLMS as unrestricted they are now are doing way too much damage to society as they are helping.
This needs to stop!
Also I feel no shame, shaming parents who don’t, or rather inadequate, do their one job. This was a presentable death.
Yes parenting could have helped to distinguish between talking to a real person and a unmoving cold machine.
Hi, I’m a psychologist. I am not aware of peer-researched papers which reach the conclusion that, for all disorders that involve an unsatisfactory appraisal of reality, parenting is a completely effective solution. Please find sources.
This falls into the field of Media Literacy.
If someone is depressed enough to kill themselves, no amount of “more parenting” could’ve stopped that.
Parents are supposed to care for their child and look out for them. If you kid gets depressed enough to kill himself and you’re none the wiser at any point, I’d say more parenting is very much needed. We’re not talking about someone that cut contact with everyone and was living on their own, slowly spiralling there. We’re talking about a 14yo kid.
Look, I get where you and others are coming from. But the thing about depression and suicide is that it’s not a one-size-fits-all thing. It comes in all shapes, sizes, and forms.
You’d be surprised how many people you might know who are depressed and/or suicidal, but look normal. There is a Grand Canyon sized stigma to being depressed and suicidal, and a lot of people will do everything they can to mask it so that they aren’t a burden to their family and friends.
I know, because I speak from decades of experience.
I understand what you mean. There is an important point here though; we’re not talking about friends, coworkers, that random barista, or anyone else finding out about you after the fact. We’re talking about parents and their kid.
And I’m not saying it is easy either. But it is the role of parents to look after their kid when they’re young. Nobody’s saying that’s easy, and nobody’s saying that some random busybody should have seen the sign. We’re talking about people that should have been the closest and the most warry about this situation.
It certainly is possible to miss it. But if the closest, most concerned, most incentivized to care people are not enough to at least have some fleeting suspicion about their kid’s behavior, then we may as well pull the collective plug of our specie outta the wall.
The fact that stupid low effort comments like this are upvoted indicates that Lemmy is exactly the same as Reddit.
Platforms change, people don’t. Shocking, no?
Maybe a bit more parenting could have helped.
Yes, maybe that would have made you a better person.
We are playing with some dark and powerful shit here.
We are social creatures. We’re primed to care about our social identity more than our own lives.
As the sociologist Brooke Harrington puts it, if there was an E = mc2 of social science, it would be SD > PD, “social death is more frightening than physical death.”
…yet we’re making technologies that tap into that sensitive mental circuitry.
Like, check out the research on distracted driving and hands-free options:
Talking to someone on the phone is more dangerous than talking to someone in the passenger seat. But that’s not simply because the device is more awkward. It’s because they don’t share the same context, so they plow ahead with conversation even if the car ahead of you brakes suddenly, and your brain can’t help but try to keep the conversation flowing even as your life is in immediate danger.
Hands-free voice control systems present a similar problem, even though we know rationally that we should have zero guilt about rudely interrupting a conversation with a computer. And again, it’s not simply because the device is more awkward. A “Wizard-of-Oz paradigm” perfect voice control system had these same problems.
The most basic levels of social pressure can get us to deprioritize our safety, even when we know we’re talking to a computer.
And the cruel irony on top of it is:
Because we care so much about preserving our social status, we have a tendency to deny or downplay how vulnerable we all are to this kind of “obvious” manipulation.
Just think of how many people say “ads don’t affect me”.
I’m worried we’re going to severely underestimate the extent to which this stuff warps our brains.
I was going to make a joke about how my social status died over a decade ago, but then I realized that no, it didn’t. It changed.
Instead of my social status being something amongst friends and classmates, it’s now coworkers, managers, and clients. A death in the social part of my world - work - would be so devastating that it motivates me to suffer just a little bit more. Losing my job would end a lot of things for me.
I need to reevaluate my life
What we need is a human society predicated on affording human decency, rather than on taking it away to make profit for those who already have the most.
Is Megan being sued for negligent parenting, not getting her child and/or being appropriate emotional support, and keeping an unsecured firearm in the home?
She details that she as aware of his growing dependency on the AI. She indicates she was aware her son knew the location of the firearm and was able to access it. She said it was compliant with Florida laws, but that seems unlikely since guns and ammo need to be stored in separate, secure (typically locked) locations, and the firearms need to have trigger locks on them. If you’re admitting your mentally unstable child knows the location of a firearm in your home and can access it, it is OBVIOUSLY not secured.
She seems to be saying that she knew he could access it, but also that it was legally secured. I find it difficult to believe both of those facts can be simultaneously true. But AI is the main problem here? I think it’s obviously part of what’s going on, but she had a child with mental illness and didn’t seem proactive about much except this lawsuit. She got him a month of therapy and then stopped while simultaneously acknowledging he was getting worse and had received a diagnosis. This legal filing frankly seems more damning of the mother than the AI, and she seems completely oblivious to that fact.
Frankly, and at best, this seems like an ambulance-chasing attorney taking advantage of a grieving mother for a payday.
It could be secured to hell and back, it’s all moot if he still has access, i.e. knows the combo, knows where the keys are, etc.
Yes, that’s my point. Once she became aware that her mentally disturbed child had access to the firearm, which she acknowledged, then it is no longer secured. She also never mentions that it was locked in any way, so I suspect it never was. Considering he found it when he found his phone, this sounds more like a drawer or somewhere she thought he wasn’t likely to look, but not somewhere that is actually locked. The idea that the ammo and firearm were secured separately and that additionally there was a trigger lock seems even more unlikely.
Sounds to me that: 1) she was aware her child was having mental health issues. 2) she was aware it was getting worse. 3) she was aware he was becoming infatuated with the AI. 4) she was aware that the child had found and had access to a firearm. 5) she was aware her child’s mental health had been diagnosed by a mental health professional. 6) she did almost nothing about the things of which she was aware. 7) pikachu face better sue the internet!
And those are all things she quite literally describes as justification for suing. It’s completely bizarre and shows an almost complete lack of self awareness and personal responsibility.
If it’s a firearm then maybe the people who sell it should label it as such.
What are you even talking about. Did you just have an aphasia?
Ohh, lots of obnoxious warning labels on guns like they have on everything else, I like it. Make them orange and white and make sure they can’t be removed.
I haven’t read the laws, but I am willing to bet they say it has to be secured, but doesn’t say you can’t give the keys to a minor.
The Florida law clearly implies that if you have a child under 16 in the home, they must not have access to the firearm. Giving a minor keys would be considered giving access.
Regardless, the point is, a parent that gives a mentally unstable child access to a firearm and then sues someone else for their suicide is a hypocrite and shitty parent.
No argument on the second part. But not sure about the first. The laws “implying” something often isn’t enough to charge.
“Implying” is how laws work. You rarely have laws that spell out each and every specific and individual example. The spirit and the letter of the law for edge cases is worked out in specific cases. For the same reason no one is going to convincingly argue they don’t have access to their home because the door is locked if they have keys, having keys to locked gun storage is considered access. Primary access in fact. Having keys to a lock is considered prima facie “access” and is borne out in settled case law. It’s so obvious that it isn’t even argued otherwise except in extreme circumstances.
I bet there are people who committed suicide after their Tamagotchi died. Jumping into the ‘AI bad’ narrative because of individual incidents like this is moronic. If you give a pillow to a million people, a few are going to suffocate on it. This is what happens when you scale something up enough, and it proves absolutely nothing.
The same logic applies to self-driving vehicles. We’ll likely never reach a point where accidents stop happening entirely. Even if we replaced every human-driven vehicle with a self-driving one that’s 10 times safer than a human, we’d still see 8 people dying because of them every day in the US alone. Imagine posting articles about those incidents and complaining they’re not 100% safe. What’s the alternative? Going back to human drivers and 80 deaths a day?
Yes, we should strive to improve. Yes, we should try to fix the issues that can be fixed. No, I’m not saying ‘who cares’ - and so on with the strawmans I’m going to receive for this. All I’m saying is that we should be reasonable and use some damn common sense when reacting to these outrage-inducing, fear-mongering articles that are only after your attention and clicks.
A chatbot acts like a human, it’s also very supportive, polite, and courteous. It doesn’t get angry or judge you. This can affect one’s mind in a way that other things you’ve mentioned like a Tamagotchi, a pillow, or a self-driving car can’t. We simply can’t compare AI to these things. Adults fall for this, let alone teenagers who are fueled by extreme levels of hormones.
We simply can’t compare AI to these things.
You just did. Comparing means analysing differences. You pointed out the differences between the two, which is comparing.
Thank you for your invaluable contribution to this conversation.
All I’m saying is that we should be reasonable and use some damn common sense when reacting to these outrage-inducing, fear-mongering articles that are only after your attention and clicks.
Based and true.
Does your tamogatchi encourage you to commit suicide so you can join it and demand it be the only important thing in your life while sexting you? These are things that if the adult human programmer did, they would be liable both criminally and civilly. Just being AI doesn’t give it a free pass.
No thanks, i just want to make out with my Marilyn Monrobot
This timeline is pure, distilled madness
He’s from Florida. I think that’s where the time rift is
Having spent more than enough time down there, I’d have to agree.
A Florida mom
It’s always Florida.
Sounds like when someone suicided because “judas priests music had satanism played backwards in it”
Yeah it was totally the fault of music, the AI, videogames, reading, drinking tea, …
Fr, the headline doesn’t even mention that be shot himself with a legally owned gun, for example.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot…The court should laugh the lawsuit out of the court house.
Sewell Setzer III – remember his name. Killed by AI.
I thought he killed himself. Ah well, maybe I didn’t read the article carefully enough.
The AI told him to kill himself so he could be reincarnated in a parallel universe where Game of Thrones is real and he can fuck Daenerys Targaryen.
