I like to rag on Amazon as much as the next guy here, but this article seems a tad misleading. They do still show up when you plug them in. The article even says they use MTP now instead of functioning as a direct USB mass storage drive, which means you can still plug them into your PC and transfer files though File Explorer. Android handles USB file transfers the same way, and that works fine.
So, basically the whole article is just a complete nothing-burger.
Sounds like a regular internet article to me.
Good call out. Clickbait article.
………. So is there any attempt by Amazon here to limit users transferring their ebooks to their computers?
In short, no.
What’s changed here is now the Kindle and PC will actively communicate with each other during file transfers with MTP instead of the Kindle “pretending” to be a USB flash drive with USB mass storage. There are some important trade-offs that come with the switch to MTP but nothing that will stop you from transferring ebooks to or from a computer.
Nice one thanks for clarifying. Sounds like a relatively minor change?
Pretty minor as long as your computer’s OS supports MTP, which most do, except for MacOS. If you’re a Mac user, you’ll need 3rd party software like Calibre or Android File Transfer for it to show up, but if you’re the kind of person who’s transferring books to and from your Kindle over USB, you’re probably already using Calibre anyway.
Yeah, until they tweak this:
Media Transfer Protocol (MTP) over USB Mapping
The MTP extension defined in this section provides a mapping of WMDRM: Network Devices Protocol messages to the Media Transfer Protocol (MTP). The WMDRM: Network Devices Protocol extension to MTP defines operations that enable DRM-protected content to be securely transmitted from the transmitter to the receiver.
The Kindle doesn’t use Windows Media DRM for its DRM protected ebooks, they use Amazon’s own DRM. Even if they did use WMDRM though, this is just an extension for MTP that would enable it to be used for streaming WMDRM content. It “provides a mapping of WMDRM: Network Devices Protocol messages to the Media Transfer Protocol (MTP)” and that’s necessary because MTP would otherwise not provide the data necessary for for the DRM protected content to play.
There’s still nothing here that would prevent you from copying your own “legitimately obtained” epub files or Amazon-encrypted AZW files to or from your PC.
I see this article is the first result when searching “MTP DRM” on Google though 😉
First step is to make it able to transfer DRM, second is to implement it only allowing DRM.
I don’t think they would invest money into something that they wouldn’t have to change if they didn’t try to get control over your data transfers, and the only logical reason I can see is DRM. They’re expecting a return of investment for every penny they spend.
USB protocol isn’t broken, so why would they change it?
What would be other reasons that make this investment worthwhile to develop their own protocol?
Microsoft’s solution above is tacked-on and inelegant, it’s a bandaid to fix a problem with WMDRM that MTP devices were causing in the first place. MTP wasn’t built for enforcing DRM and and Amazon would just be setting themselves up to face the same issues if that was their goal here. Also, unlike Microsoft, they don’t have the advantage of being the original creators of MTP. If they did want a completely DRM controlled environment, turning the Kindle PC app into something more like iTunes where it’s the only program able to communicate with Kindles would have been a much better first step than implementing an industry standard file transfer protocol. They could have jumped straight to your second step like that.
My best guess as to why they’re making the switch to MTP is because USB Mass Storage currently requires them to maintain a separate partition with a fixed size formatted in
NTFSFAT32 on a Linux-based device just so it can occasionally be exposed to a PC it’s plugged into, and that’s… kinda stupid. MTP provides them the option to just not do all that. MTP is the standard mobile devices use these days, it’s going to be easier and cheaper for them to develop around and they won’t need two different file systems and partitions on one device anymore.Kindles have an NTFS partition? I thought they use FAT32 so they’re compatible with Linux, MacOs and windows.
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Reminder: don’t buy things from Amazon.
Like, anything.
“But fast shipping!” No. Stop. Most places now have pretty good shipping, often for free if you happen to buy a certain amount. It’s OK if the thing comes in 3-5 days and not tomorrow. You will survive.*
*I know there’s a couple of niche cases where some people do need things quick and Amazon serves that purpose. But 99.999% of things are not that.
Kobo and Boox are better at making eReaders anyway.
I never heard of Boox.
I might get the Palma to replace my nearly dead Sony Reader.
Thank you for bringing that brand to my attention.
One thing amazon does that’s really useful is shipping to whole foods where you can pick up your item instead of it coming to your door which is really useful if you know someone will try to look through your mail
Cut Amazon shopping and subscriptions out of my life years ago and haven’t regretted it.
Amazon is slower than pretty much everyone else in Germany, and it’s been like that for literal decades. To get almost universal next-day delivery nation-wide a shop needs to do exactly two things: Have the parcels ready by evening, and not be located in the absolute boondonks (which would mean two-day delivery).
Amazon, unless when ordering via premium shipping (included in prime but not worth it for that), takes days to even pack the parcel. Then they can spend a day or two sending it from one of their logistics centres to the other until handing it over to the actual parcel service.
What they do have going for them is the mindbogglingly huge selection. Pretty much the only upside, if you need five small things from what would be five different stores each having their order minimums for free shipping amazon is the sane choice.
Yeah, I try to avoid Amazon as well, and just cancelling Prime went a long way toward motivating me to shop elsewhere. But we still order from Amazon a fair amount (far less than before we cancelled Prime), it just takes a bit longer.
Very user-hostile, but very unsurprising.
Kindle hardware can be very nice, but almost every software decision is designed to keep users within their walled garden.
No epub support, no third party app support, no ability to load non-store audio, and now this. What a waste. These things could be so much more useful than they are.
Calibre has always been a small price to pay, but if sideloading goes away, I’ll certainly never “upgrade” again, and I’ll trash my 11th gen Paperwhite if they somehow make it stop working. Usable e-ink ereaders are even doable as DIY projects now, and Kobo will probably stay less closed-off than Amazon for a good while.
That said, reading the comments and the article it seems like as long as your OS (or some app) supports MTP, everything should still work more or less as it has, which is to say kind of annoying and with Amazon pulling little microaggressions like deleting your cover thumbnails, but overall sideloading should still function.
I bought 2 Kindle 4 and 2 Kindle keyboard on Ebay for $40 a couple years ago and couldn’t be happier.
I saw that, too. I haven’t had a lot of headaches with MTP using my Android devices, but I’m always surprised at how there always seems to be a plan to make my devices worse than they already are.
Glad I got a Kobo then.
Yep. Kobo is much better nowadays.
I’ve owned two Kindle devices over the years, and the ability to directly load content, without involving a third-party service, was a big part of what made them usable for me. If that feature is gone, these devices will no longer be viable for my needs.
And the enshittification continues…
I’m in the same position as you. From what I gather you can still transfer files, I’m still buying a kobo when my voyage bites the dust.
As noted elsewhere in the thread, they do support MTP transport, so it’s definitely not as user-hostile as it first sounded. Things like Calibre will still work. However, the fact that Amazon also removed the ability to download ebooks in the browser for offline transfer suggests where things are heading. IIRC kobos have some anti features of their own, but I don’t recall the details. I wonder if something like the Daylight DC-1 could be even better. It’s not just a nice reader, but a proper computer. At least, if it actually exists.
Comments on the article say that it’s not true, and new Kindles work exactly the way old ones do.
Seems like they don’t work exactly the same as they used to, as they now use MTP instead of USB mass storage, but while annoying, it’s generally a pretty trivial fix and your OS may already use MTP devices with no trouble. It seems there may be some other knock-on effects with fonts not sideloading right and needing a Calibre plugin to make pagination work how it used to.
So yeah, it’s getting worse, but Amazon hasn’t figured out how to bring the hammer down yet.
Kobo, folks. I’ve been there through three generations of devices. No regrets. Fairly hackable, sideload friendly, competitively priced.
Which model?
Anyone have thoughts between Kobo and Boox or ReMarkable?
I’m using a Boox Leaf 2 myself, it’s basically just an android tablet with an eink screen. I can load pretty much any eBook format, and you can put regular android apps from play store (or any other app store) on it as well if you want. And they have a microSD card slot available from the outside to expand storage.
All the hacks and mods people do to their kobo are not needed, because it’s supported by default on my Leaf 2.
Well that does sound pretty cool, I might have to take a closer look when I’m ready for another purchase.
Yeah that sells well for me too. I like that flexibility
Sounds pretty good but also battery intensive. How is battery life in this device?
IMO battery life is absolutely excellent, I brought it with me on a 2 week holiday last year, read for 30-90min almost every night and didn’t need to charge it during the trip or worry about battery life.
Wow. Now I’m impressed. I was set on a Kobo Libra, maybe even the Color, but this sounds great.
I’ve looked into those other brands but not recently enough to provide any meaningful comparison. (though I have this feeling that “remarkable is overpriced” is something I’ve heard a lot, but I could be wrong)
I’ve personally owned the Kobo Glo, Glo HD, and Libra 2.
For most of their devices (I can’t speak for current models one way or the other) you can swap out key bits of the software and enhance functionality via various hacks/mods. A lot of that is documented here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=223
You can also open them up and replace a standard SD card to boost storage capacity. (Again, I know this to be true at least through the Libra 2, I do not know about more recent models.)
The thing I got the most use from in the past was being able to swap out the sdcard on my Glo and Glo HD, but some folks really swear by the other various mods. I don’t have any complaint with the default reader software on the Kobo, so haven’t messed with swapping that out.
I have not messed with the SD card on the Libra 2 for two reasons - apparently doing so will mess up the waterproofing, and also because I’ve found 32GB to be sufficient for my purposes.
I appreciate the input! I admit to a knee jerk wariness of ReMarkable due to their pervasive advertising on Facebook back when. Ada on there are like a modern equivalent of As Seen On Tv
Kobo seems to consistently get positive comments in forums oth
I went with a Boox device recently and like it. Since it is just android you can load up all sorts of apps. I use it for various things other than reading books, for example with the Paprika app in the kitchen as a recipe display.
Android is a massive value add. I can’t tolerate it for my actual phone, but it’s just an absolutely huge step up from the other ereader OSes.
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I’m considering a Clara BW, just waiting to see if it’ll go on sale for Black Friday.
Kobo can connect to libraries via apps like Libby (or others), right?
Overdrive is the one I usually hear about, but in googling Libby it seems they are related.
https://help.libbyapp.com/en-us/6251.htm
https://help.kobo.com/hc/en-us/articles/4477058367895-About-the-Libby-app
Yes, w/ Overdrive (same org as Libby).
Excellent!
Sounds like time for some 3rd party bios flash…
What are people’s go-to for eBook buying stores? Preferably DRM free.
I try to not buy Kindle books but I usually end up back there as it’s either much cheaper (not just slightly) or can only be found there.
I usually just borrow e-books from the library, download as epub and strip the DRM from the file so I can read it, and return the eBook to the library right away for the next person to borrow it.
I’m too lazy, I just borrow from the library and use them on the device. Stripping the DRM takes some level of effort, and I don’t intend to keep the books anyway, so I just let the DRM do its thing and turn off the wifi so they don’t disappear until I’m done w/ them.
Works fine on my SO’s Kindle, and I’m considering getting a Kobo and hope it’ll work there.
I wouldn’t like the surveillance this would indirectly cause. My guess would be that a library app would need an internet connection… And I would not trust my reader to ever be online.
It needs an internet connection for the initial download and DRM check, but then you can go offline. So it doesn’t need a constant internet connection, only when you want to load new books onto it. I’ll have books on hold and checked out between times I access the internet to load books on (so I’ll load a few, go offline, once I’m done go online and fetch the books I’ve checked out in the meantime).
I have no issue w/ my eReader being online occasionally to fetch updates or get new books.
Well yeah, my issue is needing internet connection at all - as well as having my reading in the library app itself being spied on, even if my reader did have an OS I trust to be online.
And for me, I honestly don’t care too much if Libby knows what I read. If I did care, I’d just get DRM-free books, either legally or not, and bypass the library entirely.
I do just that. You do you. Even though the topics aren’t dangerous, I am still uncomfortable having them recorded tied to my passport.
Time to switch to lobo (supposed to be Kobo) when my current oasis dies
I know it’s a typo, but the image of Lobo, DC’s heavy metal space biker, reading books to someone while they lie in bed is hilarious.
Well now I have to leave the typo hahaha
I have 5th gen PW and I never turned off Airplane mode. It’s a damn good device: great backlight, simple UI, ridiculously good battery life…etc
But if this no usb nonsense continues, I’m never going to buy Kindle again.
Good thing is that Kindle lasts for decade. My previous Kindle served me well for 10 years.
edit: Nevermind, found this reddit post that it’s just showing up as an MTP device and that Calibre works just fine.
Article says you cannot side load books on Apple Books. That is incorrect. You just send an epub to books via the share menu on Mac or iOS and it loads it. Also syncs it via iCloud if you want it to.
Perhaps the author meant you cannot download purchased books off of Apple Books.
Article is wrong about many things, seems poorly researched or the topic not fully understood by the author
any time you buy DRM’d content you’re subject to revocation of rights to use it. So buying such content along with purchase of devices geared specifically for DRM-only content is doomed from the beginning.
Another reason to avoid kindle like the plague.
YAR HAR FIDDLE-DEE-DEE 🎶 BEING A PIRATE IS ALRIGHT WITH ME 🎶
