• Imagine for a split second that the strongest government in the world is constantly attempting to cause the overthrow of your legitimately popular government, despite it being popular and significantly beloved by almost all people there. This external, most powerful government in the world tried to cause unrest in every possible way, including funding all opposition groups and organizations regardless of their violent/genocidal intent (e.g. Falun Gong, Islamic terror groups) and cause unrest on your borders (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Korea).

              What do you do? When good faith polling shows that you’re popular and fulfilling the needs and desires of your country’s working class but a foreign press tries to speak about the terribleness and need for overthrow, do you just let that happen with more money and propoganda than you can possibly provide to support yourself? Or do you censor the BS and report to your population that these images/ideas/orgs are actually subversive and attempting to change the government they legitimately love.

              In this hypothetical situation, what do you propose? Allowing the propaganda but claiming it’s wrong has failed in many projects, and resulted in massacres once fascism won (Chile, Indonesia). Just trying to set up a wall of no information works for a bit, but info can cross anyways (USSR). Allowing limited access if you search for it but not allowing it’s widespread propagation is the method of china. A VPN allows you to see it all, but it can’t be spread too widely before it is stopped from being viral.

              Do you have a better solution? Because this is how China presents itself and how the Chinese population sees it

            • YaaAsantewaa
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Unlike in China, the people here actually have the right to vote. That right does not exist in China

              • brain_in_a_box [he/him]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                40
                ·
                1 year ago

                What are you talking about? Of course the people in China have a right to vote.

                Honestly, how did you come to be so confidently incorrect about this? You would have to have done no research at all to think the people of China don’t vote, but a normal person who has done no research about a subject will have the humility not to assume they know what they’re talking about.

              • GaveUp [she/her]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                39
                ·
                1 year ago

                It’s okay to admit you don’t know something. Like the other person said, Chinese people can vote

                Learn yourself so that you can make informed opinions

                It’s better to have no knowledge than negative knowledge (knowing “facts” that are completely wrong because of a gut feeling assumption rather than any evidence or research)

            • Duamerthrax@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              And in hindsight, not such a great person. Or at least had a lot of negatives to go along with his positives. Probably best to hard code not only a term limit, but an age limit on elected officials. I’m tired of the world being run by geriatrics. Culture seems to be consistently 20 year ahead of government.

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                9
                ·
                1 year ago

                Term-limits are blatantly anti-democratic and age limits are clumsy, but a cognitive evaluation and probably an MRI would be good for rooting out cases of cognitive decline.

                There is an informal age limit in China and Xi is still below it, though just barely. I’m curious if he’ll go for another term after crossing it. I think he understands that he needs to retire sometime – no one wants to become a late '60s Mao.

        • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          69
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Do you not know what the structure of China is?

          Serious question, do you? When I criticise the US I do so from a position of knowing how power works between its three branches of government, how the senate works, how local governance works, how elections work, how the courts work. Do you know how China conducts any of these? Do you know how they govern 1.6billion people?

          • Dr. Bluefall@toast.ooo
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            1 year ago

            It’s a one-party state with all candidates chosen by the party.

            It may wear the skin of a democracy, but it is not a democracy.

            • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              63
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              It’s a one-party state with all candidates chosen by the party.

              It may wear the skin of a democracy, but it is not a democracy.

              This is the vaguest description ever and it’s not even correct with the vague points. There are multiple parties, and given that there are multiple parties the candidates certainly aren’t chosen by one party.

              How are candidates chosen? Who elects them? When are elections held? What is the structure of the elections?

              Do you know any of these things? Serious question. Have you ever investigated and learned this topic thoroughly? You know how the US system works I assume, I bet you vaguely understand some other systems too, like parliamentary ones such as the UK (or not, could be wrong). Have you ever actually investigated the topic or have you just passively repeated vague statements made by other people who are also passively repeating vague statements about it?

              If you want me to I can in fact give you a fairly good summary of how the Chinese system actually works. But do you even want to know? Are you actually open to learning?

                • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  33
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Though, in fairness, red man is actively hostile to LGBT people, migrants, and women whereas blue man is content to let LGBT people, migrants, and women suffer via apathetic neglect instead.

                  Truly a vibrant political system.

                • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  25
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Two Jews meet on the U-Bahn in 1935. One is reading a Nazi newspaper. His friend asks him “how can you read those outrageous lies about us?!” He replies “If I read a real newspaper, its persecution this and deportation that. But in this paper? We own all the banks, the movies, the government!”

                  • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Classic but red flag (lol) conspiracy theory vibes in this context. Jewish people owning China or vice versa? Either way fits more in line with qanonists

            • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              57
              ·
              1 year ago

              It’s a one-party state with all candidates chosen by the party.

              I much prefer all those two or three party states where the candidates are chosen by their respective parties on the marching orders of the capitalist class

            • Kuori [she/her]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              51
              ·
              1 year ago

              lmao dog you shoulda just said “i don’t know anything about that, why don’t you tell me?”

              it still would have taken you zero effort and you’d have avoided embarrassing yourself

            • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              49
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              According to their respective peoples, China has an infinitely more vibrant and responsive democracy than the United States.

              I’d hate to think you’d be so blind to the irony of saying such a thing as ‘wearing the skin of democracy’ if you were living in the west.

              Either way I’d be ashamed to act like you have and speak despite having such ignorance about the Chinese system of democracy.

            • silent_water [she/her]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              22
              ·
              1 year ago

              the representatives are chosen by their parties in most countries, including the US. the difference is that in western “democracies” there’s two or more parties all representing the same interests - those of the capitalist class - posing the electorate with a false choice. how is this improvement?

    • UnicodeHamSic [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      32
      ·
      1 year ago

      Democracy ™️ brought to you by Yum brands Inc. Is infact everyone’s enemy. The Chinese process is infact more democratic. When you look at the way funds are apportioned and how often the legislation passed reflects the will of the people it is undeniable they actually have more democratic input in their system than we do.

    • Gsus4@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Meh, our democracy isn’t even that threatening to China (Taiwan’s is, it showcases a viable alternative to the CPC), they just had to leave us to our “contradictions”, they’d keep booming and we’d just keep buying their stuff while we eat each other alive, if China is doing this, they gotta be really desperate to turn Europe fascist again.

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        51
        ·
        1 year ago

        (Taiwan’s is, it showcases a viable alternative to the CPC)

        Throwing chairs at each other in the Legislative Yuan over who gets to be America’s most loyal running dog isn’t seen by anyone thing China as a viable alternative to governance.

        • Gsus4@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          It’s ok, Hu Jintao really didn’t mind being dragged off the stage like an idiot in a country where face is everything. China does settle fistfights in private, which does set a good example for the populace, ngl.

          PS: https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/面子:

          面子是人際關係中的一种现象,在東方等级观念较强的社会(如中國等)特別受到重視。具体定义不明,基本上意味给社会中每个人的尊重[1][2]。如果不给人面子,即是拆穿別人的面具,可能会引起报复。如果有面子,一般会被认为是社会地位较高,更受人尊敬,然而面子不够大,可能是因为在社会、经济等方面地位低下。“面子”是“社会脸面”,代表着个人在人生历程中由成就和夸耀所获得的名声以及被社会重视的声誉[3]。「厚顏」俗稱「不要臉」。

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            46
            ·
            1 year ago

            Aside from the racism of the “face culture” narrative, the guy is a dinosaur and notably not an official, just there as a matter of respect and legacy as a former President. We don’t really know what happened, but those meetings are long and the dude is probably senile, so he was probably getting helped off the stage by aides at around the time they expected from the outset.

          • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            44
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            in a country where face is everything

            In America no one cares about being embarrassed, that’s only compatible with the Asiatic brainpan!

            Toss Orientalism on your reading list:

            The term orientalism denotes the exaggeration of difference, the presumption of Western superiority, and the application of clichéd analytical models for perceiving the “Oriental world”.

            • Gsus4@feddit.nl
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Look, if I find it disrespectful and a scandal to watch that video, I assume that anybody who tends to value and respect the position, wisdom of their elders in an institution (more than us who throw them in nursing homes and ignore them forever) will find this pretty jarring for a well-functioning Chinese democracy.

              But you guys are hilarious, finding offense where none was given, you’re an amazing instance, I want you to know that, from the bottom of my heart.

          • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            38
            ·
            1 year ago

            treated like an idiot in a country where face is everything.

            哇,你真懂中国文化。只有我们中国人不喜欢丢脸,不像那些外国政治者。他们热爱在大家面前受困窘。

          • UnicodeHamSic [he/him]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            19
            ·
            1 year ago

            Did that sound like a thing that wasn’t wildly rascist when you wrote it? You can delete your comment. You simply can choose not to be rascist, it doesn’t cost you anything.