• ToastedPlanet
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    1 year ago

    But defend yourselves from what?

    Brigading, trolling and logical fallacies.

    the whole of mainstream American society is neoliberal

    The mainstream politicians definitely are. But polling suggests an overwhelming majority of Americans support progressive ideas.

    https://www.citizen.org/news/progressive-policies-are-popular-policies/

    Then consider speaking of them less presumptuously

    I’ll speak how I want thanks. I live in a free country.

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Brigading, trolling and logical fallacies.

      In order: learn how federation works, oh no you poor thing, and Ben Shapiro wants his shtick back.

      The mainstream politicians definitely are. But polling suggests an overwhelming majority of Americans support progressive ideas.

      You don’t need to tell a communist that the people are to the left of the politicians, but apparently a communist needs to tell you that as far as engaging with individuals go, that means shit if they are too occupied with the same “gommunism no food” talking points the politicians to their right fed them.

      As an aside, Denmark is still liberal, capital is the dominant power there as much as in the US.

      I’ll speak how I want thanks. I live in a free country.

      I said “consider,” you have the right to be willfully ignorant and undercut your professed interests, those freedoms are some of the few that really are protected in the US. Regarding speech, it is only free if it doesn’t matter and otherwise you’re in jail or shot, and you need only look at Assange for evidence of that.

      But please tell me how your country stands for freedom as it tirelessly works to oppress the bulk of the rest of the world, overthrowing whatever country it deems too much of a problem unless that country hardens itself remarkably against external threats. Huh, I wonder if there’s some throughline here?

      • ToastedPlanet
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        1 year ago

        Your argument is getting throughly scattered and devoid of meaning. You might as well say, “I’m trolling you.”, and save yourself the effort.

        I said “consider,”

        I did.

        But please tell me how your country stands for freedom as it tirelessly works to oppress the bulk of the rest of the world

        I don’t agree with the US cold war policy of toppling socialist countries and instating capitalist dictatorships. Thankfully modern US foreign policy is about supporting democracies. edit: spacing

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Do you, like, investigate any of this? Are you not familiar with the attempts to topple Venezuela, the brief coup government in Bolivia that massacred protestors, or anything that isn’t a White House Press Release? Do you think the bombs dropped on Yemen were for democracy? Do you think the continued colonizing of Palestine is for that purpose?

          • ToastedPlanet
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            1 year ago

            Weirdly I can see the actions you’re describing as wrong, but still understand the benefits of American democracy.

              • ToastedPlanet
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                1 year ago

                Twenty century US foreign policy was about supporting capitalism, not democracy. I assume you’re referring to the CIA lead coups in the 20th century that upended socialist countries. I would like to think we’ve learned from these mistakes in the 21st century.

                As for drone strikes in Yemen in the 21st century, which is what I think you are referring to, killing civilians is obviously wrong. I think not fighting terrorist organizations would also be wrong. It’s in the interest of democracies to fight back against terrorists.

                edit: Oh and I am ethnically Jewish, so I do have a lot of opinions about Palestine and Israel. Israel is an apartheid state, but I still believe in a two-state solution.

                • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  The coup in Bolivia and the more recent attempts on Venezuela were just a few years ago.

                  I assume with Libya and Syria you’d just accept the flimsy pretext the US offered like with Yemen despite the barbarous butchering of civilians in all cases. Do you think the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were also for democracy? Are you that far gone?

                  • ToastedPlanet
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                    1 year ago

                    From what I’ve read about Bolivia quickly sounds like that was a conspiracy theory from the dictator. I haven’t heard of any coup attempt by the CIA in Venezuela recently. At a glance there seems to be Silver Corp that did Operation Gideon. It’s not a state sponsored group. I don’t support the concept of just toppling one dictator in exchange for a US friendly dictator. The incentives a dictator has will inevitably lead them to side with other dictatorships over democracies regardless of who put them in power.

                    I disagree with drone strikes that killed civilians. However, letting terrorists like ISIS run around in Syria and Iraq and now Africa more recently, is a bad idea when they make it their business to butcher civilians for not being extreme as them.

                    I’m honestly not super familiar NATO’s intervention of Libya. I’ve read a bit. Sounds like it was bungled quite badly.

                    I mean Bush wanted to kill Saddam, because of the assassination attempt on his dad, Bush senior, by Saddam. The political reality is that we did bring democracy to those countries. I think what we’ve learned from Afghanistan and Iraq is that democracy cannot be forced. People have to want to live, die, and fight for it. And in the case of Iraq, democratic intuitions have to be maintained, or else the country will backslide to authoritarianism.