Nope, it will only intensify. Yahya Sinwar wasn’t some evil mastermind manipulating and controlling the Palestinian people, they have been fighting an existential war against a genocidal entity that has been exterminating them for nearly a century. You can’t get a ceasefire by killing someone beloved by the Palestinian people.
You can hate Sinwar if you want and celebrate if you wish, but the Palestinian people are not celebrating right now, they are mourning. Historically, deaths of Hamas leaders have only hurt ceasefire talks.
Comments like these are just supporting these kinds of heinous figures like him, and it’s just sad, and evil.
Yahya Sinwar wasn’t some evil mastermind manipulating and controlling the Palestinian people
This is a pure lie.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Sinwar:
“Sinwar planned the abduction and killing of two Israeli soldiers and the murder of four Palestinians whom he suspected of cooperating with Israel.”
“Sinwar was believed to have overseen the torture and execution.”
And this is just part of the list.
they have been fighting an existential war against a genocidal
There no genocide. Lie #2. This is not Israel’s goal in this war. Or ever.
I wasn’t making a moral judgement of Sinwar, but contextualizing the Palestinian view of him. Palestinians sided with Hamas and Sinwar because of Israel’s genocide against Palestine, Sinwar wasn’t some great and powerful manipulator able to trick an entire population. Again, I am not making a moral justification for Sinwar, I am explaining why this isn’t leading to a ceasefire.
Secondly, are you denying that Israel is committing genocide?
Third, Sinwar absolutely has positive views among Palestinians. The majority of Palestinians support fighting Israel, and the footage of him perishing on the front lines, in full combat garb, defiantly throwing scrap metal at the drone confirming his soon to be death, has fully disproven the idea that he was a coward hiding in a bunker this whole time. He is more popular now than ever before.
As an Irish person, you can’t end terrorism with violence. You just create martyrs to a cause, a cause which looks more and more legitimate the more civilians suffer and die because of said violence. “Kill the rebels” every 20 years did nothing for peace on Ireland for 800 years.
Israel has been supporting Palestinians such ash letting them work within Israel. But that didn’t help unfortunately.
The best solution is education. The hard truth is what they are being educated with: to terror and destruction or to peace and prosperity.
Saying that letting Palestinians work in their own ancestral land as precarious labour is “Israel supporting Palestinians”, is like saying that Apartheid South Africa was such a supportive institution for letting the blacks in Soweto work outside the fucking Bantustan.
At this point the Israelis have made the two state solution impossible because of their settling of the best lands of the West Bank in such a way that makes a contiguous truly independent Palestinian state impossible.
So the only way forward is Democracy with safety and equal rights for all, Jews, Muslims, Christians, and others from the river to the sea.
The Israeli right of the last 30 years has basically made it a choice between genocide and apartheid and the end of Zionism as we know it.
Stop making violence the only thing you’ll react to in any way? Or indeed, stop responding to peaceful resistance with violence (eg the civil rights marches in Northern Ireland).
It might seem like Palestine has been a hopeless mire forever, but there was a point in the 90s where the last reasonable leaders of both sides were coming together for a peaceful solution. Hamas and the Israeli right wing - the “both sides” of today - were on the fringe.
Then Yitzhak Rabin was killed by an Israeli right-winger, Israel inexplicably responded by killing a Hamas leader, Arab civilians were massacred at the Cave of Patriarchs by an American Israeli, and Hamas responded with more bombings, Yassar Arafat died under siege by the IDF, Hamas took control of Gaza, and well, here we are.
The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin is probably as impactful to history of that of Archduke Ferdinand, but seems to be being forgotten.
Rabin was murdered by a Likud fanatic with personal ties to Mossad. Israel disputes any involvement of Mossad. Before the murder, Likud and other fascists called for the murder of Rabin and depicted him as new Hitler. After the murder of Rabin Netanyahu took power. While there were supposed center or progressive governments in between Netanyahus reigns, they all continued the annexation of more Palestinian land to make a two state solution or any solution except ethnic cleansing and genocide impossible.
It is important to understand that all of Israels society has been poisoned into various degrees of fascism over the past 30 years.
Your fatal assumption is that the Palestinians want peace too. They were given pipes to create water lines, they turned the pipes into rockets. You can’t have piece when neither side wants it.
What do expect Palestinians to do? Do you want them to waste away drinking contaminated water because Israel attacked their sole desalination plant? That isn’t peace either.
This is what most westerners don’t understand. The Gazans were given everything they need in order to create a better future for themselves.
Instead of investing in infrastructure and education they went all in on digging terror tunnels, manufacturing rockets and brainwashing their children.
Yeah… Except this is total bullshit. There was an airport built in Gaza. Israel bombed it the next month to prevent Palestinians from ever developing outside of Israels occupational pressure.
The amount of food and building materials amd other essentials being allowed into Gaza was deliberately limited to slowly degrade the living conditions in a way easily ignorable by the West.
The smuggling Tunnels into Egypt were a great source of income for Hamas, by allowing people to smuggle in basic commodities.
Meanwhile Israels “mowing the lawn” always revolved around slowly destroying Gaza and not allowing for rebuilding. The difference now is that they removed all restraint as the US and allies are allowing the total annihilation of all infrastructure, ethnic cleansing and genocide with impunity.
the future that you speaking of called “west bank” where “Israeli occupier” put bounty on “indigenous Palestinian” homes for burning their cars or destroying their properties. Where the “Israeli occupier” open carry guns threatening or shooting “indigenous Palestinian” and if the “indigenous Palestinian” fight back in any form “since they don’t have guns” they get into a military court, then prison, maybe without a charge, then get raped in prison, based on “Israeli sources”
Pretending this not a case of apartheid genocidal military force is stupid considering the overwhelming evidence that you can find reading a few news article or maybe 5 minutes in Wikipedia.
If you are bored maybe you can watch this episode of Anthony Bourdain “Palestine parts unknown” aired in 2013 and ask yourself if that the past and the current living condition what makes believe this will help in anyway!
Fun fact, practically “indigenous Palestinian” consists of a diverse population of Arabs (i.e. Bedouin and Muslims), Jews, and Christians, Bedouin and more. So which do you refer to as “indigenous Palestinian”?
“Israeli occupier” is a pure propaganda. Israel received an official support for by the UN for setting up a state. Whoever was against it it’s his own problem. Israel has the right to be an independent heterogeneous multicultural and multi-religion state.
Not really likely. With all these kids and the younger generation terrorised/traumatized by Israel, hopes for a lasting peace is dim. Imagine your home and loved ones being torn into pieces right in front of your eyes by Israel all because of a terrorist attack that you played no part in. Now multiply this by tens of thousands…They will go on to be members or leaders of whatever terrorist/resistance organization follows hamas. It’s an endless cycle where only people on the very top take advantage off.
Fun fact, practically “Palestinian” consists of a diverse population of Arabs (i.e. Bedouin and Muslims), Jews, and Christians and more. So which do you refer to as “Palestinians”?
Sinwar was not a charismatic guy who brainwashed everyone into attacking Israel.
He WAS a charismatic killer who brainwashed into attacking Israel.
According tohttps://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/AHRC47NGO145_150621.pdf
“United Nations Watch is concerned that the Palestinian education system continues to
promote antisemitism and incite terrorism, including in schools of the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA).”
100%, everyone thinking Palestinians were duped by Sinwar into striking back at Israel has no knowledge of the history of Israel as a Settler-Colonial project.
Gaza Strip wasn’t a very joyful time even before the war. It was ruled by extremist religious terrorists that would literally torture, rape and kill you for whatever reason (like being gay).
Nobody’s arguing that. His death being good and the continued eradication of the Palestinian people by the IDF and Israeli state can coexist.
To be perfectly clear, since this is the internet and people can’t seem to have two concepts in their minds at once: The genocide of the Palestinian people needs to stop.
I think IDF also uses option B - explosives. Also very effective, since the only ones who get harmed by IDF weapons are Hamas, so everyone killed/harmed in the blast zone can safely be declared Hamas.
Edit: I apologize for my cynicism, but I struggle to be hopeful about the prospects of Israel making peace with its surroundings nations and occupied territories.
Hopefully now a better future for Palestinians and Israelis is ahead.
Nope, it will only intensify. Yahya Sinwar wasn’t some evil mastermind manipulating and controlling the Palestinian people, they have been fighting an existential war against a genocidal entity that has been exterminating them for nearly a century. You can’t get a ceasefire by killing someone beloved by the Palestinian people.
You can hate Sinwar if you want and celebrate if you wish, but the Palestinian people are not celebrating right now, they are mourning. Historically, deaths of Hamas leaders have only hurt ceasefire talks.
Comments like these are just supporting these kinds of heinous figures like him, and it’s just sad, and evil.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Sinwar: “Sinwar planned the abduction and killing of two Israeli soldiers and the murder of four Palestinians whom he suspected of cooperating with Israel.” “Sinwar was believed to have overseen the torture and execution.” And this is just part of the list.
Stop posting lies.
Don’t be daft, he’s explaining, not justifying.
I wasn’t making a moral judgement of Sinwar, but contextualizing the Palestinian view of him. Palestinians sided with Hamas and Sinwar because of Israel’s genocide against Palestine, Sinwar wasn’t some great and powerful manipulator able to trick an entire population. Again, I am not making a moral justification for Sinwar, I am explaining why this isn’t leading to a ceasefire.
Secondly, are you denying that Israel is committing genocide?
Third, Sinwar absolutely has positive views among Palestinians. The majority of Palestinians support fighting Israel, and the footage of him perishing on the front lines, in full combat garb, defiantly throwing scrap metal at the drone confirming his soon to be death, has fully disproven the idea that he was a coward hiding in a bunker this whole time. He is more popular now than ever before.
Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.
Nope, no joke.
As an Irish person, you can’t end terrorism with violence. You just create martyrs to a cause, a cause which looks more and more legitimate the more civilians suffer and die because of said violence. “Kill the rebels” every 20 years did nothing for peace on Ireland for 800 years.
Israel has been supporting Palestinians such ash letting them work within Israel. But that didn’t help unfortunately. The best solution is education. The hard truth is what they are being educated with: to terror and destruction or to peace and prosperity.
Saying that letting Palestinians work in their own ancestral land as precarious labour is “Israel supporting Palestinians”, is like saying that Apartheid South Africa was such a supportive institution for letting the blacks in Soweto work outside the fucking Bantustan.
What about the 900,000 Jewish exodus from the Muslim world? Is someone letting them work, or even enter, their own “ancestral land”? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
They’ll keep doing it so that they can have an out group to blame for people’s problems.
This sound like survivorship bias. We got rid of plenty of terrorists with violence you just don’t know about them because they’re gone
Well yes, the only way to erase a nation or culture’s hatred of your violence is with enough violence to literally genocide them.
But there really aren’t that many. You just put it down for a generation until it comes back, usually with a different name.
What’s the antidote for that then?
At this point the Israelis have made the two state solution impossible because of their settling of the best lands of the West Bank in such a way that makes a contiguous truly independent Palestinian state impossible.
So the only way forward is Democracy with safety and equal rights for all, Jews, Muslims, Christians, and others from the river to the sea.
The Israeli right of the last 30 years has basically made it a choice between genocide and apartheid and the end of Zionism as we know it.
So there.
Stop making violence the only thing you’ll react to in any way? Or indeed, stop responding to peaceful resistance with violence (eg the civil rights marches in Northern Ireland).
It might seem like Palestine has been a hopeless mire forever, but there was a point in the 90s where the last reasonable leaders of both sides were coming together for a peaceful solution. Hamas and the Israeli right wing - the “both sides” of today - were on the fringe.
Then Yitzhak Rabin was killed by an Israeli right-winger, Israel inexplicably responded by killing a Hamas leader, Arab civilians were massacred at the Cave of Patriarchs by an American Israeli, and Hamas responded with more bombings, Yassar Arafat died under siege by the IDF, Hamas took control of Gaza, and well, here we are.
The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin is probably as impactful to history of that of Archduke Ferdinand, but seems to be being forgotten.
Rabin was murdered by a Likud fanatic with personal ties to Mossad. Israel disputes any involvement of Mossad. Before the murder, Likud and other fascists called for the murder of Rabin and depicted him as new Hitler. After the murder of Rabin Netanyahu took power. While there were supposed center or progressive governments in between Netanyahus reigns, they all continued the annexation of more Palestinian land to make a two state solution or any solution except ethnic cleansing and genocide impossible.
It is important to understand that all of Israels society has been poisoned into various degrees of fascism over the past 30 years.
Help - provide food, housing, education. Stop dehumanizing people. Help them build a peaceful future. Everyone will benefit from that.
But that would require actual good will.
Your fatal assumption is that the Palestinians want peace too. They were given pipes to create water lines, they turned the pipes into rockets. You can’t have piece when neither side wants it.
What do expect Palestinians to do? Do you want them to waste away drinking contaminated water because Israel attacked their sole desalination plant? That isn’t peace either.
This is what most westerners don’t understand. The Gazans were given everything they need in order to create a better future for themselves. Instead of investing in infrastructure and education they went all in on digging terror tunnels, manufacturing rockets and brainwashing their children.
Yeah… Except this is total bullshit. There was an airport built in Gaza. Israel bombed it the next month to prevent Palestinians from ever developing outside of Israels occupational pressure.
The amount of food and building materials amd other essentials being allowed into Gaza was deliberately limited to slowly degrade the living conditions in a way easily ignorable by the West.
The smuggling Tunnels into Egypt were a great source of income for Hamas, by allowing people to smuggle in basic commodities.
Meanwhile Israels “mowing the lawn” always revolved around slowly destroying Gaza and not allowing for rebuilding. The difference now is that they removed all restraint as the US and allies are allowing the total annihilation of all infrastructure, ethnic cleansing and genocide with impunity.
the future that you speaking of called “west bank” where “Israeli occupier” put bounty on “indigenous Palestinian” homes for burning their cars or destroying their properties. Where the “Israeli occupier” open carry guns threatening or shooting “indigenous Palestinian” and if the “indigenous Palestinian” fight back in any form “since they don’t have guns” they get into a military court, then prison, maybe without a charge, then get raped in prison, based on “Israeli sources”
Pretending this not a case of apartheid genocidal military force is stupid considering the overwhelming evidence that you can find reading a few news article or maybe 5 minutes in Wikipedia.
If you are bored maybe you can watch this episode of Anthony Bourdain “Palestine parts unknown” aired in 2013 and ask yourself if that the past and the current living condition what makes believe this will help in anyway!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_bVSRlaIjw
Fun fact, practically “indigenous Palestinian” consists of a diverse population of Arabs (i.e. Bedouin and Muslims), Jews, and Christians, Bedouin and more. So which do you refer to as “indigenous Palestinian”?
“Israeli occupier” is a pure propaganda. Israel received an official support for by the UN for setting up a state. Whoever was against it it’s his own problem. Israel has the right to be an independent heterogeneous multicultural and multi-religion state.
Sounds like 'Merica!
Not really likely. With all these kids and the younger generation terrorised/traumatized by Israel, hopes for a lasting peace is dim. Imagine your home and loved ones being torn into pieces right in front of your eyes by Israel all because of a terrorist attack that you played no part in. Now multiply this by tens of thousands…They will go on to be members or leaders of whatever terrorist/resistance organization follows hamas. It’s an endless cycle where only people on the very top take advantage off.
This is a sad truth, and it can only be solved with education. Both states are traumatized. It’s time to come together.
Not while Netanyahu remains in power, he has no incentive to end this.
Netanyahu is indeed a problematic figure who take these situations into his advantage, maybe another would be better to make peace.
It’s the only way. The problem is that if he called an election tomorrow he would stand a good chance of winning it.
Neither does Israel in general, nor the US backing them.
Hamas was created as a reaction to Israel oppressing Palestinians.
The resistance will continue until the oppressors stop oppressing them.
Sinwar was not a charismatic guy who brainwashed everyone into attacking Israel. Israel oppressed Palestinians into violent resistance.
Fun fact, practically “Palestinian” consists of a diverse population of Arabs (i.e. Bedouin and Muslims), Jews, and Christians and more. So which do you refer to as “Palestinians”?
He WAS a charismatic killer who brainwashed into attacking Israel.
According tohttps://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/AHRC47NGO145_150621.pdf “United Nations Watch is concerned that the Palestinian education system continues to promote antisemitism and incite terrorism, including in schools of the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA).”
100%, everyone thinking Palestinians were duped by Sinwar into striking back at Israel has no knowledge of the history of Israel as a Settler-Colonial project.
I’m not sure the Palestinians will view being ethnically cleansed slightly less vigorously as a brighter future.
Palestinians have never been ethnically cleansed. There are also peaceful Palestinians that don’t want, and do want a brighter future.
Bold assumption to claim it will get less intense.
Gaza Strip wasn’t a very joyful time even before the war. It was ruled by extremist religious terrorists that would literally torture, rape and kill you for whatever reason (like being gay).
People somehow conveniently ignore this.
Indeed, one of them is the Islamic Jihad. I hope the Palestinians will have a positive government.
You conviently ignore that Gaza has been under Israeli occupation and siege since well before Hamas rose to power.
He was the mastermind behind the Oct. 7th attack. The world is a better place without him.
Yes, but the masterminds behind levelling Gaza are still at large.
Unfortunately.
Nobody’s arguing that. His death being good and the continued eradication of the Palestinian people by the IDF and Israeli state can coexist.
To be perfectly clear, since this is the internet and people can’t seem to have two concepts in their minds at once: The genocide of the Palestinian people needs to stop.
There is no genocide, there is no official source for that. War is bad, but this is not a genocide.
Who said anything about doing it slightly less? I haven’t heard that from the Israelis.
I am probably out of the loop but how does one go about Identifying a Palestinian without shooting everyone?
Point your Tavor at them. If they run, they’re Hamas. If they don’t, they’re well-disciplined Hamas.
Well I guess I am a Palestinian because if someone pointed a gun at me I would run.
I think IDF also uses option B - explosives. Also very effective, since the only ones who get harmed by IDF weapons are Hamas, so everyone killed/harmed in the blast zone can safely be declared Hamas.
/s
Edit: I apologize for my cynicism, but I struggle to be hopeful about the prospects of Israel making peace with its surroundings nations and occupied territories.