In reference to this thread:
- https://lemm.ee/post/44491669
- https://lemmy.world/post/20694710
- https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/23365372
Tl,dr:
- ClubsAll is a closed source platform which fetches Lemmy content
- ClubsAll however does allow Lemmy instances to federate its communities (!clubsall@clubsall.com gives an error, see https://lemm.ee/post/44491669/15374449)
- Comments from ClubsAll do federate to Lemmy communities: (https://lemmy.world/comment/12828092 / https://clubsall.com/posts/what-food-and-or-drink-will-you-eat-when-you-are-senile-and-forget-you-already-had-it-the-meal-before-oD_s4)
- It is not possible to host a ClubsAll instance at the moment
What do you all think about this?
Personally, I think it’s quite unfair for them to federate all our posts and comments, and make their platform appear busy, while they don’t allow federation of their own content, and they don’t allow self-hosting either.
If we imagine what could happen in the future
- As they are on ProductHunt, they manage to raise a few millions, hire devs, develop every feature you can think about under the sun
- Fediverse users move massively to ClubsAll to enjoy the new features, Redditors move too because it’s better than Reddit
- Over time, due to those new features and other “technical reasons”, federation with Lemmy and others becomes clunky, or completely stops
- Meta / Google / Reddit buys ClubsAll and start to look how to extract a profit from the large userbase, enshittifies the mobile app, the web interface, etc.
Seems to bring us back to the current Reddit situation with extra steps.
The Threads situation
I dont like the idea of defederation from a free speach perspective. But ive said this before and ill say it again. One direction federation is not federation it is theft.
Surly we can establiah a federation policy (across as many instances as nessasary) with the following:
- No federating content to or from any other instance in a single direction.
- No federating sponsored or paid content that is not marked as sponsored in both human and machine readable format.
- No federating with any instance that does not follow these rules.
- No using content if these rules are not complied with
I think we need to establish these 4 as the prerequisite of a continued open and free fediverse.
Nice proposal
Unless their users can interact here it’s going to be dead there
I just checked, it does federate:
- https://lemmy.world/comment/12828092
- https://clubsall.com/posts/what-food-and-or-drink-will-you-eat-when-you-are-senile-and-forget-you-already-had-it-the-meal-before-oD_s4 (sort by new)
Edit: also notice how the Fediverse link on LW does not work, it gives an error instead of redirect to the ClubsAll comment
Oh, so OP got it wrong?
I’m OP, I guess I wasn’t clear.
- !clubsall@clubsall.com does not work, the clubsall communities cannot be federate from Lemmy instances
- comments from clubsall do federate, as seen above
Ohh, sorry for misunderstanding
No worries, I edited the post, hopefully it’s more clear now
I have to open an account there to try, but I’m pretty sure they can.
Also, I forgot to point out that their interface is very fast and polished, and they have a few nice features (such as multicommunities, though hard-coded and not user-based). This might draw some users there.
If you do, let me know what instance those users post onto here. So I can block it
I was about to suggest Lemm.ee (as it’s the instance I post the most to) to actually defederate ClubsAll, that way it’s solved for everyone.
Hi everyone, I’m Vinay, the founder of ClubsAll. I’m happy to answer any questions and would like to address where I think ClubsAll might be misunderstood.
“I think it’s unfair for them to federate all our posts and comments, making their platform seem busy, while they don’t allow federation of their own content or self-hosting.”
I completely agree with this concern. However, it’s important to note that ClubsAll is still in its infancy. We currently have around 10 upvotes on Product Hunt, with a nearly non-existent active user base or content. So even if we implement federation, the activity level would be minimal for now.
“We could establish a federation policy across instances, ensuring no single-direction federation of content.”
This proposal seems fair. I’d like to suggest an additional condition: “No single-direction federation of content once an instance reaches a certain level of activity, say, X posts per day.”
The reasoning here is that new and small instances like ClubsAll need time to grow and develop their features before being subjected to such rules. This approach ensures that very young instances aren’t immediately blocked, especially when they might not have much content anyway.There’s also been talk about defederation. I want to be transparent – ClubsAll is bootstrapped and we have invested a lot of money and sweat to help the community. Right now even my developer has moved on, so new development has halted. This is why I was forced to launch.
If the community chooses to turn against ClubsAll, it won’t survive. That said, I’ll leave the decision to you. Defederation would immediately kill it. If defederation is the path chosen, then so be it.
We have invested a lot of money
Instant distrust there
If you assume that investment returns are only in dollars, then yes. Investments can be into non profits, communities etc. with non monetary returns like creating a community, gratification and so on. In this case, my long term goal (return?) is de-enshittification of reddit and hopefully more later on.
Hello,
Right now even my developer has moved on, so new development has halted. This is why I was forced to launch.
As stated on the other thread, do you know when you’ll be able to open source the project? Also, why were you forced to release it when your developer left?
Open sourcing is not time dependent. I just need
- a security review by someone experienced to make sure we do not instantly get hacked as soon as we open
- and some commitment to fix critical bugs and hacks that will kill ClubsAll or steal resources
why were you forced to release it when your developer left? I think I should have released much earlier and developed with input from community. So developer leaving was a trigger to do it. Also, sitting on it would just demotivate me, degrade the code and it would have possibly died a silent death before release.
The source not being open will not prevent attackers from trying to hack your website as it currently online.
If you need help with having a look at the code, you can probably reach out to people here. You might want to shut the website down during the review so that if an issue is discovered it won’t be exploited.
Agreed, closed source is not a guarantee, but it does help. We are not hacked so far, so that’s good enough for me :-)
you can probably reach out to people here
I have asked in this and other thread. Should I make a new post?
Making a new thread would probably be better, as it would have much higher visibility than a comment here :)
I think I might start adding a suffix to my posts
If you are reading this on CurbsAll, it was stolen from Lemmy.
I was thinking about this, but defederation might be simpler
