It’s easy to shit on everything, so I’ll try to avoid doing that.
I do genuinely not understand the blind “minimum wage should be this” angle. All raising the minimum wage does is raise expenses for everything. It’s pretty much like fuel costs: price of fuel goes up - your bakery, pharmacy, grocer, etc all raise prices and in the end it is those on the lowest income that get impacted the most.
A bit of a mind dump:
Most of us live in a capitalist system. You can dislike it all you want, but as someone who’s seen what happens when ownership isshared, everyone is equal, a cook should be able to run a country - fuck that. I’ll take bad capitalism over that nonsense any day.
Everyone should strive to improve themselves. Every day. Doesn’t have to be monetarily driven improvement - it’s the mindset of constant improvement that I want. And when that happens - aiming for minimum wage becomes a thing of the past.
Everyone is not equal. Everyone must be given equal opportunity. We’re good at different things, we absolutely suck at different things. Doesn’t mean we’re bad/wrong/mistreated if we try those things. What is wrong, however, is someone claiming they deserve something (great salary) when they suck at doing whatever they’re doing. Just go do something else; preferably something you’re good at.
Deep inside - we’re apes. We need to keep ourselves busy as otherwise brain starts overcompensating for lack of activity and we end up being idiots on the internet. Given enough time that leads to us being idiots outside the internet as well.
Mental health issues are real. They’re abused waaaay too much as an excuse to rot in the basement. Been there, done that. Start small, increment daily. Small, iterative steps. Everything takes time. Your choice on what gets your spend.
All raising the minimum wage does is raise expenses for everything.
Demonstrably false. Prices will always go up regardless. Nobody should have to work for less than a liveable wage. If you disagree with me you are a piece of shit.
If you work 40 hours a week you need to earn enough to live in the city where you do said work. Period.
Also, wages are only a small part of costs for pretty much everything. +10% wages does NOT mean +10% total costs for whatever that worker provides, and so does NOT mean +10% price, if the company is honest.
Now that my teens are working, I’m a bit uncomfortable with this. Does my teenager, whose living expenses are still fully paid by me, really need a living wage? We’re a $15 minimum wage so He’s excited about the money he’s making, but part of me feels like he’s taking some of that from someone who needs it
I guess it comes down to that it’s a job, that anyone can fill. Also that some teenagers may need a living wage
Does my teenager, whose living expenses are still fully paid by me, really need a living wage?
Thank god it’s none of my employer’s business what my living conditions are. If I can make do with a lot less because of personal circumstances then that’s good for me, but that can’t be the metric to measure other people against.
part of me feels like he’s taking some of that from someone who needs it
He’s taking it from his employer who certainly doesn’t “need it more”, otherwise they wouldn’t employ your son.
Think about the natural conclusion to the problem that you’re trying to address. What if we pay teenagers who don’t need the money less than everyone else. That would incentivize employers to … check notes … only hire teenagers who don’t need the money. Everyone else, who actually does need the money, they would have trouble finding a job. Facepalm.
Also. Because your teenagers are getting lucky, in that they have a family that’s paying all of their bills, you somehow wish that they weren’t getting lucky, and that some rich person was getting richer? Do I understand that correctly?
Furthermore. There might be value to your teens in working less so that they can do other things when they’re still teenagers. That might be something you would want to explore, since your family’s finances are in a solid state.
And hey, if you think your teenager is being overpaid, why don’t you encourage them to donate some of their money to charity?
In many other families, finances aren’t so strong. Maybe the parents can pay the bills, but if the kids want to go to college, they’ll have to take out student loans. Or they could start saving in high school, and use that money for college, or to get an apartment if they have to move out, or to buy a car, or whatever else they need after they graduate high school. All of a sudden the extra money sounds really important, doesn’t it.
No, I’m saying that while I agree that essentially every job should have a livable wage, I can’t. Reconcile that with a teenager’s part time job while living at home.
I’d entertain the idea of an exception to livable wages, even if it hurts my family. However I don’t see a reasonable way to apply that without affecting everyone
Guess who works alongside your teenager? Grown ass adults. Should they suffer so your teenager (whom you deem to not be worth a living wage) can learn whatever libertarian lesson you’re foisting on them?
I don’t know whether to upvote you on the difficulty of defining a kids job or downvote on thinking there’s some sort of a lesson different than: he’s a kid with a temporary part time job, not an adult or independent.
Obviously I’m all for him earning more and wish him every success. However speaking from a much more general perspective: should there be any exceptions to livable wages annd is this one? Is there a reasonable way to even do that?
It’s certainly not my intent to judge you or make assumptions, but that seems like kind of a weird perspective, to believe your kid should make less than their peers for providing the same labor. There are plenty of households who humbly ask their working teens to contribute a portion to bills.
but as someone who’s seen what happens when ownership is shared, everyone is equal, a cook should be able to run a country - fuck that. I’ll take bad capitalism over that nonsense any day.
Nice strawman… You sure showed that completely made up political/economic philosophy who’s boss!
It’s easy to shit on everything, so I’ll try to avoid doing that.
I do genuinely not understand the blind “minimum wage should be this” angle. All raising the minimum wage does is raise expenses for everything. It’s pretty much like fuel costs: price of fuel goes up - your bakery, pharmacy, grocer, etc all raise prices and in the end it is those on the lowest income that get impacted the most.
A bit of a mind dump:
ownership is shared, everyone is equal, a cook should be able to run a country- fuck that. I’ll take bad capitalism over that nonsense any day.Time and again, it’s been demonstrated that minimum wage hikes do not have a 1:1 relation with price hikes.
Spoiler: it’s corporate greed.
Demonstrably false. Prices will always go up regardless. Nobody should have to work for less than a liveable wage. If you disagree with me you are a piece of shit.
Of all the things you could’ve said you chose one of the dumbest.
Why does the job exist if it’s so worthless, working it doesn’t allow you to participate in society?
If you work 40 hours a week you need to earn enough to live in the city where you do said work. Period.
Also, wages are only a small part of costs for pretty much everything. +10% wages does NOT mean +10% total costs for whatever that worker provides, and so does NOT mean +10% price, if the company is honest.
Now that my teens are working, I’m a bit uncomfortable with this. Does my teenager, whose living expenses are still fully paid by me, really need a living wage? We’re a $15 minimum wage so He’s excited about the money he’s making, but part of me feels like he’s taking some of that from someone who needs it
I guess it comes down to that it’s a job, that anyone can fill. Also that some teenagers may need a living wage
Thank god it’s none of my employer’s business what my living conditions are. If I can make do with a lot less because of personal circumstances then that’s good for me, but that can’t be the metric to measure other people against.
He’s taking it from his employer who certainly doesn’t “need it more”, otherwise they wouldn’t employ your son.
Think about the natural conclusion to the problem that you’re trying to address. What if we pay teenagers who don’t need the money less than everyone else. That would incentivize employers to … check notes … only hire teenagers who don’t need the money. Everyone else, who actually does need the money, they would have trouble finding a job. Facepalm.
Also. Because your teenagers are getting lucky, in that they have a family that’s paying all of their bills, you somehow wish that they weren’t getting lucky, and that some rich person was getting richer? Do I understand that correctly?
Furthermore. There might be value to your teens in working less so that they can do other things when they’re still teenagers. That might be something you would want to explore, since your family’s finances are in a solid state.
And hey, if you think your teenager is being overpaid, why don’t you encourage them to donate some of their money to charity?
In many other families, finances aren’t so strong. Maybe the parents can pay the bills, but if the kids want to go to college, they’ll have to take out student loans. Or they could start saving in high school, and use that money for college, or to get an apartment if they have to move out, or to buy a car, or whatever else they need after they graduate high school. All of a sudden the extra money sounds really important, doesn’t it.
No, I’m saying that while I agree that essentially every job should have a livable wage, I can’t. Reconcile that with a teenager’s part time job while living at home.
I’d entertain the idea of an exception to livable wages, even if it hurts my family. However I don’t see a reasonable way to apply that without affecting everyone
Guess who works alongside your teenager? Grown ass adults. Should they suffer so your teenager (whom you deem to not be worth a living wage) can learn whatever libertarian lesson you’re foisting on them?
I don’t know whether to upvote you on the difficulty of defining a kids job or downvote on thinking there’s some sort of a lesson different than: he’s a kid with a temporary part time job, not an adult or independent.
Obviously I’m all for him earning more and wish him every success. However speaking from a much more general perspective: should there be any exceptions to livable wages annd is this one? Is there a reasonable way to even do that?
It’s certainly not my intent to judge you or make assumptions, but that seems like kind of a weird perspective, to believe your kid should make less than their peers for providing the same labor. There are plenty of households who humbly ask their working teens to contribute a portion to bills.
My kid lives at home! Therefore they should never make enough money to actually leave home and build a life for themselves!
Nice strawman… You sure showed that completely made up political/economic philosophy who’s boss!