sigh

  • aberrate_junior_beatnik@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    It’s truly wild how hard of a heel turn mozilla has taken. I’m going to cancel my recurring donations to them, and get off all of their products.

        • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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          2 months ago

          Is Mozilla in on it too? Because they’re the ones who orchestrated laying off Steve Teixeira.

          • zante@lemmy.wtf
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            2 months ago

            this week the chat has all been “Mozilla are going in the wrong direction , They’re selling out, they using AI, they’re hiring ad experts”. - all over xitter all over lemmy.

            Now someone dug up this old story about teixeira Suing them, because he claims they demoted him because of cancer. A

            With the scarcity of facts available at this stage , one thing we know is that both AI and advertising were championed by…. Texeira - ex of Microsoft, twitter and Facebook.

            So, an alternate but equally plausible narrative, might be “Teixeira strayed to far into commercialisation, received a shitty performance review, and got moved out of his role”

            • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Yeah especially if you look on reddit, it’s a handful of accounts with a very concerted effort.

              Don’t get me wrong it’s shitty behaviour, but it’s also fairly obviously some are getting paid to suddenly do this.

              • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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                2 months ago

                Which accounts do you believe are witches paid shills?

                Shill accusations are fun, because they can’t be disproven, and their weight is informed solely by the social capital of the person making the accusations.

            • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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              2 months ago

              Okay, your reply is kind of ironic because, in your defense of Mozilla, you’ve opened up new ways you find Mozilla to be bad. For example, "“Mozilla are going in the wrong direction , They’re selling out, they using AI, they’re hiring ad experts”

              Either you believe Mozilla venturing into AI and ads are bad, or it’s good… but exposing it hurts Mozilla. Which?

              Now someone dug up this old story about teixeira Suing them

              Mozilla fired Teixeira a couple days ago. That’s not old.

              both AI and advertising were championed by…. Texeira

              I know you’re trying to get in a gotcha here, but according to Mozilla’s own testimony:

              “[Teixeira] failed to adequately address the considerable concerns and feedback the Board and CEO raised regarding product strategy, including actively resisting requests that he engage in generative Artificial Intelligence (“GenAI”)

    • romp_2_door@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      holy shit you donated money to these wackos?

      with so many OOS projects out there in need of funding, so many devs roughing it up, you donate to the advertising company Mozilla that has zero cash needs, they give million dollar bonuses to their executives every year.

      Literally giving money to wacko rich executives

      • thawed_caveman@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Fucking stop with this conspiracy theory already, i’m reading it for the third time this thread. As if CEOs can’t make bad decisions and there has to be a “realll11” reason.

    • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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      2 months ago

      Honestly. Even my most cynical assumption was that Mozilla would subtly pressure him to leave the company, making life harder for him in ways that wouldn’t be possible to legally prove.

      I haven’t seen anything this egregious since Elon Musk fired Halli.

    • romp_2_door@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I mean they’ve been pedaling AI crap for a while without negative backlash.

      Similarly they tried to ride the Blockchain train back in the crypto scam days and also didn’t face any backlash.

      They’ve publicly vouched to become an AI company and an advertising company without backlash.

      I think most Firefox users don’t care

      • boonhet@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        I think most Firefox users don’t care

        Oh we care, but there’s no alternative besides Chrome and Safari and those companies are even worse (Google definitely is, anyway, Apple is debatable)

        Luckily there’s still alternatives like Librewolf that unfortunately still use Mozilla’s browser engine.

        I do hope the Servo project will be ready to use in a production browser soon.

          • boonhet@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            Compared to Google? Idk. Google doesn’t sell any products to the end user so that says a lot about who the customers are.

            Apple sells products. Apple users ARE the customers.

          • ᗪᗩᗰᑎ@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            Hard agree. Apple’s ecosystem is primarily completely closed-source. If you abandon them or they abandon you you’re left with nothing. At least with open source-based projects like Chrome/Firefox you can fork the code and not have to start from zero against a goliath. Apple would never give its customers that kind of leverage.

        • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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          We are stuck with Firefox based browsers for a few years at the minimum as it takes a really long time to develop an engine.

          Also Servo is very much not the only thing around. Ladybird exists as well

      • Chewy@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 months ago

        What they mean with AI features is also their offline website translation feature, which is something I’ve wanted for years. The alternative is online Google website translation.

        • ᗪᗩᗰᑎ@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          I agree with you. It’s frustrating to see people lump in genuinely good AI/ML work like private on-device translations in attempts to discredit Mozilla. There are good criticisms against them. They’ve made mistakes. There’s zero need to lump in AI/ML.

      • s_s@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        They are a Silicon Valley-based foundation half-heartedly rehashing Silicon Valley’s worst trends.

        The truth is, you have to do these sorts of things to attract and retain talent, even if they aren’t great ideas.

  • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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    2 months ago

    Jesus isn’t rule number one of an employee suing you is to NOT FIRE THEM?

    Seriously Monty Burns did this. Monty fucking burns. A cartoon villain

      • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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        2 months ago

        Season 2 - Bart gets hit by a car. Bart gets hit by Mr Burns while skateboarding. Homer uses Lionel Hutz to sue his employer, Mr Burns for 1 million dollars. On receiving notice, Mr Burns tells Smithers to fire Homer. Smithers asks “Do you think that’s wise, sir? Think of the headlines”

        Mr Burns imagining a newspaper headline that reads "Burns fires ungrateful employee"

  • HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    I genuinely believe that the Mozilla board is secretly working for Google. They already get most of their funding from that search engine deal, is a backroom agreement to slowly run the organization into the ground in order to force the last holdouts over to Chrome that hard to believe?

    • Rozaŭtuno
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      2 months ago

      Don’t ascribe intention where incompetence is enough.

      • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        It’s better to treat incompetence as maliciousness, than to treat maliciousness as incompetence.

        The benefit of the doubt should only apply in the absence of a longstanding pattern of behavior to the contrary.

        IMO Mozilla has run out of goodwill.

        • aaaaace
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          2 months ago

          IMO Alphabet has run out of goodwill by abusing their market dominance in a more overt way.

          Looking forward to more aggressive action by FTC, note that tech donors have asked Harris for Lina Khan’s removal as a quid pro quo.

          • ✺roguetrick✺@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            The key point is the courts only generally care about antitrust issues if they’re adversely affecting the consumer, and alphabet is starting to get into that territory.

            • aaaaace
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              2 months ago

              Lina’s got her radar pointed…

    • servobobo@feddit.nl
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      2 months ago

      It’s in Google’s interest to keep Firefox/Mozilla alive to skirt antitrust laws, so any backdoor deal would be more making Chrome alternatives not look too attractive while keeping them on life support.

    • romp_2_door@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I don’t think they’re working for Google but I’m convinced that they’re trying to setup their own advertising business

      Trying to get some of that sweet ad revenue money

      but Google controls so much of everything that of course they’re indirectly funded by Google, so it may look like they’re working for Google

      In this Tecnofeudalist reality that we live in, we all indirectly work for our feudal lords Google / Meta / Amazon. We are granted their grace and allowed to exist in their server space and use their internet cables. In return we have to work the land and give our data as a tribute.

  • hperrin@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I just canceled my MDN Plus subscription. Man, Mozilla has been so disappointing recently. I have to wonder if Google infiltrated them or something.

    • orcrist@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      It doesn’t really matter if they’ve been infiltrated, because they’re so dependent on Google’s cash. The money corrupts, even if there are no specific moles.

      • PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Sure, but it’s worth asking why the management is so poor. Many people have theorized that it’s because Google is pulling the strings; It would be in Google’s best interest to keep Firefox around on life support, because it helps them avoid antitrust lawsuits if they can point to Firefox and go “nope not every browser is Chromium based!” But it’s also in Google’s best interest to whittle Firefox’s usage down to near zero, which is what every single recent Mozilla decision has been aiming to do.

        Mozilla was getting paid a lot of money by Google before Google got their hand slapped in an antitrust lawsuit. Many people have theorized that since that lawsuit, Google has pivoted to making deals directly with Mozilla’s management instead.

        • ᗪᗩᗰᑎ@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          Sure, but it’s worth asking why the management is so poor

          Could just be incompetence.

          Working in a bigger corp and seeing people continuously fail upwards or get hired into positions where they run around like headless chickens - sometimes the reason is leadership putting people in the wrong role and not holding them accountable because its easy to “fudge metrics” and believe things are going well.

          The strategy I’ve seen far too often:

          • Deliver a half-working project that is bursting at the seams and requires more work and resources (or introduces a technical debt that most people can’t even begin to comprehend).
          • Leadership declares it a success because a long enough train wreck takes time to be noticed when you’re near the end of the tracks and the people at the front lines are doing everything they can to avoid it.
          • Find a new job before the shit hits the fan (typically hold off until your RSU’s fully vest) and talk about how you implemented X while saving company Y and how successful it was.
          • Leave the place worse off than before.
          • The project/implementation starts showing signs of failure and leadership blames others (because the guy who implemented things is now gone and he did things so well how could it possibly be their fault?)

          Too often I’ve seen meetings between management not even understanding what their “core issues” are. How do you even make a business better if you don’t even understand your pain points?

          It’s both fascinating and scary.

  • DynamoSunshirtSandals@possumpat.io
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    2 months ago

    If Mozilla really starts to go downhill, what are the chances we get a Linux kernel-style community fork that we can rely on instead? Curious why that hasn’t happened before – perhaps because Mozilla has always toed the line of not-quite-awful enough?

    I just hope we can keep an alternative browser engine alive. Would be nice if some rich person would just set up a funding model that can pay a few devs to keep it going indefinitely without ads or spyware.

    • thingsiplay@beehaw.org
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      2 months ago

      Because developing and maintaining an entire browser is a huge task. That’s why we don’t see much competition in browsers (I mean independent browsers). Also Mozilla isn’t doing that bad, the browser is still really good. It’s not the technical side that is a problem, its mostly marketing and the image of Mozilla.

    • FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      It’s one thing to tweak a browser that comes in kit form from Mozilla’s code. It’s another thing altogether to continue maintaining it if Firefox ever dies. I don’t know if any of these clones have the kind of teams needed to do all the work Mozilla have done for them.

        • ᗪᗩᗰᑎ@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          I was excited for it up until I saw what happened. I get the perspective the maintainer might be coming from, but they made a huge deal out of something that shouldn’t have been.

    • romp_2_door@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Don’t you like the Ladybird Browser and the browser based in Servo projects as alternatives?

      They’re literally happening right now, not ready for prime time but with continued development and support they’ll become usuable

          • Chewy@discuss.tchncs.de
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            2 months ago

            Yes, and I seriously don’t expect Ladybird to get anywhere near being a complete browser like Firefox.

            Even the idea of being a “web standards first” browser seems prone to failure, looking at how many websites these days “work best on Google Chrome”.

            Firefox follows web standards pretty closely, and then some websites don’t work correctly because they don’t support a new Chrome feature not yet in a proper standard. How will this be different for Ladybird.

            I’ll be positively surprised if Ladybird gets to a point where it works for all websites, just like I hope Firefox continues to do the same.

    • Taalnazi@lemmy.world
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      Check out AlternativeTo

      I’ve been thinking of different browsers as well, but not sure which. Probably LibreWolf.

      Def not Chrome or Safari though.

  • cm0002@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Yet another thing to add to my growing pile of reasons that Mozilla is enshittifying. I wonder what tomorrow’s reasons will be?

    Slight sidetrack, I thought Mastodon was federated with Lemmy? Or is it just Boost that can’t handle Mastodon links?

    • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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      2 months ago

      You can read Lemmy threads in Mastodon clients (although it is messy and gross), but not vice versa. I couldn’t tell you the reason why.

      • Draconic NEO@lemmy.world
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        It’s because the devs just don’t want to. Not really sure why, would be good to have that kind of interoperability.

        • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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          1 month ago

          Lemmy client devs? I have used quite a few Lemmy clients, and none of the ones I have tried (at least, the ones that have the best UIs IMO) support it.

          For what it’s worth, Mastodon clients also seem to have either slick user interfaces or they are packed with features, but usually more of one equates with less of the other. It probably depends on which one the developers want to spend more time on. Since Mastodon (and the wider Fediverse) and Lemmy specifically are a bit different, it seems like Lemmy devs have opted to not handle the idiosyncrasies of something that is not Lemmy specific.

          • Draconic NEO@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            I more so meant Lemmy’s Devs allowing Lemmy itself to interoperate with Mastodon and allowing us to see content from mastodon here. I have no doubt that one could create an app that allows users to login to both Lemmy and mastodon accounts to see data from both, it would require special considerations when building the client though since Lemmy itself doesn’t allow access to Mastodon’s user posted content.

  • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Prolonged, multi-level fuckery with dozens of witnesses - and that’s just with what they did to this one guy.

  • doctortran@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    Teixeira worked for nearly 14 years at Microsoft in areas including developer tools and technologies, before serving as Facebook’s director of program management and design, and Twitter’s vice president of product.

    According to the suit, Teixeira joined Mozilla in August 2022 with the understanding that he would ultimately be positioned to succeed Baker as Mozilla CEO.

    […]

    Teixeira, 52, was diagnosed in October 2023 with ocular melanoma, a rare but treatable form of cancer. He took an approved 90-day medical leave through early February under the Family Medical Leave Act, the suit says.

    Shortly before Teixeira returned, in early February, Baker stepped down as CEO, returning to the role of executive chairman. Chambers, a Mozilla board member, was named to serve as CEO for the remainder of the year.

    So he’s basically fine, he just missed his chance to become CEO.

    https://www.geekwire.com/2024/mozillas-product-chief-sues-the-firefox-maker-alleging-discrimination-after-cancer-diagnosis/

    • LWD@lemm.eeOP
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      2 months ago

      You missed this paragraph, which is curious.

      After he returned, the suit says, Teixeira was asked to carry out and falsely take responsibility for a decision to make job cuts that were planned in his absence. He questioned the need for the layoffs and raised concerns about the potential to disproportionately impact women and people of color, the suit says.

      Mozilla was trying to use him as a scapegoat, putting profits ahead of people.

      • kurap1ka@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I have met Steve at Ms several times, and he always seemed like a nice and genuinely motivated person. He seemed to like product challenges and even took on hard tasks like leading the core team of Windows 8.1 App enablement ( think of getting Facebook to create a Windows native app). I’d believe him that Mozilla treated him wrongly or asked unfair things of him, otherwise he wouldn’t need to take these steps.

    • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.world
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      Yeah I don’t know how this is in other countries but over here that can seriously damage your case as the other party can claim your motivation is fame (and hence money), not justice. You generally never do this, and it’s one of the things lawyers are very serious and strict about.