• bamfic@lemmy.worldEnglish
    80·
    3 months ago

    This is 100% how the Nazis got into power too. Hitler made all kinds of deals with the center-right, military, conservatives, and Hindenburg himself, by promising to be a bulwark against communism, unions, and the left in general. We all know how that movie ended.

    • Snapz@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      3 months ago

      Ended? You mean fled to Argentina, paperclipped to America and stayed quiet for a few decades before getting louder… And Louder… AND LOUDER… AND LOUDER!!!

    • lugal@lemmy.mlEnglish
      79·
      3 months ago

      The context given in the title: France had an election and the left union is the biggest group but still doesn’t have a majority. The president is a liberal and seems to favor the Right over the Left

        • MutilationWave@lemmy.worldEnglish
          80·
          3 months ago

          I’m not the same person, but I’ll give it a go. It’s confusing in part because liberal often means leftish leaning in the US but not elsewhere.

          For example Democrat and liberal are pretty much interchangeable in US political discourse, but that’s not what the word means. Liberalism is more of an economic strategy. In this sense Democrats and Republicans are both liberals. They are all conservative liberals. Does that sound like a contradiction? Only in modern US politics. One party is just more conservative socially and more economically liberal.

          Left or Leftist is generally in conflict with liberal ideology, as a leftist believes in strong social safety nets like universal healthcare, universal basic income, etc. Depending on the type of leftist, this could mean things like a planned economy, workers owning the means of production, or even collectivist anarchy. Examples of leftists are Socialists and Communists.

          This is why, to a leftist, it’s so damn funny when a republican calls a democrat a radical leftist. No self respecting leftist would be a member of the democratic party.

          Sorry for all the US centric shit on a thread about France but I think that’s where the confusion usually comes from.

          • wanderer@lemmy.worldEnglish
            15·
            3 months ago

            No self respecting leftist would be a member of the democratic party.

            That is such a stupid mindset. In many states you have to be a member of the party to vote in their primary. If you are not voting in any primary then you are letting people that you disagree with decide who will be in the candidate in the election. And considering that not voting is effectively voting for the candidate that you most disagree with, all the leftists that refuse to associate with the democratic party are effectively voting for the people they disagree with.

            • squid_slime@lemm.eeMEnglish
              8·
              3 months ago

              if someone doesn’t agree with either party why should they vote? when someone refuses to vote for your party they are simple refusing, this does not mean they are voting for the other side. i really dislike this conflation people make.

              here’s a fun thought experiment. democrats win this upcoming election, does this mean all the people who didn’t vote had actually voted democrats?

              • Hacksaw@lemmy.caEnglish
                7·
                3 months ago

                Stop thinking about it like you need to vote for someone to represent your views because that’s NEVER how it worked. It’s a tug of war, everytime you don’t vote you’re letting your side down.

                Just because not everyone pulling with you agrees on where to stop pulling doesn’t mean you get to drop the rope.

              • MutilationWave@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                3 months ago

                I never said don’t vote for them. In fact in the US right now at the national level the only choice is to vote Democrat even if you hate them. It’s harm reduction.

              • wanderer@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                3 months ago

                Consider two scenarios: one where you vote, one where you do not, all else is the same. In the scenario where you vote, the candidate that you vote for, that you least disagree with, has a higher percentage of votes than in the other scenario. In the scenario where you don’t vote the candidates that you wouldn’t have voted for, the ones you most disagree with, have a higher percentage of votes than in the other scenario.

                Not voting is effectively voting for the people you most disagree with.

                democrats win this upcoming election, does this mean all the people who didn’t vote had actually voted democrats?

                That’s a different argument than what I was making. “Not voting is effectively approval of whoever wins.” related but not the same.

            • Kichae@lemmy.caEnglish
              5·
              3 months ago

              In most countries you need to be a party member to engage in internal party politics. The idea that the heneral public makes direct choices for private political organizations is, honestly, kind of weird.

              But also, which states require you to be an actual card-carrying member to participate in the primary? I was under the impression that most merely required that you register with the electoral office as a party supporter.

              Being a “registered X” is very different from being “a member of X”. Members get to do things like go to convemtions where party policy is discussed and voted on. Members get to vie for party nomination. They’re part of the internal machinery of the party.

              Yhey’re not just voters with a party banner.

              • wanderer@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                3 months ago

                OK, if you want to look at it that way, it’s still the same basic argument, refusing to participate in the party just effectively increases the representation of the people you disagree with.

          • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            3 months ago

            You’re saying the party socializing healthcare is ideologically opposed to people who want socialized healthcare…?

            • BlueMagma@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              5·
              3 months ago

              He is saying:

              Left is Bernie Sanders

              the democrats are the center (leaning right)

              the republican are the right.

              From the rest of the world point of view: US politics is center right VS extreme right.

              • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                3 months ago

                The large majority of democrats want progressive reform, so that’s just wrong. There is a reason Bernie only caucuses with the Democrats.

                • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  6·
                  3 months ago

                  The large majority of Democratic voters absolutely do. However the large majority of Democratic donors do not and are at odds with the voter base of the Democratic party.

        • Match!!@pawb.socialEnglish
          23·
          3 months ago

          liberalism is a belief in free association / marketplace of ideas and is centrist on a global scale. the usa is generally right-leaning so the two major parties are the liberals (centrists) and the right wing

        • iturnedintoanewt@lemm.eeEnglish
          7·
          3 months ago

          The use of “liberal” has been taken by the right, from the neo-liberal they started with. Now they consider themselves the true liberals. It’s the good ole 1984 newspeak strategy of taking the words out of their original meaning to make them lose their meaning, and their ideas behind.

        • Dampyr 🇺🇦 🇵🇸@lemmy.worldEnglish
          5·
          3 months ago

          I think that he is referring to “liberal” more in the sense of being in the political spectrum of economic liberal. Usually I see the difference between the US and EU definition of the term liberal: in the US it is a synonym of the left wing party or leaning, in EU is used for being liberal economic leaning and is different from being left party or left wing

        • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          3 months ago

          Two french parties called “Renaissance Party (RE)” and “The Republicans (LR)” self identify as Liberal Policies as in parties of Personal Freedoms. RE is center and LR is Center-Right on the political spectrum.

  • Beaver@lemmy.caEnglish
    26·
    3 months ago

    Macron is being corrupt by working with the worst of French society.

    • merthyr1831@lemmy.mlEnglish
      26·
      3 months ago

      Oh fuck off lmao. This post explicitly said France and your immediate response is to pretend that the internet belongs to Americans. Get a grip.

      …and maybe consider pressuring your party to consider its own policy of pandering to fascism (Kamala was at AIPAC the other day, despite their known election interference in support of Israel).

      Not everything is a Trump conspiracy - mf couldn’t even hide his ear for long enough to make it obvious that he was vastly overreacting about how much damage the bullet did.

    • kittenzrulz123English
      4·
      3 months ago

      This is a leftist community, if you don’t like it join some “progressive” Liberal community where they’re so focused on “harm reduction” that genocide becomes an acceptable tradeoff

  • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    17·
    3 months ago

    All the left seems able to do is call everyone else a fascist and tell them they’re all awful for not agreeing with their ideological purity obsessions.

    We need to actually appeal to people sometimes, actually talk about difficult subjects that affect people rather than just aay they’re horrible for not putting ideology above all else.

    A few positive ideas that actually make people think it’ll be better for them if the left is in power

    • squid_slime@lemm.eeMEnglish
      10·
      3 months ago

      many parties are active in this, the party i am a member of are having a push towards “fight bosses not migrants” we do need unity of the working class and calling working class people fascists will only push them deeper into their corners.
      the other day i spoke to someone about politics, he complained of housing prices, stagnating wages then exclaimed “its socialism” bottom line: he isn’t a fascist but where he gets his information from is fascist.

    • volodya_ilich@lemm.eeEnglish
      4·
      3 months ago

      We need to actually appeal to people sometimes, actually talk about difficult subjects that affect people

      One side wants to talk about housing, public pensions, public healthcare, public education, salaries, discrimination against women and minorities, and work/life balance.

      The other side wants to talk about immigrants being bad and evil, and about how trans people in films are turning their children gay

  • problematicPanther@lemmy.worldEnglish
    12·
    3 months ago

    Did I miss something in France? Last i checked the center and left-leaning parties formed an alliance to keep the right wing out of power.

    • RozaŭtunoEnglish
      19·
      3 months ago

      The left alliance doesn’t have the numbers to govern on their own, and Macron (the liberals) would rather join forces with conservatives.

      • problematicPanther@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        3 months ago

        Do you have a source or examples? I haven’t heard anything about the french situation since the left and the liberals actually formed a coalition to stop the FP from winning.