I have lots of friends that are vegan/have been vegan, or are sympathetic to the cause. IRL I have had some wonderful conversations about veganism and the ethics of our diet. But on the Internet it’s the vegans ironically that need to get out and touch grass. It’s like there’s no nuance to any conversation, like sorry I can be Peter Singer, it’s actually kinda difficult to be that moral.
It started because a Lemmy.World ADMIN (allegedly carnist) decided to start removing comments about feeding a vegan diet to a cat.
The comments in question were perfectly fine, they literally explained how pets and specifically cats need a few very important nutrients, which are specifically added to vegan pet food. The comments explained in depth about what nutrients they need and where those nutrients come from originally. The comments also warned that you need to be very careful about what you feed them and that you have to do your research, and have to examine the behavior and health of your pet if you decide to do this.
Mister admin decided it was misinformation, even though it broke none of the Lemmy.World rules or /c/vegan rules. Nor was it even misinformation.
The /c/vegan mods in turn banned the Admin from the community because it was obvious there was no objective basis to these removals. The admin in turn got themselves unbanned and banned the mods.
So nuance you say?
Vegans get an amazing amount of hate. And this hate is public and ACCEPTED.
Like the words, “woke” and, “terf” the word, “carnist” identifies the non-ironic user as an ideological extremist. It isn’t vegans who get a lot of hate, it is vegan extremists. I love my vegan friends and bend over backwards to accommodate them. People who use the word, “carnist” can choke on a horse dick.
Definitions made up by vegan extremists. Carnist, corpse munched, and blood mouth, sneered through clenched teeth are a dead giveaway that you’re dealing with a lunatic extremist.
“Carnist” was co-opted by vegan extremists and is sneered through clenched teeth as an slur at anyone who doesn’t agree with them by those extremists just as “woke” and “progressive” are sneered by right wing extremists at anyone who doesn’t fully embrace the Project 2025 vision of a Handmaid’s Tale version of the United States, “terf” is sneered by trans extremists at anyone who doesn’t agree that you can magically change your sex by changing your gender, and the n-word has been sneered by racist extremists for centuries at anyone they see as racially impure.
Extremists are all the same.
So, show me “corpse muncher” and “blood mouth” or we’re done here
I really don’t think it’s hate, in the classic sense. I think most of it is sort of a hamarotic response that’s made possible by the fact that these forums show up in everybody’s feed, and given that vegans typically have negative views on the eating practices of the rest of the world, can be seen referring to those people as they do in private. As you seem to be insinuating, it feels-bad-man to have your lifestyle casually attacked, and nearly always elicits retaliation because humans.
I feel like a lot of it is a matter of terminology. For instance, using the word “omnivore” instead of “carnist”, or “Bovine Matchmaker”, instead of “Animal Rapist”.
We shouldn’t tone down our language because others might be offended by it. “Bovine matchmaker” just isn’t the reality of what artificial insemination is.
All of this. I just blocked the sub. It’s not in my interest to raise my blood pressure over what a bunch of chuckle fucks think of my choices. It’s fucking weird the pejoratives they invent. Carnist? That’s cool, like an artist. Whatever. They can live in their world and I’ll stay out of it. They aren’t affecting me.
The BEHAVIOR of a very small subset of vegans unfortunately causes a small but ridiculously vocal subset of non-vegans to tar all vegans with the same brush.
Since volume equals truth for a not insignificant number of people in the Internet, far too many people don’t stop to separate behavior choices from professed beliefs and that’s how we get where we are now, I unfortunately.
The world would be a better place if people stopped automatically associating and assuming causation and instead treated bad behavior as just that.
The /c/vegan mods in turn banned the Admin from the community because it was obvious there was no objective basis to these removals. The admin in turn got themselves unbanned and banned the mods.
But on the Internet it’s the vegans ironically that need to get out and touch grass.
I keep hearing about these crazy vegans from other folks complaining on the internet. I never actually get to meet them in the wild.
But if I flip over to YouTube Recommended Feed I can find Liver King tier content all the fuck over the front page. Definitely try to steer clear of anything “Recommended” these days, but if I had my ear-holes getting saturated with JBP / Joe Rogan Carnivore Diet insanity 24/7, that might wear down my ability to have a polite conversation.
Maybe that’s what other people are seeing out on the YT comments sections?
Here on Lemmy I’ve been accused of torturing and raping animals as I’m unashamedly an omnivore. I’m a hunter as well.
I worry about animal suffering enough that we’ve bought a small farm and hope to raise all our own meat. I’ve actually worked on factory farms and know firsthand the suffering of animals under that system.
However, there are fanatical vegans on Lemmy that do a fantastic job of driving away those of us sympathetic to vegan ethics and morality.
Here on Lemmy I’ve been accused of torturing and raping animals
I’ve actually worked on factory farms
Depending on what all you did to the animals at those factory farms, you might have been torturing and raping animals. I did horseback riding for like 7 years of my life. I don’t deny I was an animal abuser. The only thing I can do about it now is never get on a horses back again. Denying I was ever doing abuse won’t help me.
This bullshit doesn’t help your cause at all. I’m the rare omnivore that is actually sympathetic to moral issues of factory farmig and animal suffering.
You need to like unfuck your head and try to turn down whatever preaching you’re listening to. That’s some bad religion that’s got ahold of you.
You’re no different than those ‘pro-life’ whack jobs.
So, as an ignorant teenager, cleaning chicken houses of rotten corpses and chicken shit for $5/hr: I was actually fucking those chickens? I was kid chicken raper? The steers I raised in elementary school, I suppose I fucked them as well.
See, that’s the thing. I saw how bad it was and have worked and saved for many years so I will no longer have to participate in a system that involves industrial suffering.
But nope, I’m totally such a raper. Fuck you and your sanctimonious bullshit. You don’t know me or my circumstances. I know plenty of Southern Baptists and Church of Christ that spew this same shit. Y’all would get along real well, if you only listened to your tones and didn’t pay attention to the words.
Fucking fanatics can suck my fucking balls, all y’all the same.
So, as an ignorant teenager, cleaning chicken houses of rotten corpses and chicken shit for $5/hr: I was actually fucking those chickens? I was kid chicken raper?
I would like to think “I saw the horrors and really learned something” would be the appropriate response, not “I saw the horrors, so now I’m immune to criticism for eating meat.”
But I do begin to see why vegans upset you so much.
You don’t see them in the wild because they’re terminally online babies who can only exist in an internet bubble, and likely don’t represent anything but a tiny fraction of vocal, obtuse jerkoffs compared to the population of vegans.
Hey don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of people that need to touch grass, there’s some areas that I have ignorant opinions about. But the best way to fix that is to have constructive mature conversations with real people.
Ps. Carnivore diet is silly and leaves you with less energy than 4 well rounded meals a day, even if it is consistent. Smaller complete meals throughout the day can give you more consistently high energy than ketosis ever will.
There are some commercial vegan diets available which have synthetically made nutrients to replace those found only in animal based ingredients.
There may also be some that do not meet the safety and nutritional standards of other types of food. Manufacturers should provide information to show it is nutritionally complete and balanced. This information can be difficult to find and understand, so it’s important to speak with your vet for advice too.
I hold no allegiance to Singer, I was merely using him as an example since he is a well known moral philosopher. But now I’m curious, what’s the tea, why is he so bad? What makes him deserving of the title human garbage?
Concerning bestiality - should people have sex with animals, seen as willing participants? – he responded, “I would ask, ‘What’s holding you back from a more fulfilling relationship?’ (but) it’s not wrong inherently in a moral sense.”
Is there anything wrong with a society in which children are bred for spare parts on a massive scale? “No.”
But sex with animals does not always involve cruelty. Who has not been at a social occasion disturbed by the household dog gripping the legs of a visitor and vigorously rubbing its penis against them? The host usually discourages such activities, but not everyone objects to being used by his or her dog in this way, and occasionally mutually satisfying activities may develop.
Article on a 2015 case of a woman sexually assaulting her student, a mute man with cerebral palsy:
If we assume that he is profoundly cognitively impaired, we should concede that he cannot understand the normal significance of sexual relations between persons or the meaning and significance of sexual violation. These are, after all, difficult to articulate even for persons of normal cognitive capacity. In that case, he is incapable of giving or withholding informed consent to sexual relations; indeed, he may lack the concept of consent altogether.
This does not exclude the possibility that he was wronged by Stubblefield [the assaulter], but it makes it less clear what the nature of the wrong might be. It seems reasonable to assume that the experience was pleasurable to him; for even if he is cognitively impaired, he was capable of struggling to resist, and […] it is implausible to suppose that Stubblefield forcibly subdued him. On the assumption that he is profoundly cognitively impaired, therefore, it seems that if Stubblefield wronged or harmed him, it must have been in a way that he is incapable of understanding and that affected his experience only pleasurably.
There’s also this statement by the National Council on Disability in response to Singer’s appearance on a radio show.
Singer’s statements supporting eugenics, which is what he’s most notorious for, are also not difficult to find.
I have lots of friends that are vegan/have been vegan, or are sympathetic to the cause. IRL I have had some wonderful conversations about veganism and the ethics of our diet. But on the Internet it’s the vegans ironically that need to get out and touch grass. It’s like there’s no nuance to any conversation, like sorry I can be Peter Singer, it’s actually kinda difficult to be that moral.
It started because a Lemmy.World ADMIN (allegedly carnist) decided to start removing comments about feeding a vegan diet to a cat.
The comments in question were perfectly fine, they literally explained how pets and specifically cats need a few very important nutrients, which are specifically added to vegan pet food. The comments explained in depth about what nutrients they need and where those nutrients come from originally. The comments also warned that you need to be very careful about what you feed them and that you have to do your research, and have to examine the behavior and health of your pet if you decide to do this.
Mister admin decided it was misinformation, even though it broke none of the Lemmy.World rules or /c/vegan rules. Nor was it even misinformation.
The /c/vegan mods in turn banned the Admin from the community because it was obvious there was no objective basis to these removals. The admin in turn got themselves unbanned and banned the mods.
So nuance you say?
Vegans get an amazing amount of hate. And this hate is public and ACCEPTED.
Like the words, “woke” and, “terf” the word, “carnist” identifies the non-ironic user as an ideological extremist. It isn’t vegans who get a lot of hate, it is vegan extremists. I love my vegan friends and bend over backwards to accommodate them. People who use the word, “carnist” can choke on a horse dick.
I simply used the definition that was used in the post by the /c/vegan mod(s).
Definitions made up by vegan extremists. Carnist, corpse munched, and blood mouth, sneered through clenched teeth are a dead giveaway that you’re dealing with a lunatic extremist.
Get your facts straight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism
You’re making stuff up
Show me “corpse muncher” and “blood mouth”.
“Carnist” was co-opted by vegan extremists and is sneered through clenched teeth as an slur at anyone who doesn’t agree with them by those extremists just as “woke” and “progressive” are sneered by right wing extremists at anyone who doesn’t fully embrace the Project 2025 vision of a Handmaid’s Tale version of the United States, “terf” is sneered by trans extremists at anyone who doesn’t agree that you can magically change your sex by changing your gender, and the n-word has been sneered by racist extremists for centuries at anyone they see as racially impure.
Extremists are all the same.
So, show me “corpse muncher” and “blood mouth” or we’re done here
Do you have a problem with the word chud? Because you sure sound like one.
I only care if I respect the person saying it and their opinion. In your case, not in the slightest. Carry on.
I really don’t think it’s hate, in the classic sense. I think most of it is sort of a hamarotic response that’s made possible by the fact that these forums show up in everybody’s feed, and given that vegans typically have negative views on the eating practices of the rest of the world, can be seen referring to those people as they do in private. As you seem to be insinuating, it feels-bad-man to have your lifestyle casually attacked, and nearly always elicits retaliation because humans.
I feel like a lot of it is a matter of terminology. For instance, using the word “omnivore” instead of “carnist”, or “Bovine Matchmaker”, instead of “Animal Rapist”.
It’s hate.
They are projecting their ignorance of their own molested values and morals.
People hate it when you get real, and veganism is the realest it can get. “Live and let live”
I’m going to skip a LOT of the trope level arguments here. How about this:
Do you believe that lions in captivity (whatever your feelings about lions in captivity are), should be fed a vegan diet?
I bet the cats being fed a vegan diet aren’t living that long.
They can live just fine, as long as attention is paid to them getting all the essential nutrients a growing cat needs, but like… Why would you?
it’s not rape, it is a veterinary procedure
We shouldn’t tone down our language because others might be offended by it. “Bovine matchmaker” just isn’t the reality of what artificial insemination is.
I agree with you, but/and you are making my point for me.
I’m not sure how I am?
All of this. I just blocked the sub. It’s not in my interest to raise my blood pressure over what a bunch of chuckle fucks think of my choices. It’s fucking weird the pejoratives they invent. Carnist? That’s cool, like an artist. Whatever. They can live in their world and I’ll stay out of it. They aren’t affecting me.
The BEHAVIOR of a very small subset of vegans unfortunately causes a small but ridiculously vocal subset of non-vegans to tar all vegans with the same brush.
Since volume equals truth for a not insignificant number of people in the Internet, far too many people don’t stop to separate behavior choices from professed beliefs and that’s how we get where we are now, I unfortunately.
The world would be a better place if people stopped automatically associating and assuming causation and instead treated bad behavior as just that.
Same goes the other way around. There’s people treating vegans like trash. Even threatening them.
on lemmy?
What else did they expect?
This. My experience has been that internet vegans are more concerned with judging others than caring about animals.
I keep hearing about these crazy vegans from other folks complaining on the internet. I never actually get to meet them in the wild.
But if I flip over to YouTube Recommended Feed I can find Liver King tier content all the fuck over the front page. Definitely try to steer clear of anything “Recommended” these days, but if I had my ear-holes getting saturated with JBP / Joe Rogan Carnivore Diet insanity 24/7, that might wear down my ability to have a polite conversation.
Maybe that’s what other people are seeing out on the YT comments sections?
Here on Lemmy I’ve been accused of torturing and raping animals as I’m unashamedly an omnivore. I’m a hunter as well.
I worry about animal suffering enough that we’ve bought a small farm and hope to raise all our own meat. I’ve actually worked on factory farms and know firsthand the suffering of animals under that system.
However, there are fanatical vegans on Lemmy that do a fantastic job of driving away those of us sympathetic to vegan ethics and morality.
Depending on what all you did to the animals at those factory farms, you might have been torturing and raping animals. I did horseback riding for like 7 years of my life. I don’t deny I was an animal abuser. The only thing I can do about it now is never get on a horses back again. Denying I was ever doing abuse won’t help me.
RAPE! RAPE! MURDER!!!1!
This bullshit doesn’t help your cause at all. I’m the rare omnivore that is actually sympathetic to moral issues of factory farmig and animal suffering.
You need to like unfuck your head and try to turn down whatever preaching you’re listening to. That’s some bad religion that’s got ahold of you.
You’re no different than those ‘pro-life’ whack jobs.
I’m sorry to hear that. Online discourse does get extremely personal, particularly when people don’t know each other.
Well then… not to be rude but that means you’ve literally been complicit in torturing and raping animals.
There it is.
So, as an ignorant teenager, cleaning chicken houses of rotten corpses and chicken shit for $5/hr: I was actually fucking those chickens? I was kid chicken raper? The steers I raised in elementary school, I suppose I fucked them as well.
See, that’s the thing. I saw how bad it was and have worked and saved for many years so I will no longer have to participate in a system that involves industrial suffering.
But nope, I’m totally such a raper. Fuck you and your sanctimonious bullshit. You don’t know me or my circumstances. I know plenty of Southern Baptists and Church of Christ that spew this same shit. Y’all would get along real well, if you only listened to your tones and didn’t pay attention to the words.
Fucking fanatics can suck my fucking balls, all y’all the same.
I would like to think “I saw the horrors and really learned something” would be the appropriate response, not “I saw the horrors, so now I’m immune to criticism for eating meat.”
But I do begin to see why vegans upset you so much.
If you’re trying to make a point for there not being as many “crazy vegans” on the internet, well, you’re fucking it up.
You don’t see them in the wild because they’re terminally online babies who can only exist in an internet bubble, and likely don’t represent anything but a tiny fraction of vocal, obtuse jerkoffs compared to the population of vegans.
I still don’t know who you’re actually referring to. Where are the JBP vegan equivalents?
Hey don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of people that need to touch grass, there’s some areas that I have ignorant opinions about. But the best way to fix that is to have constructive mature conversations with real people.
Ps. Carnivore diet is silly and leaves you with less energy than 4 well rounded meals a day, even if it is consistent. Smaller complete meals throughout the day can give you more consistently high energy than ketosis ever will.
https://www.bluecross.org.uk/advice/cat/food-and-weight/can-cats-be-vegan
Is this meant to prove or disprove it?
Peter Singer isn’t actually vegan (he is human garbage though), so idk why vegans still idolize him so much
(am vegan)
I hold no allegiance to Singer, I was merely using him as an example since he is a well known moral philosopher. But now I’m curious, what’s the tea, why is he so bad? What makes him deserving of the title human garbage?
From a 2004 interview:
From a 2001 review:
Article on a 2015 case of a woman sexually assaulting her student, a mute man with cerebral palsy:
There’s also this statement by the National Council on Disability in response to Singer’s appearance on a radio show.
Singer’s statements supporting eugenics, which is what he’s most notorious for, are also not difficult to find.