Update: I got banned from hexbear and grad lmao
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Ah, I see you said something controversial, like “Theocracy bad” or “Imperialist capitalist state bad”. The tankies don’t like those positions for some reason.
Bruh I poked the hexbear once when a dude was arguing over exactly how to classify the Uyiger genocide. Something about how “it’s not a genocide, but just an ethnic cleansing” they really didn’t like when I pointed out just how weird of an argument that is. Fascists usually short circuit pretty fast under redicule
it’s not a genocide, but just an ethnic cleansing
Those are synonyms, FFS. 🤦♂️
Dude needs to crack open a dictionary or a thesaurus.
It’s only a genocide if it comes from the state of Germany. Everything else is just sparkling ethnic cleansing. /S
I had one argue “the Soviet space program did amazing things without the benefits of imperialism”, which is a statement I can only ridicule. Then, to prove how not imperialist the Soviet Union was, he proceeded to explain how much imperialism the United States did. Yes, I’m quite aware of how much imperialism the United States did. That’s not the issue here.
I originally joined Lemmy with a lemmy.ml account by mistake. I was arguing with a brainlet who told me the Soviets could not possibly have been bad because they fought the Nazis. When I asked what that meant regarding apartheid USA I got banned from .ml.
You see what makes a Nazi isn’t actually killing millions of people. It’s only killing millions of Russians. The reason why the Nazis are evil is not actually because they are evil but because they went against the Russians.
That’s how many of the Russians see it anyway, and by extension many tankies. The only difference is tankies have to try and sound reasonable to a Western leftist audience.
If you simply choose to embrace the same euphemism for genocide as them and also pretend that having a euphemism excuses the genocide, then you could get along.
I’ve never been able to figure out the basic ideas behind their opinions. It’s something like US conservatives, where it’s something stupider than you can even guess at, but less predictable.
Understand that some or most of the key posters there are literally pawns of Russian or Chinese intelligence. Troll farms, wumao, what have you. Whether they are literally government employees or contracted through a third party, their purpose is to astroturf positive optics of their employer and negative optics of the US/the West as a whole. A more sinister interpretation, they are trying to destabilize the West by doing things like trashing Biden, now Harris, hoping to secure a chaotic and inwardly destructive Trump presidency.
Anything they say is to service these goals, anything they believe is mutable to these goals, and nothing they argue is in good faith.
But doesnt china block hexbear?
For others but their info opsec is uninhibited. The crux of authoritarians is “rules for the but not for me”.
Sure, they don’t want themselves to be destabilized by this nonsense.
AFAIK that was misreported, HB has at least one power user who does so from mainland China.
I’ve seen some downright insane takes on how what the Chinese are doing to the Uighurs is not as bad as it seems.
It sure is odd how hexbear loves the absolute fuck out of Russia and China.
That’s because communism has no purchase in American politics, because it has been rigorously repressed for over a hundred years at this point. Lots of people think they know what it’s about, but very few have even bothered to read the introductory pamphlet.
Anyway the thing liberals tend to complain about the most is the Communist defense of America’s designated enemy countries - China, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba, etc. You’ll often hear the phrase “critical support” used, which most likely means that the person disagrees with that country on a lot of its policies (nobody on HB would support the establishment of a hyper conservative theocratic government, for example) but supports that country in its conflicts against America, because they view the American Empire as the greater evil that must be defeated to advance the cause of global socialism.
Yu’re pretty much outlining the problem. Yes, the people on hexbear and ‘omg I’m so leftist’ on the rest of lemmy strongly support Russia and China, who are not “America’s designated enemy countries” simply because Americans unilaterally claimed it or something, but are geopolitical and military rivals who straight up say they oppose the US. There’s nothing politically special about either country that makes them worthy of leftist support other than hatred of America, yes. It’s a pretty pathetic concept to base your political views on since it’s not even remotely consistent. These bold intellectual luminaries should move to Russia if they think it’s so great (that is, assuming they don’t already live there). Most likely they live cushy lives in Western Europe while whining about how great the CCCP is.
who are not “America’s designated enemy countries” simply because Americans unilaterally claimed it or something, but are geopolitical and military rivals who straight up say they oppose the US
If the US did not operate a worldwide empire, then there would be no need to oppose them.
There’s nothing politically special about either country that makes them worthy of leftist support
Are you sure about that? I’d say “being run by a communist party” is pretty special and worthy of leftist support.
China is not communist at all for the past 20 years. They do slightly socialist capitalism with a one party system. That’s what makes HB’s love of the CCCP so clueless. Admire China if you want, sure, but they’re not communists. Same people act as if modern Russia is communist because the USSR theoretically was.
The Chinese and Russians would be perfect rly happy to do the same thing the US has been doing. China is working on it, in fact. Russians seem too mired in their own difficulties but anyone who thinks they don’t want an empire apparently doesn’t know much about the USSR.
You get the most basic thing imaginable wrong multiple times and act like you know what you’re talking about.
- CCCP = USSR
- CPC = Communist Party of China
Please just admit that you don’t know what you’re talking about and what you’re doing is repeating half-remembered talking points that you’ve seen other commenters make on Reddit and Lemmy. This is embarrassing.
If they were actually communist they wouldn’t produce billionaires by the hundreds.
Didn’t you already post this dumb shit in a different place? This stupid essay wastes a ton of time citing philosophers instead of data and then ends with “it is okay to have billionaires because of reasons, still socialism.” It isn’t socialism.
I’ve been there, but I mostly just do it anyway. Fuck it, I said what I said. Half the time you don’t even get anything all that cutting, it’s just png salad. Every now and then, you’ll get a coherent response that isn’t a death threat, and those end up being good reads more often than not.
Yeah I don’t think much of it either… They just take offense to something doesn’t even apply to them lol
I got banned from hexbear and lemmygrad like a year ago without ever even posting in either community, just for arguing with some of their users under a post on lemmy.ml
Very happy to be on an instance that blocks them entirely. The couple of weeks we were federated was a couple of weeks too long honestly.
I forgot to block the instructions, left an unpopular opinion on a post. I wish I blocked it like I thought I didn’t.
Everyone just goes straight to being an asshole there, no middle ground.
.ml is the same way. People were getting deleted left and right for posting about Maduro fixing the election in Venezuela. Not realizing it’s freaking .ml. Even when told, “the mods are just enforcing the instance rules” they didn’t get it.
What good has giving free speech to conservatives done anyone?
There’s a certain special irony in folks on the internet telling one another “Shut up! You’re not allowed to criticize free speech!” in a thread defending free speech. It only gets worse when you have people throwing shit fits over being federated, because it means you might get banned from another sub.
This all seems to boil down to “I don’t like other communities that hurt my feelings”. A thousand little Elon Musks, all screaming and crying because they can’t shut everyone else up and turn the local instance into a room full of yes-men.
We should just defederate all the ml domains, it would greatly improve the Lemmy experience.
Defederate them for having a different political worldview? Defederation is supposed to be for extreme circumstances. There’s not a problem that .ml communities cause of people breaking the rules here. I’m not saying there aren’t toxic people from lemmy.ml or lemmygrad.ml, there definitely are, but there’s nothing to justify defederation.
If instances just start defederating other instances for hosting a lot of communists then the platform’s gonna fall apart lol.
You can block instances if you don’t like them. You don’t have to decide what the best experience for all us other lemm.ee users is.
It’s not about an ideology. It’s that they make it their identity. If someone founded a server and community for lemmy.fascists I wouldn’t blame a lot of people for not wanting to Federate with it as well.
While they like to talk to talk. They’ll do anything but walk the walk. Ml governments have been some of the most brutal and repressive in existence. And this is not a defense of anyone else. just a critique of them. There’s plenty of criticism to go around. However Leninist are particularly hypocritical, bad faith, and specifically not worth engaging with when it bleeds over into every other discussion.
I completely get the stance you have. I just can’t agree with the view that the instances are as bad as fascist instances. I mean some of the communities there definitely express heinous views don’t get me wrong, but they’re a leftist instance with many different types of leftism. There’s the extremist “tankie” communities (one might call them) with all the Russian and North Korean apologia (yes, internet MLs think North Korea is free and democratic), then there’s most of the rest of the instance with well-adjusted but very leftist views. This goes for .ml and hexbear but, I haven’t seen much of anything other than authoritarian communism on lemmygrad so I can’t say anything positive about that.
I think most instances have their extremely problematic areas that those admins don’t see as problems, and we have to weigh whether those problems are serious enough to cause major problems for lemm.ee. Seemingly in our admins’ opinions, and my opinion, hexbear and .ml are easily dealt with by just blocking them. I have seen a ton of cryptofascists and actual pedophiles from some other specific large instances (cough .world), and while I certainly put some blame on the instance admins for catering towards people with those views somewhat, I don’t want to defederate from them. There’s tons of good reason to federate with .world, and tons of good reason to federate with .ml, and with hexbear. They all contribute a lot of non-political stuff to my feed. Hexbear has probably the best trans communities along with blahaj.zone, probably like 1/3 of the posts in my feed are from .ml plus .world.
IMO, since there are a lot of instances that defederate those instances already, the classic use of the Fediverse is to have your account on one of those instances. Or to block the instance if you don’t want to go that far. I go on lemm.ee specifically so I can see all the fediverse has to offer without having to change between a bunch of different accounts because of defederation. I don’t want the LGBT and leftist communities I participate in to be blocked because a bunch of guys in the instance have really bad opinions. Unless they’re spreading abuse content or something, I’d probably rather be able to see the instance.
Sorry for the wall of text, but defederation is an important topic that affects everyone on the site, I think it should have a lot of elaboration.
The administration and leadership alone is bad. Fascists have less/non controversial views too. Is that an actual argument for them?
They aren’t leftist in any meaningful sense. They’re authoritarian first. Anything else is an afterthought. An anarchist or anarco-communist like myself calling out the ML state and the vanguard party for their failures. Would be deemed an enemy of the state. Imprisoned, killed, or if I was lucky. Just have my life ruined.
There’s plenty of Anarchist and non-ML communities on .ml and hexbear. The hardcore Maoist stuff doesn’t apply to most of the communities on .ml. Either way though, the communities they do have isn’t as relevant to federation for lemm.ee since the admins stated they only consider defederation for activities on lemm.ee. Which again, I would say lemmy.world and other instances have had just as much of a problem. That’s relevant because in that case, if we’re defederating .ml/hexbear, logically we should defederate .world.
Every day on this site I see people who are into transphobia (“I don’t believe in trans people” I shit you not is something I’ve seen), Palestinians ethnic cleansing, want to get rid of healthcare, all that Project 2025 and “ancap” stuff. And they’re mostly from lemmy.world and sometimes instances like sh.itjust.works. Their propoganda seems to prove far more consequential on the site, as most people will think you’re a lunatic if you say China is a free and democratic nation, but a lot of people will buy what is now mainstream far-right propoganda and culture war nonsense. Although both of those will tell Americans to not vote for Kamala.
When reddit was the main alternative and Lemmy.ml was the main server? Sure. Even if both groups are administered by authoritarians. At least nominally leninists have a couple more things that they like to pretend they have in common.
That doesn’t mean the group’s over there were healthy or well established. You have to tiptoe around the egos of those in the in group. And criticizing the flaws of their ideology would get you banned from communities and or the server quickly.
The reason people want to de-Federate with ML and related servers is literally their administration. Not just people on the server. Are there problems with people on world? Absolutely. But I doubt you see rud or any of the admins as part of it and enabling it. Literally in your own words. They’ve kind of been too open and you don’t like some of the people that they have allowed to be on their server. You’re OKAY with cultish authoritarians who pretend to be trans friendly. Till they find some reason to call the person a secret capitalist liberal etc etc etc and ban them. I’d rather be part of a community that would risk letting in a few transphobes etc. Rather than one that cannot take self-reflection or self-criticism without lashing out against those who level it.
You just comment something like “humans good” and the pro-russia tankies start arguing with the anti-russia tankies under your comment…
It’s hilarious honestly
Can relate, the people from that instance are bonafide shitrilers, born a century too late to join Hitler’s youth so they join hexbear instead.
So before I knew shit about the fediverse I was trying to find and instance and I thought “oh neat I’m a leftist,” and created an account on hexbear. I was not prepared at all for that. I didn’t know what a tankie was and I was just legit confused for a minute.
I’m new here, I don’t even know what the fediverse is. What does this mean?
As Goat has said, this platform (Lemmy) is comprised of instances, some, like Lemmy.world, are general instances, and some have a specific theme or type of content they cater to. There’s one for furry porn, one for regular porn, for example, and one for utterly insufferable Internet communists who make a point of behaving badly in other communities.
behaving badly
I wanna push back on this. The whole point of federation is that people from different communities interact, but when an active community like hexbear predictably has a ton of people leave a comment on a post that reaches their /all page it gets called “brigading” when it’s literally just people using the most basic feature of the website.
Sorry, but no. I’ve seen how they engage with other instances, their strategy is to dogpile on anyone who dares disagree with them, flood the thread with insults and shitty images, and generally behave like poo flinging monkeys. They don’t debate, they don’t actually make a cohesive argument for their beliefs, their entire approach is to use overwhelming force to drown out opposing voices.
They’re a thoroughly awful group of people.
Don’t forget if you try to defend yourself you get told to go touch grass.
I had a stroke reading this
Seek medical attention.
They went back and fixed it
Really it’s just like subreddits, but with an additional level added on. So each instance has its own culture and rules, and then their own communities within them that may or may not overlap with communities on other instances.
So you might think you’re commenting on a post from lemmy.world/c/politics, which is pretty liberal and mainstream for an American forum, but it’s actually hexbear.net/c/politics, which is quite far left and has very active users, who respond to your comment completely differently.
the thing about hexbear isn’t just that they’re far left, but that they are violently auth-left, and live in a huge echo-chamber, as most instances defederated from them. plenty of far left people are actually very grounded and human compared to them, see slrpnk.net and the an-soc instances. while they have strong opinions, they won’t immediately wish death upon you if your views clash
auth-left
The political compass is a terrible metric for tracking political currents. Disagree with Hexbear for how aggressively they post, sure, but drop that designation.
Yeah, super saiyan marx, I wouldn’t call tankies progressive
What you call them is irrelevant, they’ve been at the forefront of progressive causes for as long as they’ve existed.
yeah, I definitely agree there, not to mention that “authoritarian left” is self contradicting to begin with. It’s a pretty direct two-word description though, I find, and better than just calling them “tankies” which is even more vague
are there any instances on here that aren’t left?
That probably depends on your Overton window.
Let me rephrase, is there anywhere that isn’t a circlejerk in either direction? I came here hoping it would be like Reddit pre 2016 where most of the main subs would at least have discussion and debate in the comments and not just a bunch of people blindly agreeing with each other.
Welcome my guy
Communists are somewhat like collapsniks. I don’t want to bully or torment them, life kicked their butt already. But tankies, damn they deserve some bullying from time to time for all the stupid shit they say.
I’m fine and usually agree with people who are economically left. I find I usually disagree with people who love state capitalism so much they will excuse whatever human rights abuses occur under it.
Looking at the online places some people lost their faith in liberal democracy. At least in the USA looking at the voting and political system there it really isn’t the most… healthy. So I very much understand the desperation.
In other places it is going strong and no one sane would want to drop it. It merely needs some tweaks and fixes that are a subject of constant battles in the parliament.
This is the problem of us centric internet. Whatever I say it is always taken in the context of America. I got to know so much about that single country out of 195 whether I wanted it or not
I’m somewhat convinced that all the Tankie servers have some unspoken agreement to ban the same dissenters.
I doubt it’s even unspoken.
Never post you bear ass in IncantationUrsine, always make sure you are in MagicBear community where friendly sugar bears updoot and compliment you.
