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Obligatory “just watch Andor” comment.
Seriously. Go and watch Andor. It proves that good Star Wars content can be made. It has a diverse cast. You just need good writing and a vision. That’s what’s missing from the new content.
But I don’t want quality content when I open up a Star Wars series. I want the same old Republic vs Empire setting, some easygoing action with light sabers, bit of humor, a couple of furry characters and plot holes I can drive a truck through.
Edit: make that a barge. I want to drive a barge through not a truck.
I felt like Andor was pretty dang boring… Loved Rogue One, though.
I’m good thanks. I’m not subscribing to s streaming service where the business model is pumping out content faster than the competition
🏴☠️
No
of course the movie franchise about killing space nazis famously had no woke agenda whatsoever until they gave a woman a laser sword
Misogynists hated Leia back in the 70s, too.
If by “hated” you mean “wanted to bang” then yeah.
One often fuels the other
I was too young to have to listen to their shit then though.
I know right? Fucking liberals.
The new show isn’t great for reasons other than Disney being woke.
That’s great and fine but you can apply this meme to every new show 🤭
There’s a pattern.
My entry point into Star Wars was KotOR so I’ve always been pretty critical of the average Star Wars media. I really enjoyed Rogue One, Andor, Mandalorian S1&2, and Clone Wars S7. Star Wars can deliver sometimes.
With a budget of $180M I was hopeful that Acolyte could be great, and it hasn’t delivered yet.
It’s on a positive trajectory however.
What does this mean, you admit this particular show is not very good but might eventually be good?
This stupid woke/dei shit is just the culture war du jour, if the product that was being released was excellent, there wouldn’t be as much fuel to call a show bad for whatever reason.
But as the previous poster noted, there have been properties that were celebrated on release because they are good. The first Mandalorian episodes meet a near orgasmic fervor.
Acolyte at best is maybe just ok to not very compelling imo, that’s up against the other now recent star wars properties like Andor, which is and was critically acclaimed. The argument just falls apart when you use an objectively not very good show like Acolyte.
I mean the shows premier was a rocky start but it’s getting better. I think it’d a decent set up. Even the first three episodes of Andor were pretty slow. You have to set the stage. Introduce the characters. The plot. The season is going to be good, I’m very sure.
It’s a CW level show
Fair points, all of them, I’ve heard from a friend that the most recent episode is excellent. I’ll keep giving it time.
It was mad. Definitely worth it.
In what world is it a positive trajectory? The first two episodes were by far the strongest, and it’s been falling fast in 3 and 4.
Lol
On the one hand I don’t mind some new interesting plots involving same sex partners or similar. However, I agree with you that modern studios are forcing the issue to the point that it ruins everything.
For as schlocky of an adventure the OT and Prequels were, they still drew on real world inspirations. The OT pulls inspiration from WW2 and the Vietnam War as the backdrop, a small rag Tage group of guerilla style freedom fighters fighting off the highly militarized empire with weapons that can destroy entire jungles I mean planets in its path.
The Prequels, for as bad as the dialoge was (because Lucas was surrounded by Yes Men instead of people who actually knew how to cover his weaknesses), was about the decadence of the 80s and the exploitation of the labor of 3rd world countries (see the disparity between Anakin being a slave on Tatooine and Padme being a queen of/senator for Naboo), in phandom menace, which quickly shifted focus to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and how republics, like the Roman Republic, and Weimar Republic became the Roman Empire and Nazi Germany, and how America was following the same path.
And this isn’t really some reading between the lines speculation, George Lucas has said that these real world conflicts served as inspiration for the movies. Could it be post hoc rationalization? Yeah it could be, but it’s kinda hard to make those justifications even years after the movies have been released.
The sequels just aren’t pulling from any relevant sources. It was all nostalgia bait without any substance the first order is literally just Hugo boss wearing good stepping nazis 2.0, aka The Empire Again, the New Republic narratively exists only to be blown up by The Empire 2.0, everything is “Look its just like the Original Trilogy!” and it all lacks a cohesive vision and an actual hero’s journey for someone to go through. Like everyone has great setups, a rogue stormtrooper, an ace pilot for the rebellion and a girl who survived childhood gathering scrap from dangerous derelict. And they just all get sidelined for all the nostalgia bait.
Hot take: Star Wars is not sci fi. It’s space western at best.
The originals were fantasy. I’s not a hot take, it’s fact - Swords, wizards, castles, knights, the heros journey. Some of the other shows and media since departed from that. Mandelorean is a western, solo was a heist movie, and most the shows don’t fit the fantasy tropes that well. None of Star wars, to my knowledge, fits sci fi at all.
The Thrawn book trilogies are probably the closest I’ve found to Star Wars being sci fi. There is a specific focus on real world physics in a way that is very absent from everything else Star Wars especially when they write about space battles. Only things that stay firmly fantasy and require that suspension of disbelief are, of course, the Force and Thrawns preternatural ability to read an enemy’s battle tactics from their species artwork
Mandelorean is a western
It nakedly and obviously cribs from Seven Samurai, The Good The Bad And the Ugly, and Wolf and Cub.
It’s funny/weird that Dune is much more “more fantasy than sci-fi” than Star Wars, but somehow it’s still considered one of the greatest sci-fi stories of all times.
maybe, just maybe, there actually isn’t that big of a difference between sci fi and fantasy
Eh. Speculative fiction is different from magical realist revanchism in a lot of critical ways.
But they both routinely serve as metaphors for the modern era.
Well, Dune at least does a half-assed attempt at explaining how this is a projection of a possible human future. Star Wars didn’t.
That being said, I wouldn’t call Dune “crunchy” sci fi at all. It’s a perfect example of why fantasy gets lumped in with sci fi so much (which, honestly, I hate)
Dune is more theological fiction than fantasy or sci-fi.
so red rising is fantasy and not sci fi?
Dont know what that is, tbh. I lost interest in the series after Disney kept doing their thing. I can’t speak for any of the new stuff from the last few years.
it’s a completely unrelated novel series. set in space and clearly sci fi, but has castles, dueling, war games, and peasants
Red Rising isn’t hard sci-fi, but it is more notably sci-fi as a series after the first novel and the weird little obvious Hunger Games sequence ends.
The combat-oriented Golds are also an obvious ripoff of 40k Space Marines and the author absolutely betrays the overall message in the third book but that’s not related to the question, I just hate that he did it.
There can be peasants and feudal social classes in sci-fi. Sci-fi explores how society will react to future events and technology, but you could absolutely have a, for example, post apocalypse sci-fi novel about knights fighting over fiefdoms with swords in the ruins of Earth.
One of the reasons Star Wars gets criticised for not being sci-fi is that the science just doesn’t matter to the story.
You could have told the exact same story with samurai/warrior monks, horses, and wooden sailing ships, so the science is an aesthetic, not a plot element.
Like, they have a literal slave race of androids, fusion, FTL, everything, and it just doesn’t fucking matter. There isn’t a robot uprising. Everyone’s poor for no discernable reason, despite AI being a thing and the society effectively having unlimited energy, etc etc etc.
Red Rising might have had their weird little Youth Death Tournament but there was a point to the society doing that, to create a militarised group of the next generation of the ruling class.
Why is there poverty in Red Rising? Because they’re eugenics powered space fascists and it’s a control mechanism.
Why is there poverty in Star Wars? Because Lucas apparently never considered it should be anything else.
Oo that’s fancy! Thank you for sharing
It very much sci-fi fantasy. It’s the tech level, availability, and the fact that universe used is literally a galaxy where people actually travel to other galaxies (using spaceships with some very fictional abilities). Kamino is in a minor galaxy that is close by and you see Luke and Leia on a ship with a unspecified galaxy out the view port in the background.
Other tech that puts it into sci-fi: controlled plasma blades, neurally connected prosthetics, bacta, droids, weapons with stun and kill, repulsors, reactors for personal ships, energy shields, hyperdrive, industrial cloning.
I’m sure there are other good examples as to why it qualifies as science fiction. If Star Wars isn’t in a sci-fi genre, then Star Trek is a political drama.
To me, Star Wars is a fairy tale in space.
arguably the space part makes it sci fi
Star Wars belongs firmly in the “science fantasy” category; it’s a work that draws on both sci-fi and fantasy tropes.
No, the writing was just bad.
I strongly prefer strong female leads (and my tastes only get more LGBT when it comes to novels), but those movies were terrible. Just horrendous. I still can’t bring myself to watch episode 9, or anything star wars since then
I’m not even that big a star wars fan. I love sci-fi and fantasy, because I love the new ideas they contain - star wars was never special to me, it was just good
I’ll never forget leaving the theater after episode 7, my whole department took off to see it on release. I just remember everyone being relatively satisfied, even the extreme star wars nerds, but I just looked at my team lead who I shared an office with. .
We used to talk about Star wars all the time, especially the extended universe, but we looked at each other and I saw pain in his expression, and I knew I shared the same look. I don’t think we ever spoke about Star wars again
And after episode 8, I now just feel dread when I see a blaster.
It wasn’t that nostalgic for me, it wasn’t that my standards were unreachable - they were just bad movies.
It also felt unoriginal
The prequels go well with the sequels. Star wars is a story about collapse followed by heros saving the day and it all makes sense. It comes from both a hero’s journey and tragic plays. The problem with the new stuff is that they abandoned the old way of story telling. Not only did they fail to come up with a plot more complex than big weapon destroys planet they completely failed to tell it in a way that made me care. It felt cheap despite having a much bigger budget than the original A new hope.
I remember sitting in the theater for Episode VII. I had a sense of excitement because it could be anything. It wasn’t an adaption of a book I’d already read, like Game of Thrones. It wasn’t a remake, like the Disney live action stuff. It was a reboot, but in a totally new direction since they threw out all the EU stuff.
It was retreaded garbage.
The only movie I’ve ever been more disappointed in while sitting in the theater was Cowboys and Aliens, because I was so excited for it to be xenomorphs. So sad. But it did cement that I will never trust a movie with old Harrison Ford in it.
After I saw 7, I thought, okay the story is super derivative, but I’m actually connecting with the characters like I used to in the original trilogy. Watching the prequels I was never fooled at any point into thinking these were actual humans on screen, but this time I felt something. So leaving the theater, I thought, well, at worst 8 and 9 will be a lot of fun, if you don’t focus on the plot.
It turned out that a portion of 8 was like that for me (I thought the scenes between Rey and Kylo were very cool) and the rest was stuff I never wanted to see again. And then 9’s plot was nonsensical to the point that I don’t think I’ll ever want to subject myself to it again.
I’ll never ever understand why even the most cynical studio in the world would want 7, 8, and 9 to be made without even a skeleton of a plot drawn out for the whole trilogy before starting on the first movie. It’s absolutely insane to me.
They somehow managed to lose even some of the most dedicated fans.
I love that we still can see a sane take sometimes.
For me the issue is not only the bad writing, but the over saturation of content as well.
There are just too many spinoffs and sequels now, ever since Disney bought the rights. I got bored of The Mandalorian halfway into season 1. Same goes for Obi Wan. Rogue One was great, but I didn’t bother with Solo or even Episode IX. Stopped paying attention after that.
The only Star Wars content I’m looking forward to is the remake of Knights of the Old Republic, and only because the original was among the best RPGs I’ve ever played. Couldn’t care less about anything else. Disney killed off my enthusiasm for the franchise. Maybe I just wasn’t as much of a fan as I thought I was…
Solo was pretty alright - worth seeing once. And Andor was fantastic.
Seriously, if you like star wars but find everything you’ve seen under the Disney release umbrella to be underwhelming at best, watch Andor. It is incredible. The worst thing about it is it is proof that good Star Wars content can be made today, and instead all the make is garbage.
“I bypassed the compressor!”
Still sucks that some audience minds associate character to actor a bit too much. Rei’s actor didn’t do anything wrong, and she deserves future chances.
Wasn’t the writing always bad though? (I might be biased, I never liked Star Wars.)
The dialog was always mediocre to bad, but otherwise the writing was pretty good. Characters had growth arcs, acted in understandable ways given their characterization.
Watched any good movies with strong female leads lately? I just watched Birds of Prey and thought it was the best live action DC movie in a long time
I’m intrigued, I’m not a big fan of DC movies but I’m willing to give them another chance. Could you give me a quick synopsis?
Hmm. Harley Quinn breaks up with Joker, meaning all of the people she’s pissed off are no longer afraid to go after her. Along the way she meets the ensemble cast of heroines who also want to fight criminals and they team up for some grand finale where they all fight bad guys together.
Very basic fare, so if you don’t like superhero movies (it’s a saturated market, I don’t blame anyone who does) then skip it. But it does feature Ewan McGregor playing a guy who likes peeling people’s faces off which was a funny tone shift.
The less said about the sequel trilogy, the better, but do yourself a favour and don’t miss out on watching Andor just because of the movies. That show is just really good and also incidentally Star Wars.
The bad batch is apparently also great, along with the latest clone war seasons (according to my friend at least)
I’m just not ready… Seeing Star wars just fills me with negative feelings. I hope I’ll get there one day - I loved the EU and the more they accept back into cannon the more I want to get back into it… But I just can’t give it another chance yet
I’m just not ready…
I’m almost the same way. I’m not really feeling negative about it, though. I just feel nothing towards it, which is almost worse. Like you said, though… maybe some day. The interest is still there somewhat, just not nearly enough for me to act on it.
The thing is that, depending on your tastes, there’s a good chance at least some of the new content will appeal to people, but I do absolutely understand getting that bad aftertaste every time you remember that it all leads canonically into those three movies and … nyeeeerrrrgghhh.
By the way, it seems that even a good portion of the producers seem to at least partially share that feeling, which makes it doubly sad that disney is making almost everyone shoehorn in some hint of retroactively created foreshadowing with the goal of explaining that no, palps returning that way isn’t the ass-pull it obviously was at all, nuh-uh!
The original trilogy was hero’s journey stuff, mythology for a modern age. Episode 6 was the weakest, though.
The prequel trilogy was an envisioned world - for all of its writing weaknesses, it felt like a living, breathing universe.
The sequel trilogy was lifeless. 7 was an okay start, and I actually quite enjoyed it despite being derivative, but 8 was muddled trash (how many times did Poe commit mutiny while they were doing the slow-mo chase?) and 9 was dreadfully mediocre.
And this is coming from someone who loves many of the spin-off media on their own merits, many even more than I love the prequel trilogy.
It’s not nostalgia. Some of us just genuinely dislike how shit the sequel trilogy was, and how bad they did our boy John Boyega after episode 7.
And the problem is not even the corporate wokeism (although it’s feels about as insincere as all of the current corporate wokewashing) it’s just… bad writing. “Lifeless” is absolutely on point as a description for the sequels. It felt like they only existed to yank my nostalgia while at the same time trying to do so with less thought and love poured into them. Plastic, lifeless, sanitized, insincere, corporate profit driven nostalgia-fodder CAN NOT compare to simply good writing, actors with chemistry and sincerity.
I watched 7, suffered through 8 and didn’t even care about watching 9. Yes, I am nostalgic, but that’s precisely what the sequels were created to evoke. But just nostalgia isn’t enough!
Like you, I really enjoyed most of the spin-offs. They had a story to tell and they had direction, believable characters and did not feel like just trying to yank my nostalgia for the original trilogy. I mean… they DID yank my nostalgia, but then they went above and beyond that and told interesting stories.
I watched 7, suffered through 8 and didn’t even care about watching 9.
I almost didn’t watch 9. Then a friend of mine who’d walked out of the theater while watching 8 told me 9 was actually good. So I took his word for it. Episode 9 was okay. Not good or bad. Felt like they were trying to cram two movies into one. But, without getting into spoilers, compared to 8, 9 was still okay.
Star Wars isn’t bad because of “woke” inclusivity. It’s bad because the people who were supposed to be responsible for carefully curating and engineering both the past and future lore of the universe were at the very best taking a maverick approach to storytelling and at worst actively trying to to sabotage the canon for the sake of their own selfish artistic pursuits.
I don’t dislike the nu-trilogy because it makes an effort to include women and minorities in leading roles. I dislike it because it’s an incoherent mess of a story that doesn’t mesh at all with what came before it, and the only thing holding it together is the veneer of Star Wars, but only the parts that made Star Wars iconic and not necessarily the ones that made Star Wars good.
Yep. No one disagrees. The meme makes a point because it could be trotted out for ever single new release. Including back to the sequels.
No one says it about Andor though. Star Wars really is bad now. Your meme is saying that Star Wars is just as good as it ever was and we’re wrong for pointing out that it’s bad. But it is bad. And it didn’t used to be.
They took the never tell me the odds two seriously
No I miss old star wars content. Specifically where Luke and Leia make out and where exactly George was going with that shit.
Jokes aside, pronouns is the dumbest possible hill to die on with regards to the starwars universe. OF COURSE gender is going to work differently when you put a bunch of wildly different species together. Gender dimorphism is not some universal rule the rest of the galaxy has to follow. Hell, sexual dimorphism isn’t even universal ON EARTH. why the fuck wouldn’t you run into a them or xir every now and then? What about those bug people from clone wars? You think bug people are gonna have mommies and daddies or what?
It does feel a little unnatural when they force the inclusion of some lesbian couple for the sake of inclusion. I don’t have a problem with that but don’t force it. Let the story develop over time where it feels natural. You don’t see rushed straight relationships in Hollywood.
You don’t see rushed straight relationships in Hollywood.
You may want to sit down now, because if you like, I can gather a list of all movies whose script contains the line
“and then the hero gets the girl despite there being no perceivable chemistry or other factors they have in common except him being the main character and her being The GirlTM in the movie. They kiss. The End.”
I just wanted to see Luke in the role of obi wan or Yoda after decades of Jedi training be a hero and pass on his legacy by training the next generation. But I would have been ok with one heroic lightsaber battle, and a reunion with han, chewy and Leia.
Watching the last Jedi and seeing someone who tossed his blade away because he saw the good in essentially “Space Hitler” try to kill his own nephew because he was having a nightmare so out of character. Then having him overdose on the force and die like a chump, broke me. I left the theater in silence. The last Jedi is also the only star wars movie with out a light saber fight. No blades ever touched.
Watched Episode 7 yesterday.
That was from 2015??? Nearly 10 years ago, which is completely crazy.
Really interesting how it is newer than Episode 3, but uses all of the Episode 4-6 style.
The music sucks, but the visuals are very nice. I love how they made the Lightsabers and Guns so much more realistic.
I remember episode 8 or 9? Where literally every scene was stolen from Clone Wars. That was a bit lame.
Also crazy how their cast is still 80% male. I always wonder if people would be shocked if it was 80% female…
The music sucks
You take that back. John Williams is an international treasure, and the only aspect which was consistently good throughout all nine films. Rey’s theme, March of the Resistance, and Jedi Steps and Finale were all stellar in my opinion.
It was clearly phoned in work that leaned heavily on previous themes.
Sorry I overthink it. Just the general impression was… kinda random?
Like many tracks in important moments were not memorable at all.
Omg
Force Awakens will be closer to Revenge of the Sith next year
Why do people defending Star Wars keep shitting on sci-fi and fantasy? “It’s just a movie about space wizards with laser swords” they say, as though having fantastical elements negates all criticism.
The original trilogy isn’t schlock. It’s fun, relatively lighthearted adventure in a fantastical setting. It has its flaws, but there is genuine artistry there, and it resonates with people because of that.
And even if I am looking at classic Star Wars through nostalgia goggles, that doesn’t invalidate criticism of new Star Wars stuff. Rise of Skywalker is a train wreck of a movie all by itself, no comparison needed.
I do miss being younger and happier.
How is star wars woke. Woke is a social construct conservative people use.
That’s the joke. It’s not really a criticism. It basically implies Peter is being racist.
Woke is a social construct conservative people use.
My dude, Woke is a concept that the culture wars have stolen and mangled. It goes back over a hundred years.
And you won’t be surprised at all regarding who they stole it from.
How a Black activist watchword got co-opted in the culture war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke#Origins_and_usage
Edited to confess I don’t use it in the original context either. I use it like the article mentions near the end:
"People today who identify as woke see themselves as having been awakened to a new set of ideas, value systems, and knowledge”
I don’t actually use it out loud (primarily because of what conservatives have done to the word), but yeah, once you start looking behind the curtain, it’s hard to view it any other way but as an awakening.
I suppose it would be a very boring movie if all actors were just asleep the whole time.
Star Wars is now the schlocky, uninspired, cheesy “sci-fi” that the original Star Wars killed by changing the whole genre back in 1977. It’s time that the next George Lucas emerges and ends the travesty that is Disney SW. I don’t see it happening with the risk-adversity of modern Hollywood.
I mean, George could’t even edit his first film right and got way too much help from who was around him. When he got famous and nobody could talk down to him his movies got meh at best… and jar jar at worst
and jar jar at worst
🤣🤣
So you’re saying GL isn’t really the guy who was responsible for “a new hope”?
I’m saying the ideas were there and the work is its child for sure, but he had a lot of help from great minds of the time. A movie is not just made by the director, and if his/her voice is too strong it will kill the talent around him. That’s what I think happened after his success
