• Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I find that title to be wholly innaccurate.

    There were also women on the force, so it was 376 boys and girls in blue sat around and let 19 kids and 2 teachers die.

    Well, 375. There was that one asshole who shouted “Do you need our help?” to which a hiding child responded “Yes we need help!” and was subsequently shot by the gunman

    That person actively caused a child to die.

    • BassaForte@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Don’t forget the one cop that wanted to help but was held back and prevented from entering (I think his wife was a teacher or something)

      • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Oh, and that other cop who was going to try to open the unlocked classroom door but was then told to go patrol the rest of the school

        • Delta
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          5 months ago

          The only reason they even started evacuating was because one of them opened a classroom and saw it was full

        • 100_kg_90_de_belin @feddit.it
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          5 months ago

          A: Marvel saw fit to publish a comic book in which Frank Castle tells cops to stop using his logo. B: now that the guy with a Punisher lock screen has experienced loss, he may step up his war-on-crime game.

          • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            I didn’t bother reading it. It’s an old story that most of us have heard and just needed a reminder of.

            edit: also, i feel so confident in the truth of the story that a Pro Cop bias story will still make the cops look shitty because the hard facts are

            1. This guy choose to follow orders over “duty.”

            2. This guy choose to follow orders over saving innocent lives.

            3. This guy choose to follow orders over saving his wife’s life.

        • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Before anyone says that it’s easy to say they would have done while behind a keyboard, cops were preventing bystanders from going in to recuse the kids.

    • /home/pineapplelover@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      “do you need help?”

      “Nah we’re good, call back next week maybe”

      What kind of idiotic ass fucking question was that?

    • JohnnyEnzyme@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      boys and girls in blue

      How about we clarify that as: little boys and little girls in blue.

      Altho TBF, women in blue are typically at the bottom of the chain, and almost certainly deserve the least amount of critique here, whilst the highest ranking dudes unquestionably deserve all the shit in the world for directly ordering their forces not to make any meaningful attempt.

        • JohnnyEnzyme@lemm.ee
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          5 months ago

          Right on.

          Now this is just personal anecdote-- but one thing I’ve always been pretty surprised by (as a person with fairly severe health issues, haha not sure how that totally influences thigns) is how, when there’s a local emergency, the adrenaline just hits me and I spring in to action (as much as I can) to help out.

          Par example, three times now I’ve survived bad fires that way, and after comparing notes with an old friend over Uvalde, I was pleasantly surprised to discover that both of us felt the same way-- that we wouldn’t have been able to look ourselves in the mirror if we hadn’t made our best attempt to save the kids.

          Seriously, how do these BLUE people look at themselves in the mirror for either not doing their best that day, or on a national scale, for enabling this awful betrayal of public trust?

    • Optional@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Nothing changed because Uvalde immediately re-elected the same republiQan slate that put them there. After that tragedy. There should be no more question that it’s a cult.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Uvalde immediately re-elected the same republiQan slate that put them there

        Sadly, the kids weren’t allowed to vote. Mature enough to get shot at. Not mature enough to select the police who stand idle while it happens.

        • BenLeMan@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Not yet, so the clock is ticking for Republicans to make government of the people, for the people, by the people perish from the earth.

  • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Here in Denmark a crazed man attacked the Fields shopping center with a couple of hunting rifles. The first time something like this happened in a very long time.

    Danish armed police had a quick response time. Loads of dudes with in full body armour and MP-5s guarding every main exit while other guys went inside to clear out the civilians and hunt the shooter down.

    The sniper equipped helicopter circling the shopping center spotted the shooter coming out of a service door and he subsequently got caught.

    I think in total only 5 people died, which was from the short period when the guy started shooting.

    All the right wing gun addicts from America were chest thumping and table banging, shouting all over social media that this somehow was an example that gun laws don’t work. However, considering this happened within a short period after the school shooting in America, all it truly did was make American police look like a bad joke.

    • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      As much as ACAB, I can admit that sometimes an armed response is necessary. It sounds like you danes have a well trained force, rather than some 6 week academy psychos with a hard-on for violence.

      • UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev
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        5 months ago

        It isn’t any more complicated than that ACAB is an obvious US-centric exaggeration and that there are police forces out there that doesn’t suffer from the same systemic problems that according* to American media is pandemic in their country.

      • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Cops aren’t really bastards in Denmark. Oh sure, you’ll find anti establishment types everywhere; there certainly is no love for the police in Christiania. However, the overall opinion of Danish citizens towards the police is positive. In Denmark people genuinely feel safer seeing a policeman on the street.

        Police in Copenhagen are also friendly; unless they’re in the middle of something, you can, as a citizen or a tourist, walk up to one and ask them questions.

        Police do carry pistols in Denmark, but someone just starting their career in law enforcement isn’t immediately given a gun until they’ve had a good job record and proper training for a few years. The amount of paperwork a cop has to go through for even suggesting they’ll pull their gun is staggering.

      • LANIK2000@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Romania, the country that’s not even shengen yet (meaning you can’t cross the border without being checked by customs, EXACTLY BECAUSE it’s fucked)? Lol, you really showed Denmark xD

        Also saying America is doing “better” at combating crime is only true if you want to compare yourself to war torn counties. The US has a comparable amount of people in prison to China. COMPARABLE to a country where you get arrested for looking the wrong way. Yes, China has more prisoners, but it also has 4 times the population! America is failing spectacularly at keeping its monopoly of violence as a state. When a civilian shooting happens in the rest of the 1st and 2nd world it’s a tragedy that shakes the country, meanwhile in America half the population feels nothing, because it happens so often.

      • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Europe likes to shit on the US because of people like you making excuses and letting problems in America continue being problems.

      • P1nkman@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Tell me you know nothing about Europe, the EU or the Schengen area without stating so verbatim.

  • snooggums@midwest.social
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    5 months ago

    Holy shit, I thought it was double digits. How did they get 376 to show up without any of them roid raging their way into doing something other than dicking around?

    • halyk.the.red@lemmy.ml
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      5 months ago

      Because it’s a group of narcissists. They were too worried about themselves. None of them had the courage to say “I’m willing to not go home tonight so these kids can.”

      Actually I’d bet that a bunch said that, but didn’t actually do anything about it.

      • Sanctus@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        This is what pisses me off the most. 376, and you can’t storm the room? 376? And you refuse to trade one for any of those children who needed protecting? These are supposedly the hard calculations they have to make and they all unilaterally chose themselves? Enforcers will always be useless to anybody but the property owners. They aren’t actually here to protect anybody. They should have made the call, and traded 20 of themselves so those kids didn’t have to die. Thats the hard call we expect these “hard asses” to make.

        • CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          5 months ago

          I can’t remember the study but basically the bystander effect is a thing. The more people there are in a group, the more likely it is that no one will do anything because everyone will assume that someone else will do something.

          This isn’t to excuse officers because they are specifically trained that they are that someone. The fact that they were held back from entering is willful, malicious, and negligent.

          The fact that the officers actually complied instead of disobeying orders especially when seconds turned to minutes, is cowardice.

          And a reminder that I believe the police chief and mayor of the town was reelected by the town.

  • BigBenis@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    What’s the point of all that military gear they’re wasting tax payer money on then? Fascist cosplay?

  • Technus@lemmy.zip
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    5 months ago

    I scoff every time a cop on a TV show is like “I joined the force to save lives and make a difference” because it’s painfully obvious that this is pretty much never the case in reality.

    • Blackout@kbin.run
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      5 months ago

      They joined the force because it has the best job security next to CEOs in the US.

      • mkwt@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        I feel like CEOs are more like football coaches in terms of job security. As long as they keep winning, just about no form of misconduct can dislodge them. Stop winning though, and the hot seat can become very uncomfortable.

        • flerp@lemm.ee
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          5 months ago

          But they make so much money and get huge golden parachutes so they have more money than they would need for the rest of their lives, and yet they still are able to get other CEO jobs. It’s a little club and once you’re in, you’re in.

          • mkwt@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Well they negotiate for those golden parachutes in their contracts precisely because of the hot seat effect.

    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      They didn’t specify “which lives” or “what differences”. We can make some guesses, but I don’t think we’d like their answers.

    • barsquid@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Yeah but it doesn’t sound as good like, “I joined the force to get away with beating my wife after pissing my Punisher logo boxers at work.”

  • Heikki@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    I recall a conservative news segment where the “jounalist” and “expert” had discussed that the kids should have rushed the shooter and overwhelmed him. Doesn’t matter they were 6-7 they should have stepped up and stopped it all.

    Meanwhile, the actual people gained to do that wouldn’t, despite overwhelming numbers

      • Valmond@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        So grow up and make harsher gun laws?

        I think that’s actually one of the few ways that could work out well.

    • Resonosity@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Gaslighting or, pardon the pun, disarming what actually could be done in government to prevent this from happening in the future is despicable. It’s epitomizes the modern understanding of the US Republican party. The government can’t fix anything: it’s the citizens’ responsibility for systemic problems.

      Conservatives, what the hell happened

  • Nicoleism101@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    From all my internet lurking I discovered that America is a country almost beyond redemption, or at least some states.

    I always wonder if it is really that bad or am I just hearing the usual ‘my country bad’ talk like anyone does but the news point to the first one basically every time. I can only assume it is mostly true and sympathise.

    As someone who lives in middle eu capital city and has proverbial 4 houses it is all quite mind blowing. I feel like I live in completely different reality and I am grateful for it every day.

    It’s however very painful to hear all you just plain suffering. Maybe that’s why my mind goes ‘it’s probably exaggerated’ it can’t be that bad can it be?

    • Zink@programming.dev
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      It’s a strange contrast living in the US sometimes. My personal life is pleasant and I work to keep it that way. I like where I work and I see multiple good doctors on a regular basis. But I’ve had plenty of my own troubles over the past 5 years too.

      …but I also have eyes. I see the same crazy shit you do, and furthermore I have enough personal acquaintances to know that the crazies we both read about are fully serious and indoctrinated.

      So, I wouldn’t say that the suffering is exaggerated, just that it isn’t ubiquitous. It’s a big place. Millions are doing OK while millions of others are getting beat down by life.

      • Facebones@reddthat.com
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        5 months ago

        A big caveat to this is that of the millions who feel they’re doing “OK,” millions of them are one missed paycheck away from homelessness. Only ~40% of Americans can cover a $1000 emergency, for example.

        • Zink@programming.dev
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          Yeah, a lot of people are misled or just used to the shittiness. And as I’m sure we’re all aware, a big chunk of the population has been continued to think that the people taking advantage of them are some kind of heroes worthy of worship.

    • fiercekitten@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      In some states, it really is that bad.

      And every insane and cruel story you hear about our heathcare system is true too.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      “If it bleeds, it leads”. Yes, we have some things that are just not right, and sometimes horrible tragedies, more often than a modern country should. But if we keep talking about it, it may seem even worse than it is. Like you, most of us haven’t been impacted by school shootings, but yeah

    • CoggyMcFee@lemmy.world
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      There are clearly bad things that need fixing, but the badness varies from state to state and you’re probably getting a distorted picture regardless.

    • whoisearth@lemmy.ca
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      5 months ago

      From all my internet lurking I discovered that America is a country almost beyond redemption, or at least some states

      If America is a sum of its states, they are beyond redemption.

      If the world is a sum of its countries, we are all beyond redemption.

      Imho the whole system is broken and until everyone (worldwide) starts aligning then the world is lost. We aren’t there yet.

      • dutchkimble@lemy.lol
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        5 months ago

        I used to think a major global catastrophe will fix the system, like world war, or a hostile alien invasion. Then covid happened and we’re back to square one in the aftermath, if not worse. I realised there’s no fixing it. In my opinion, it’s not that we aren’t there yet, it’s that we will never be ‘there’. Having said that, when I say never I speak about our lives or that of our grandchildren, perhaps a few more generations. If humanity survives a few more centuries after that, if not millenia, who knows what could happen.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      So honest question. Do you know anyone who’s been threatened with gun violence? Because as an American my initial response was that it isn’t that bad, but then i thought about the fact that if you answer no to that that would probably be weird to me. Sure I’m rarely in such a position, but from time to time yeah I have to watch myself because I know crazy people who have guns or I know I’m pissing off an armed and violent person by doing something like helping their dv victim escape. The idea that guns wouldn’t be involved in such situations is more foreign to me than initially expected.

      • PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        So honest question. Do you know anyone who’s been threatened with gun violence? Because as an American my initial response was that it isn’t that bad

        I mean, I’m only in my 30’s and I know four people who have been shot. Two were robberies, one was a seemingly random act of violence, and the fourth was due to a domestic dispute. Three are still alive, but that fourth died in his girlfriend’s arms before paramedics arrived. It happened a decade ago, and she still has night terrors from it. And this is in a nice suburb, not someplace full of gangs.

      • Nicoleism101@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        I never worried about anyone having a gun in my life at least not realistically so. I mean I live in pretty safe place. All the bad ppl left 15 years ago for the USA, Britain and so. We are the nation of religious, sometimes toxic hobbits. Worst is social ostracism as that can be really bad in the smaller places if you didn’t vote same as others or you dated same gender. Or didn’t go to the church…

        I wish everyone could be a nation of hobbits, that’s like ideal in my eyes

        Point is when I hear about knife fights in UK I am like wow brrrr.

        Biggest bad news lately in my capital was that some poor woman got sexually assaulted and died a month or three ago while returning from some party at 5 AM sunday which was very shocking. It really was the most disturbing thing.

        Everyone is very anti immigrant here though. Even the pro Democratic/leftish Party just legalized shooting at the border to immigrants (in case of aggression). Kinda crazy. I think at this point they simply wouldn’t get elected at all if they were pro immigration. One single, very left party pro immigration has 6% of votes.

        It seems that this change in narrative of the pro eu pro democrats helped them win over alt rights but like ya know it’s all super complicated morally. I guess almost 100% of people don’t want (Arabic) immigrants and it is long sailed ship.

        I am very conflicted about all it internally. I am not blind what happens when you let culturally and socially distant immigrants en masse but I don’t want those people to suffer either. I don’t blame them for trying to get where is much better place to live but I also don’t want to sacrifice myself for it…

        It’s super huge problem and we all gonna have some blood on our hands I reckon if we don’t already have…

        Also I remember there being lots of drunk homeless people once long ago but I haven’t seen one in such miserable state at least in a long while. Just realised it now. Long ago I was semi afraid to go to the liquor store because of all the types consuming high powered drinks. Harmless still but it definitely changed. For whatever reason. I hope it is for the good reasons and not the bad ones.

        Overall I think we are moving into interesting direction though slowly and a bit bloody at times considering the borders. they are only going to get worse and most have uncanny ability to forget about such things immediately when they accidentally hear about them. We all prefer to pretend it’s all cool and distant or whatever. I myself prefer not to dig into the horrors that must happen there uh

      • treefrog@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        Any person in the U.S. that has interacted with a police officer has been threatened with gun violence. It’s implicit in that 9mm they carry on their hip.

        But yes, I know people who have been shot, shot at, and had weapons drawn on them too. By actors other than the state.

      • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        I’m in Canada and don’t know anyone I can say for sure has been affected by gun violence or threats of it. I’ve personally been in a situation where I was trying to make small talk with a wannabe gangster and apparently asking about jobs can be dangerous I guess when they make money from mostly illegal shit and he threatened me until my friend came over and convinced him I’m not an under cover cop. But even that threat was a, “what if I had a piece” rather than “I’m going to shoot you”.

        I only ever saw or shot bb guns until in my 30s when I did some target shooting in my friend’s back yard. He kept his guns all locked up when he wasn’t using them, ammo locked separately. Partially for the obvious safety reasons (even though he lived alone), partially because a part of the license is that police are allowed to come and inspect how you are storing your guns. I don’t know how often this is used in practice (don’t think my friend ever had it happen), but it’s a sign that the legal state of guns is very different across the border.

        I can’t even think of any robberies using violence or threats of violence I have first hand or second hand knowledge of. Theft, yes, but like the “car was left unlocked and someone noticed” or “someone picked an easy to pick lock”. That last one happened to me, I figured out who it was and just told him to stop coming around and I’d leave it alone and I never saw the guy again. It might have been a bit dangerous if I wanted satisfaction from the situation, but I think there might have been an equal chance he would have just accepted the L and paid be back for the weed he stole.

        Pistols require a seperate license that is much harder to get. For rifles and shotguns, you can get a license as a hunter, recreational shooter, or collector (amateur is fine but you do need to get your hunter license first before you can use it to justify a gun license). There was a gun registry but the conservatives scrapped that the last time they were in power.

        For pistols, they are limited to certain professions such as police officer, military (I assume), or professional hunter/trappers who work in bear territory and aren’t necessarily carrying a rifle or shotgun ready to go if suddenly confronted by a bear. I believe there’s certain self-defense scenarios that allow them (like a proven threat that is difficult to neutralize, like with connections to organised crime).

        It’s gotta be extreme because carrying anything for self-defense is generally illegal. Like if you have a pocket knife you use to open packages, that’s ok, but if you carry that same knife for self-defense purposes, it’s an illegal weapon. Some knives like switchblades or butterfly knives that can be deployed with one hand are always illegal.

        I think this is a bit much, because knives that don’t fold are ok and IMO the question should be more about what scenarios one thinks it is ok to defend themselves with a weapon than having had that consideration at all. That said, the situations where someone might think a weapon is called for but isn’t are probably more common that situations where one is necessary to defend oneself. But I digress.

        The pretty much ban on pistols I think is what makes the difference. In some states, the risky part of carrying a pistol is about if you use it or if you specifically shouldn’t have one (felony or something). In Canada, just carrying it runs the risk of losing it and catching charges, which means that situations where someone would use a hidden pistol in the moment are more likely to have a cool down period while they go get their gun and might realize that it’s not worth it or might not be able to find their victim again afterwards.

        There is some gang activity but I think even that is way more chill here and any violence is probably more related to score settling than turf control. I get the impression that the cops are more chill about non-violent stuff here, so that could play into the equation in that the risk differential is higher if violence is involved. Or I could be wrong about that because I’m not a minority (but I suspect it’s because police violence is investigated (and not just by themselves) and dealt with more consistently here, and the lower likelihood of getting randomly shot probably allows them to be more at ease).

      • LordCrom@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Yes I do. In fact the couple was held at gunpoint by 2 men who robbed them, and then felt up his wife in front of hime with gun barrels in their faces.

        Cowards who hide behind a gun

    • DeanFogg@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      For some it’s an nightmare for some it’s just Tuesday.

      For the Tuesday folk that doesn’t mean they should sit idly and let it happen or even actively encourage it, but that appears to be what they think they’re entitled to.

      • Nicoleism101@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        It is 8/10 where I live Public transport, edu, health, weather a bit too hot in summer because of city lacking green area but I have this small property 30 km away from city with just pure green everywhere and I smoke joints there and paint in summer.

        My flat is barely liveable in summer without AC as it is on the attic.

        People are peaceful mostly they just value not drawing attention to themselves and generally you can go alone at night with no problems. Only slightly worse as woman. Probably 50/50 if visibly trans - not sure but I’d wager it would be suprisingly rare considering how religious some ppl are. They will just tell you to fear Jesus or smh or maybe laugh or comment but most likely won’t do anything. Still if there is anyone that should be cautious it’s visibly trans ppl at night but then at night it’s harder to clock a trans woman so that’s that. I guess if you dressed like drag queen and went to the darkest places at night there would be 50/50 chance of some unpleasant or maybe dangerous situation but those bad places aren’t as many here as there were in the past.

        Nearest bad place near me got renovated and while we were drinking there extensively late at night in the past, we got tickets for our shitty ways. Most dangerous places seemingly disappeared as the drinkers disappeared and places got revamped.

        I guess now that I am on the other end of the stick that’s just pure win instead of „god there’s no more place to drink and make chaos in this neighbourhood, the end is near”

          • Nicoleism101@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            Yay so that’s cool, not all that bad huh?

            From social media one sees the USA as a terrible, terrible place. I once even wanted to visit but after all I have read I no longer harboured that idea.

            Also I hate guns nowadays even though I liked them once but like I really hate that kind of culture

            • Malfeasant@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              I live in Arizona, one of the more trigger-happy states (we allow concealed carry without a permit) but I haven’t been personally affected by any gun violence in 20 years. There was a shooting on the edge of my neighborhood a few weeks ago, but I didn’t hear about it until days later, just happened to see a news story. It was some sort of party situation, the people knew each other, not random.

  • jaschen@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    Cop’s first priority is themselves. If it’s convenient, they might help others.

  • andros_rex@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Cops refuse to show up on my methhead neighbors - they have weapons. But when my (then) husband wanted to evict my little unarmed 5’3” butt from the house I’d lived in for the past seven years, after physically beating me to the point I wasn’t really cogent, they sent a whole riot squad to pick me up.

    • EveryoneDiesAlone@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Well, they would be scared to deal with armed tweakers, and then they would have to arrest them and file a bunch of paperwork, show up in court, yada yada yada.

      Evicting you was just a fun thing to do that presented zero risk and had minimal paperwork.

      It’s crazy that police enjoy the massive public support they do. People are dumb, and police shows on tv do a number on dumb people.

  • snow_bunny@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Unironically, if we had 376 armed drag queens and furries instead, not nearly as many children would have died.

    • Dud@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I feel like the armed drag queens would have absolutely handled the situation expediently. Most I know adore children and have to be brave by default to publicly go against society in such a typically colorful fashion.

  • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Maybe by more guns in school, they meant the kids should carry the guns.

    1. Kids buy gun
    2. Take guns to class with them
    3. Gun industry profits
    4. ??? 🤷‍♀️
    5. World peace
      • maniii@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        BULLETS ARE 1,000,000 USD ! :-D And the Trigger is LOCKED ( Unlock trigger-per-pull for 1,000,000 USD ! )

          • maniii@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Some former EA exec I believe suggested that in-game bullet purchase and in-game reload-purchase would be the bestest thing ever in gaming. Rickkytelli or some such jackass. I am just re-upchucking his idea to IRL guns instead of Game-guns. :-D

        • CaptDust@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          I’m not joking

          Seventy-three votes separated Uvalde County Sheriff Ruben Nolasco and challenger Otto Arnim in the Republican Party primary runoff on May 28, 2024. Voters chose the incumbent sheriff for a likely second term with 1,241 votes compared to Arnim’s 1,168. Nolasco won 51.52 percent of the vote, with 2,729 of the more than 17,000 registered voters casting a ballot.

          The Uvalde County Democratic Party did not field a candidate for sheriff, unless a write-in candidate files for the post this summer, Nolasco does not have a challenger en route to reelection in November.