• ThatWeirdGuy1001@sh.itjust.works
        30·
        1 year ago

        This is my favorite argument to tell blue lives matter people. Along with my original point

        I’ve even gotten a few of them to truly understand that it is inherently racist by design by using these two arguments specifically

        • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
          2·
          1 year ago

          Sorry, can you clarify what the argument is? I read the comment you replied to and it didn’t seem like an argument so much as a fact check, which while powerful requires something kind of different. Am I missing something?

          • abraxas@lemmy.mlEnglish
            2·
            1 year ago

            That “Blue Lives Matter” wasn’t ever about caring about police lives, only a counter to Black Lives Matter. Black Lives Matter was formed because innocent black people kept being killed. Blue Lives Matter was formed because being challenged with that fact offended them.

            When a police officer shoots a black man because he’s intimidated by his skin color, the defense “his life matters, too” is bullshit. Since Blue Lives Matter didn’t actually have anything to do with violence against police officers, it’s bullshit.

            Ironically, I would say Blue Lives Matter caused people to target police officers, who really hadn’t been targeted before. One could argue it is more accurate that Blue Lives Matter caused more unjustified police incidents against black people, which caused more misguided vigilante-style violence against police.

      • abraxas@lemmy.mlEnglish
        10·
        1 year ago

        Yeah, but a lot of dumb people who could have supported BLM were swayed by Blue Lives Matter or All Lives Matter bullshit, especially if they work in or around emergency. There’s a lot of non-conservatives in emergency fields that are especially succeptable to that kind of bullshit despite being otherwise good human beings.

        I’ve talked at least two away from the “Blue/All Lives Matter” ledge. You have to do it delicately, but the whole problem with all this shit is that there ARE people who are not really racist who can be convinced that “there’s a lot of cops dying in BLM riots” because that’s what they’re being told. When you have black friends who says “I don’t want to be anywhere near BLM because they just make us look bad”, you know that people are spreading some real fake shit. But instead of hating on them, you can just show them that BLM is not riots and Blue Lives Matter is not about stopping cops from being killed.

        And then, the ones who aren’t racist… they do listen.

        • InputZero@lemmy.ml
          5·
          1 year ago

          I am not an American, so I’m not means an expert on anything American. What I do think is that globally, us on the political left are shit at making slogans at least compared to the political right. While I can’t deny that Defund the Police resonated with people who have been oppressed by them their whole lives, I also can’t deny it doesn’t actually do anything to inform bystanders of the solution being proposed. The ‘gentry’ who actually have the political power to effect change, and in fact had the opposite effect. Honestly I think actors on the political right just spend a lot more time and money on spinning a good message.

          Tl;Dr; BLMs message was so confusing it made it so right wing actors could flip Defund the Police on its head and scare centralists from the idea.

          • abraxas@lemmy.mlEnglish
            5·
            1 year ago

            I’ll give a different angle, as I see it.

            A problem is that reality is complicated and makes shit for soundbytes. That means your options are to lie to constituents, or to actually have policy ideals that are just harder to explain.

            Defund the Police is a great example. We simply lean on the police too heavily. We DO need to defund them. They should not be the first line for mental health breaks, the first line for non-physical domestic disputes, etc. I know other countries do this, but in the US I would argue the current format of police shouldn’t be used for situations where violence is unlikely… and yeah, I mean things like driving infractions. Not only are they not great at it, but they are also not TRUSTED. In a country where someone getting a ticket for pulling through a stop sign literally fears for their life because they’re black, we should be offering a justice system that makes such a danger impossible because it won’t be kill-trained people with guns giving them their ticket.

            Similarly, our police are over-equipped. Too many SWAT teams, used too lightly in situations without elevated risk or without enough red tape to require better information-gathering. And not unlike a bad comic book, SWAT team members have to hide their identity because they know the masses hate and fear them. I’ve known spouses of SWAT team members, and the rule is that nobody but those closest to you can know that’s what they do. Not unlike drug dealers.

            So stepping back, all those things are a nice ball of “what I fucking want to vote for”. If you had 5 seconds to explain it, what would you say? I would say “defund the police”. Because it’s strictly accurate in a dozen ways AND it isn’t even pretending to say “abolish the police” because that would be “absolish the police”.

            So yeah. The Right looks at Defund the Police and says “see, they’re trying to abolish the police. Let’s back the blue” and it’s all over.

            I’m gonna say BLM was the same. BLM had clear numbers, clear figures, a clear message. Stop killing black people. They had people marching with (posters of) unarmed black people who were killed without any reasonable suspicion of a crime. They had everything you could need. But then you had an orange fascist prick saying “All lives matter”. NO SHIT all lives matter. But how many white people do these idiots know who have been wrongfullly abused by police? Post-BLM, we are way down on black deaths by cop; it’s only TWICE their representation.

            You say you’re not an American, so I get it. But the real problem with BLM is exactly what we have complained it is… full-on-racism. BLM became a riot in many areas because White Supremecists working with the police started the riots to give an excuse to end the protests. The message was trampled on, not because it was bad, but because we are a horrible country right now. And yes, innocent people only see the fallout and the sound bytes on TV. When the most powerful man in the country has this message that “all lives matter”, anyone who is not politically savvy is going to just nod their head and agree.

            • woobie@lemmy.ml
              0·
              1 year ago

              You’ve made some good points. I hope that a fair number of people read through the whole post, but I fear that not enough will. Most seem to have about a three sentence threshold.

              • abraxas@lemmy.mlEnglish
                1·
                1 year ago

                Bingo! And it’s kinda hard to make a soundbyte explanation for why something is too complicated for a soundbyte :)

        • Yondu_the_Ravager@lemmy.world
          17·
          1 year ago

          I don’t understand what you’re getting at. In case my original comment wasn’t clear, I was (I guess too subtly) pointing out the problematic and racist origins of the blue lives matter phrase

          • scarabic@lemmy.world
            8·
            1 year ago

            You left the end of your statement unsaid so it wasn’t clear to me. It could be taken more than one way. Such as “Don’t complain that blue lives don’t exist, because if BLM hadn’t started it, blue lives wouldn’t even be a thing.”

            Glad to know you didn’t mean it that way.

    • Huxley75@lemm.ee
      11·
      1 year ago

      I’m stealing this! Right on. “Blue Lives Matter” is just for Smurfs and the cyanotic.

      • propaganja@lemmy.world
        26·
        1 year ago

        Even if it’s counted, is it even more dangerous, counted using the same metrics? I have no idea, but it’s not far-fetched that it’s not, at least if we mean American soldiers. Like, it’s way more dangerous to be an Iraqi civilian than an American soldier.

      • abraxas@lemmy.mlEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        Really depends on the country. In the US, death rate is really low. There might be a couple instances of getting shot at, but you’re so much less likely to die of other causes it ironically makes up for it.

        Of course, you get these spikes in death rates in the military, like if you’re sent to an active warzone. We just measure “dangerous jobs” by year.

  • KeyserSoze61@lemmy.world
    86·
    1 year ago

    But the other professions don’t need to defend themselves against blatant racism and abuse of power. “This is a dangerous profession, which is why we shot an unarmed black teenager 117 times.”

    • TheSporkBomber@lemmy.world
      62·
      1 year ago

      Covid was also a top fatality result of police for a while there. Just showcasing their amazing decision making skills as they refuse to get vaccinated.

      Clearly they represent the best of the best there.

      • Hot Saucerman@lemmy.ml
        25·
        1 year ago

        My local city jail literally got shut down by the tail-end of the pandemic, because of all the COVID outbreaks due to none of the cops would wear masks.

    • scottywh@lemmy.world
      11·
      1 year ago

      Delivery drivers also are more likely than police to be subject to robberies…

      It’s also not unheard of for robbery to end in murder.

    • mister_flibble@lemm.ee
      8·
      1 year ago

      I worked in a worker’s comp adjacent field for a while. The majority of injuries in police were absolutely vehicular in nature. Second place would be “was trying to chase a far more physically fit suspect on foot and fell/pulled something”, that happens waaaay more frequently than you would expect.

    • Tyfud@lemmy.one
      14·
      1 year ago

      That’s insane. How in the world do they rationalize that to themselves?

      • Mossy Feathers (She/They)@pawb.social
        22·
        1 year ago

        Because they make ridiculous amounts of money. There are very few people who can do the job, it’s extremely dangerous and even if you don’t get injured or killed, it’s very hard on your body. Iirc most divers only do it 2-3 times a year because it takes a long time to safely decompress at the depths they usually work at (it can take days or even weeks) and then they have to take time off to physically and mentally recover.

      • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
        22·
        1 year ago

        Compress a large percentage of the world’s wealth into a small fraction of the population and suddenly 150k dollars a year, to potentially more based on the danger, seems worth it to some people.

      • Yendor@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        1 year ago

        It’s a combination of $2000/day wages, combined with a “I’m smarter than all those idiots who died” attitude.

    • abraxas@lemmy.mlEnglish
      33·
      1 year ago

      And yet they do, statistically, die more than most other jobs. Pilots have every business being on here because the comic creator just literally took a “top X dangerous jobs list” and turned it into a meme.

      Passengering is safe. Piloting, less so. Just like riding in a bus is statistically safer than being a career driver. Because you get off the bus, and that driver does 7 more runs. Alongside a long-haul truck driver carrying zero people. Etc. But Piloting is more dangerous than driving a truck.

      • Coreidan@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        Piloting of what aircraft type?

        It’s pretty rare to hear about a commercial flight resulting in a crash or even death.

        If you’re talking about commercial pilots flying around passengers then no it’s not dangerous at all, certainly not compared to truck drivers. To say it’s dangerous because they do it everyday is silly. Reality is it’s one of the safest forms of travel. Trucking is not nearly as safe and has a lot more risk factors involved.

        If you’re strictly talking about bush pilots then you might have a case but there’s not as many bush pilots compared to commercial pilots in order for it to significantly skew the statistics.

        A lot more truck drivers die in a year from accidents then commercial pilots. Calling it more dangerous is hella silly bro.

        • gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
          2·
          1 year ago

          I mean, we’re talking pretty much anyone who flies an airplane for any commercial purpose. Bush flying, remote cargo flights in small aircraft, crop-dusting, helicopter lifting, hell even helicopter logging.

          And while more truck drivers die annually than pilots, what we’re discussing here are RATES of death per capita, not individual deaths. An individual is statistically more likely to be killed flying as a commercial pilot (in any capacity) than a truck driver is to be killed while on the job.

    • Madison420@lemmy.world
      27·
      1 year ago

      Bush pilots probably drive the statistics up pretty far because it’s dangerous in general and many of them keep flying long after commercial retirement ages.

    • darthskull@lemmy.ca
      9·
      1 year ago

      Most pilots aren’t commerical passenger pilots. Most are crop dusters and priority freight

  • Coreidan@lemmy.world
    19·
    1 year ago

    Where do you get the idea that pilot is the 3rd most dangerous job? How often do you hear about pilots dying? And more dangerous than driving jobs? Lol no.

  • Holzkohlen@feddit.de
    14·
    1 year ago

    It’s because they have too much power. Gets to their head. Same with politicians, though they usually don’t go round shooting people.

  • darkseer@lemmy.world
    13·
    1 year ago

    Police officers have the highest suicide rate after Doctors and Dentists. Not sure if it’s because of poor stress management or being constantly in contact with some of the shittiest people to live.

    • Coreidan@lemmy.world
      12·
      1 year ago

      “being constantly in contact with some of the shittiest people to live.”

      So other cops then. I’d probably kill myself too if I were a cop.

      • hglman@lemmy.world
        2·
        1 year ago

        Lets be honest, plenty non cops are really shitty in ways different from the shitty that drives you to be a cop. Cops do deal with these other people as well. So a cop has shitty people on all sides.

        Its an impossible tasks and society must construct itself as to not have police bc they cannot do the job asked even regardless of the value of the work (which is none as well)

  • Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    11·
    1 year ago

    Although cops are becoming more and more power drunk it doesn’t mean their job isn’t dangerous, especially in countries* where every nutcase can get a semi-auto easily.

    *USA, war torn countries , Latin America.