I’ve lived in London, UK in dense urban housing, the only time I’ve ever spoken to anyone in the area was when a neighbour below had a water leak caused by the floor caving in underneath what could only very charitably be called my bathroom.
He could barely speak English and seemed to be living in the same squalor studio but with a family of 4, he was a man and like 20 years older than me.
Then I moved out to a flat in a smaller town, very suburban, closest shop was like a 10 min walk. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person ever speaking in public apart from groups of university students, whom I wouldn’t want to approach for fear of being accused of being a groomer (I’m trans and besides that frankly I would’ve kept my hand firmly on my wallet if some adult approached me out of nowhere when I was in uni), and 50 year olds out on the town either with kids or just getting lunch for work.
I tried to organise with my neighbours once to get the landlord to install some sound insulation, but I asked them to at least stop blasting the music from speakers at night at their daily house parties of 20-30 people (they already lived in a house share of 6, packed like rats) in the meantime, which apparently crossed a line and caused a conflict that endured for years and involved attempts on their behalf to scam me into paying their energy bill by going to the landlord.
All other attempts at talking were met with gaslighting and aggression, I had to resort to discussing it with the landlord because I was worried they were gonna cave in the ceiling with their attempts at smashing things at their floor so I’d give up and leave, fortunately a guitar amplifier aimed squarely at the ceiling blasting the X-Files theme throughout the night got them to stop and we are now in a temporary cease-fire.
That’s probably the closest to earnest human communication I’ve experienced with a stranger. Fwiw I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed anyone else talking to anyone else like that either, in fact I’d say by sheer coincidence I’m the only person I know who even has seen their neighbours.
Closest my best friend got was an auto-generated emaul from their landlord’s agency filing a noise complaint on behalf of neighbours when we both could’ve sworn their place was empty of furniture, nevermind people.
He doesn’t “do politics”, and when I prompted him, he didn’t seem to even understand what the word meant or how policy would even relate to anyone’s day to day life. All he follows is K-Pop and gadgets. I only know him from school, the rest of my friends are my exes.
Some anarchist I am, huh?
When it comes to friend circles, either people are exactly as radicalised as I am in theory, but don’t bother with any praxis because they don’t know what to do either or are so incredibly depressed by even broaching the subject they avoid it altogether, apart from maybe donating to the green party or more realistically some weird debate streamer, or some of the more far removed acquaintances don’t understand politics and probably couldn’t even name who the current prime minister is, all they care about is football and maybe if they’re nerdy - FIFA on da Xbox with the lads. Nevermind politics, even basic history usually escapes them. Maybe they’ve gone on twitter once to look up their favourite brand and now say Trump seems like a charismatic funny guy.
A friend of mine used to say that about Putin - that was the extent of her political opinions that and being “kind”, despite the fact I repeatedly told her it’s not very nice when I’m a literal refugee from Russia thanks to the guy.
A mutual friend of ours did get radicalised eventually - she became a nazi, not like rightoid or alt-right but dead on “dear leader” hitler-loving nazi and excitedly once showed me a portrait of some SS guy she drew which she expected me to like despite knowing I was trans, (later, she offered me to try meth with her, which was funny but not actually that odd since we did drugs together all the time) we used to at least have stuff to talk about though because she seemed to at least think actively about the world, even if her conclusions to almost all problems were invariably some form of eugenics and “more white people”, even public transport would be solved with this, according to her.
When it comes to the workplace, I think we used to have some vaguely political discussions, but as my immigrant status hinges on maintaining a job, and it’s in tech - for what has now been acquired and is now managed by an American multinational and with that brought the attitude of that culture, I tread very very lightly.
Needless to say, the alienation is brutal. Most people generally seem like a different species, I think me and my cat have far more in common than I do with any people, whether it understands Kropotkin or not. People and events seem procedurally generated, they appear just as randomly and quickly as they disappear, no one seems to have more than 2 lines of dialogue.
Even outside of politics, most everything I am deeply invested in is something seemingly no ordinary person has ever even heard of, at least on the internet people seem real, hivemind af sure, but not as atomized. Maybe in the US people are just way more engaged with this stuff.
Thanks for linking that post, it’s a neat story, but it seems to start in medias res of having already organized an entire event, not exactly helpful instructions wise, but inspiring for sure.
First of all, a hug from far, and may the alienation go away soon.
Second, I’ve found there’s no point in discussing politics with people. Not with friends, not with strangers. There’s no point in trying to find people ‘aligned enough’ with my political ideas. Since I’ve accepted that I feel that my attempts at spreading anarchism lead so much further! As long as I never mention the word (or any other political jargon), and always, always approach my fellow humans as humans and try to inquire about what moves them, not tell them what I think they should do.
What do you think is missing in your neighbourhood? If you think it’s human contact, try to start there and invent ways to encourage friendly contact. Maybe create a point for food sharing or book sharing. If people are too shy to speak to each other in person at this point, give them other options, so they can lose their shyness gradually.
Alienation from other people and thinking they are not worth the bother is a relatively sure sign of depression.
I am not saying its only a you problem, and people around you are probably depressed as well, but I think it’s worth viewing your interactions with other people through that self-reflective lense some time.
I connect with some people just fine, and I’m not low on mood or anything, I’m a pretty thick-skinned in this regard so I don’t think it’s me really. All of this, as shitty as it is, I don’t let it get to me, I huff the green utopia flavoured hopium
I think it’s just this country sadly, as the other poster mentioned, every single person I’ve connected with is either from another country originally (or still) or has more of a global cultural outlook thanks to the internet.
As an expat here in England, you guys really hate each other and it’s super odd. I’ve experienced more psycho neighbors here than I have literally anywhere else, I’ve never had problems before moving here. I never have problems here when the neighbors are other immigrants like me, though. There’s a big cultural issue here with this and it’s worse the closer you get to London. It’s definitely not everyone, though and the good ones are the kindest most smart, meek individuals I’ve ever met… I highly recommend the book Watching the English. Classism and bullying is deeply ingrained here but there is a lot of hope. It is changing. Scotland isn’t like this.
What sort of things do you like to do? Do you want to be outside, work with the elderly, teach, or ?
True honestly, I’m not a Briton originally, and the people I’ve made the best connections with aren’t either, or are heavily global in culture thanks to the internet.
As for what I want to do I’d love to organize some kind of thing for queer people, immigrants and maybe other outsiders, in my perfect fantasy of a community I picture outdoor activities, maybe hikes or bicycle rides or longboarding or some such, and facilitate culture sharing exchange and just a place to get to know people, who may be one day able to help each other with mutual aid and whatnot as well as organize ways we could all pitch in and perhaps help the unhoused etc, all in an unofficial manner, under no banner as simply good samaritans if that makes sense. Doing that, with other like-minded people - I think would be as close to paradise as one could reasonably expect in our time.
If you would like recommendations, I can point you to places to look for outdoor stuff. :) Every though about doing community archaeology or maybe working with local rewilding projects?
I’ve got to say, a lot of your responses seem like you are pre-convinced that there isn’t any solution to your problem. I think that’s why you’ve been getting so much snark/pushback. (Are you looking for genuine help, or just needing to vent? Either way, it’s ok. Separating the two might be beneficial to you though, that’s all I’m saying here)
Did you read Schmorp’s full story, or just the one link I sent? I know it’s not step by step instructions, but if you’re serious about organizing something I feel like there are a lot of good tips you could pick up on from the way that they did/are doing things.
Do you have any libraries you could frequent? Many of the unknowns you have could be addressed at a library and I think they would have much more relevant answers pertaining to your locality.
Also, here’s a link to something that I just saw here, that seemed like it could be potentially relevant/useful: https://mobilizon.fr/
I’ve lived in London, UK in dense urban housing, the only time I’ve ever spoken to anyone in the area was when a neighbour below had a water leak caused by the floor caving in underneath what could only very charitably be called my bathroom.
He could barely speak English and seemed to be living in the same squalor studio but with a family of 4, he was a man and like 20 years older than me.
Then I moved out to a flat in a smaller town, very suburban, closest shop was like a 10 min walk. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person ever speaking in public apart from groups of university students, whom I wouldn’t want to approach for fear of being accused of being a groomer (I’m trans and besides that frankly I would’ve kept my hand firmly on my wallet if some adult approached me out of nowhere when I was in uni), and 50 year olds out on the town either with kids or just getting lunch for work.
I tried to organise with my neighbours once to get the landlord to install some sound insulation, but I asked them to at least stop blasting the music from speakers at night at their daily house parties of 20-30 people (they already lived in a house share of 6, packed like rats) in the meantime, which apparently crossed a line and caused a conflict that endured for years and involved attempts on their behalf to scam me into paying their energy bill by going to the landlord.
All other attempts at talking were met with gaslighting and aggression, I had to resort to discussing it with the landlord because I was worried they were gonna cave in the ceiling with their attempts at smashing things at their floor so I’d give up and leave, fortunately a guitar amplifier aimed squarely at the ceiling blasting the X-Files theme throughout the night got them to stop and we are now in a temporary cease-fire.
That’s probably the closest to earnest human communication I’ve experienced with a stranger. Fwiw I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed anyone else talking to anyone else like that either, in fact I’d say by sheer coincidence I’m the only person I know who even has seen their neighbours.
Closest my best friend got was an auto-generated emaul from their landlord’s agency filing a noise complaint on behalf of neighbours when we both could’ve sworn their place was empty of furniture, nevermind people.
He doesn’t “do politics”, and when I prompted him, he didn’t seem to even understand what the word meant or how policy would even relate to anyone’s day to day life. All he follows is K-Pop and gadgets. I only know him from school, the rest of my friends are my exes.
Some anarchist I am, huh?
When it comes to friend circles, either people are exactly as radicalised as I am in theory, but don’t bother with any praxis because they don’t know what to do either or are so incredibly depressed by even broaching the subject they avoid it altogether, apart from maybe donating to the green party or more realistically some weird debate streamer, or some of the more far removed acquaintances don’t understand politics and probably couldn’t even name who the current prime minister is, all they care about is football and maybe if they’re nerdy - FIFA on da Xbox with the lads. Nevermind politics, even basic history usually escapes them. Maybe they’ve gone on twitter once to look up their favourite brand and now say Trump seems like a charismatic funny guy.
A friend of mine used to say that about Putin - that was the extent of her political opinions that and being “kind”, despite the fact I repeatedly told her it’s not very nice when I’m a literal refugee from Russia thanks to the guy.
A mutual friend of ours did get radicalised eventually - she became a nazi, not like rightoid or alt-right but dead on “dear leader” hitler-loving nazi and excitedly once showed me a portrait of some SS guy she drew which she expected me to like despite knowing I was trans, (later, she offered me to try meth with her, which was funny but not actually that odd since we did drugs together all the time) we used to at least have stuff to talk about though because she seemed to at least think actively about the world, even if her conclusions to almost all problems were invariably some form of eugenics and “more white people”, even public transport would be solved with this, according to her.
When it comes to the workplace, I think we used to have some vaguely political discussions, but as my immigrant status hinges on maintaining a job, and it’s in tech - for what has now been acquired and is now managed by an American multinational and with that brought the attitude of that culture, I tread very very lightly.
Needless to say, the alienation is brutal. Most people generally seem like a different species, I think me and my cat have far more in common than I do with any people, whether it understands Kropotkin or not. People and events seem procedurally generated, they appear just as randomly and quickly as they disappear, no one seems to have more than 2 lines of dialogue.
Even outside of politics, most everything I am deeply invested in is something seemingly no ordinary person has ever even heard of, at least on the internet people seem real, hivemind af sure, but not as atomized. Maybe in the US people are just way more engaged with this stuff.
Thanks for linking that post, it’s a neat story, but it seems to start in medias res of having already organized an entire event, not exactly helpful instructions wise, but inspiring for sure.
First of all, a hug from far, and may the alienation go away soon.
Second, I’ve found there’s no point in discussing politics with people. Not with friends, not with strangers. There’s no point in trying to find people ‘aligned enough’ with my political ideas. Since I’ve accepted that I feel that my attempts at spreading anarchism lead so much further! As long as I never mention the word (or any other political jargon), and always, always approach my fellow humans as humans and try to inquire about what moves them, not tell them what I think they should do.
What do you think is missing in your neighbourhood? If you think it’s human contact, try to start there and invent ways to encourage friendly contact. Maybe create a point for food sharing or book sharing. If people are too shy to speak to each other in person at this point, give them other options, so they can lose their shyness gradually.
Schmorp! I was just talking about you!! :)
Alienation from other people and thinking they are not worth the bother is a relatively sure sign of depression.
I am not saying its only a you problem, and people around you are probably depressed as well, but I think it’s worth viewing your interactions with other people through that self-reflective lense some time.
I connect with some people just fine, and I’m not low on mood or anything, I’m a pretty thick-skinned in this regard so I don’t think it’s me really. All of this, as shitty as it is, I don’t let it get to me, I huff the green utopia flavoured hopium
I think it’s just this country sadly, as the other poster mentioned, every single person I’ve connected with is either from another country originally (or still) or has more of a global cultural outlook thanks to the internet.
As an expat here in England, you guys really hate each other and it’s super odd. I’ve experienced more psycho neighbors here than I have literally anywhere else, I’ve never had problems before moving here. I never have problems here when the neighbors are other immigrants like me, though. There’s a big cultural issue here with this and it’s worse the closer you get to London. It’s definitely not everyone, though and the good ones are the kindest most smart, meek individuals I’ve ever met… I highly recommend the book Watching the English. Classism and bullying is deeply ingrained here but there is a lot of hope. It is changing. Scotland isn’t like this.
What sort of things do you like to do? Do you want to be outside, work with the elderly, teach, or ?
True honestly, I’m not a Briton originally, and the people I’ve made the best connections with aren’t either, or are heavily global in culture thanks to the internet.
As for what I want to do I’d love to organize some kind of thing for queer people, immigrants and maybe other outsiders, in my perfect fantasy of a community I picture outdoor activities, maybe hikes or bicycle rides or longboarding or some such, and facilitate culture sharing exchange and just a place to get to know people, who may be one day able to help each other with mutual aid and whatnot as well as organize ways we could all pitch in and perhaps help the unhoused etc, all in an unofficial manner, under no banner as simply good samaritans if that makes sense. Doing that, with other like-minded people - I think would be as close to paradise as one could reasonably expect in our time.
If you would like recommendations, I can point you to places to look for outdoor stuff. :) Every though about doing community archaeology or maybe working with local rewilding projects?
I’ve got to say, a lot of your responses seem like you are pre-convinced that there isn’t any solution to your problem. I think that’s why you’ve been getting so much snark/pushback. (Are you looking for genuine help, or just needing to vent? Either way, it’s ok. Separating the two might be beneficial to you though, that’s all I’m saying here)
Did you read Schmorp’s full story, or just the one link I sent? I know it’s not step by step instructions, but if you’re serious about organizing something I feel like there are a lot of good tips you could pick up on from the way that they did/are doing things.
Do you have any libraries you could frequent? Many of the unknowns you have could be addressed at a library and I think they would have much more relevant answers pertaining to your locality.
Also, here’s a link to something that I just saw here, that seemed like it could be potentially relevant/useful: https://mobilizon.fr/