Hi there, I’m a registered nurse in Phoenix, Arizona and I’m seriously considering moving abroad because this country is driving me insane for a lot of reasons. I was considering moving to Israel since I’m Jewish and I’ve heard they have a better healthcare system there and pay nurses well but this war has made me not really consider that anymore, so I’m open to suggestions. Thanks
Personally, as a fellow Jewish leftist I’d advise against moving to Israel. If you think politics are toxic here (maybe I’m reading into what you mean by things driving you insane), Israel is much worse. I’m not sure which countries have the easiest visa process but you probably have some flexibility as an RN. You could look into a travel nurse job that lets you move across Europe and try a few different places out.
By driving me insane, I was in fact referring to the rightward drift of the US. And I don’t just mean Trump, but the entire GOP and the fact the only opposition to them is the limp centrist Democratic Party. So yeah, Israel is probably much worse post 10/7.
Europe would be cool, Germany especially though I’ve heard its less safe now.
Israeli politics have been fucked for a long time. Netanyahu has always been a dangerous extremist, and the fact that people repeatedly voted for him speaks volumes for the political culture.
To be fair there’s huge protests against Bibi but your point is well taken
There are protests against Bibi because of his disregard for the hostages’ lives and attempt to destroy Israeli democracy. His party isn’t losing support AFAIK, and the right wing is actually growing.
Oh?
Yeah. The protests aren’t because Bibi’s actions are too right-wing; they’re because even as a far-right leader he’s doing a shit job. Him being a genocidal far right leader isn’t, as a rule, an issue with the general Israeli public. You can look at this if you wanna lose some faith in humanity.
I knew the protests were more about his attempt to become Israel’s Putin but I assumed some of the opposition was to the war but guess not…
In Germany nurses are often not well payd IMO, but there are different kinds of nurses, so idk… there are strikes in the news from time to time. … but at least it’s okay and well accepted to strike in Germany
Yeah but I guess I’d be concerned a bit about the rise of antisemitism there Ive heard about
In Germany? You’ll be fine, they’re very aware of the threat of antisemitism but it’s not any worse than elsewhere.
Now, whether German culture is enjoyable is another question.
Well I like beer so doesn’t that make me German deep down? :p
Liking one of humanity’s oldest and most commonly drank beverages does not make you German, no
If you’re concerned about a rightward drift, you’re not going to like many places in Europe. I also wouldn’t leave a country because of a temporary political shift. America’s left is more powerful now than it’s been in close to 100 years and it’s only growing with the next generation. If politics is the main reason you want to leave, I’d seriously encourage you to rethink things. That seems very shortsighted, especially given the political tide in Europe.
Is Europe going further right than the US?
no
Socially it is moving pretty fast to the right in many places. They still have trains and healthcare. For now. Most US cities are as left leaning as Europe is.
Than the US? Eastern Europe, sure. A lot of the rest is heading in the wrong direction, whereas the US seems to be moving in the right (left) direction.
The US is moving to the left?
Have you met a gen Z kid? The most conservative Americans are dying off and religion is TANKING at a record pace.
I hope you’re right
If by Eastern Europe you mean Belarus and Hungary, maybe.
I’m a nurse in germany. From what I hear from colleagues who studied/worked abroad, the job is very different in Germany than most other countries. (I haven’t met anyone who worked in the US.) Mostly, nursing in germany involves a lot less medical tasks, which are reserved for doctors. In turn you’ll do a lot more bedside care.
So its more like patient care technicians?
I had to google what that is. According to this link https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/careers/what-does-a-patient-care-technician-do It involves a lot of the same tasks. I do everything that is listed there, except escorting patients and cleaning rooms. But i also have more tasks. I administer medication (I can only administer medication prescribed by a doctor). I change dressings. I do lots of coordination (e.g. with the surgery or radiology team, also stuff around release, like how does the patient get home, where does a patient go if he can’t live alone anymore, where do they get their medication, who will change dressings etc.). I’m also the first responder in an emergency like cardiac arrest. I should probably add that this will vary across hospitals. I work in a mid size hospital (about 500 beds). Generally the bigger the hospital the more additional staff is there to take over some of the “patient care technician tasks” from nurses. Also there are obviously jobs a nurse can do that involve medical tasks that almost exclusively, like working in an emergency room or as a surgical assistant.
Interesting, thanks for this. I’ll keep all this in mind
If you’re interested in a nursing job in Germany, hit me up. I get a bonus if I bring in a new nurse ;-)
Can I message you directly?
Sort of like LPNs. Education is similar as well
Germany/Austria/Switzerland. You absolutely need to learn German though. It’s not unsafe here, but the right shift is happening all across Europe right now.
I speak fluent German so not a problem
In Switzerland we pretty much lack professional healthcare staff all the time (like half our doctors are from Germany it feels). I’m not working in the industry but afaik nursing is better paid than in Germany, just other conditions around the job are very stressful and make many people leave.
During Covid, things got bad enough that a popular initiative by the trade unions got passed which demanded augmentations to the working conditions. The concrete improvements will soon get voted on and hopefully quickly implemented.
If you already speak German fluently, learning to understand Swiss German will hopefully not be too much of a challenge to you.
Update: I looked it up and a professional nurse makes on average a bit more than median income here.
Everything is better paid in Switzerland, like, a lot. And also, you’re then living in Switzerland… Since OP speaks German I would also highly recommend putting Switzerland at the top of the list since you’ll be 2/3x better paid than neighbouring countries (and, again, living in beautiful, lovely Switzerland).
It’s as safe as it ever was and much safer than most places here in Germany. But you’ll need to speak German to get a job in the healthcare sector here. And the pay isn’t great.
I speak fluent German actually so that wouldnt be a problem
I’d consider Bolzano. You’d get by with German, and you get to live in a beautiful part of the arguably most beautiful country of Europe.
Bolzano
I forgot that theres a German part of Italy. That would be very cool to live in, best of both worlds
If you try to get away from fascism, moving to Italy might not be such a great idea.
There are right wing populists in virtually every democracy these days. It’s not an issue unique to the US. I think it’s a byproduct of our times. Economic uncertainty + geopolitical tensions and war = hard shift to the right.
Fair enough
Yes but Germany saw millions of protestors over a sub-20% party. In the US, 50% of people want to vote in someone who is openly fascist and wants to abolish democracy and round up immigrants in camps.
Couple of things
There was a 62% voter turnout in the 2020 election. 46.8% of voters voted for Trump.
0.62 x 0.468 = .290
So actually, 29% of people voted for Trump.
If we do the same calculation for AfD in 2021. 76.6% voter turnout in Germany and AfD got 10.4% of votes.
0.766 x 0.104 = 0.799
So the difference looks like 29% to 8% US to Germany.
But you have to remember the US and Germany are different political systems. There are only two parties in the US, so each of the big parties (DNC, GOP) have many different factions. Moderate Republicans would be an entirely different party from Trumpian “MAGA” Republicans if the US had a party system like Germany.
They functionally ally together in order to form a government, much like different parties will do in parliamentary systems in Europe.
So if we for example take the center-right Christian conservative party and add that to AfD, which in my opinion more closely resembles the GOP, we get the following numbers.
76.6% voter turnout. AfD got 10.4% of votes. CDU got 24.1% of votes.
0.766 x (0.104 + 0.241) = .264
So we’re actually looking at a ratio more like 29% US to 26% Germany. Fundamentally not that different.
And last thing I’d like to add. Shifts in the political Overton window like we’re seeing right now happens at an exponential rate. It’s why Germany in the early 1900s went from a liberal democratic society to full blown Fascist dictatorship fairly quickly.
I think the process has started in the US first, but the movement is shifting to other countries too. US news is emphasized because of the importance of the US as a superpower, but this process of the hard shift to the right is happening in many countries.
We see it not only in certain parties gaining ground like Fratelli d’Italia, Sweden Democrats, Rassemblement National, Alternative für Deutschland, etc - but the rhetoric changing. Anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim rhetoric that would be rare a decade or two ago is seeing a large increase.
We see populist like Argentina’s Milei, Brazil’s Bolsonaro, Canada’s Poilievre, etc all following the footsteps of Trump and being wildly successful. People globally feel insecure and it’s a ripe environment for these types of right-wing populists.
I view the US as the leader of the Zietgiest right now, much like Germany was the leader of the Zietgiest during WW2. It’s leading the pack, but we’re all headed towards the same destination.
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One trick you may be able to use if you’re of European descent is getting European citizenship by blood (I believe Italy, Spain, and a bunch of other countries allow for this) and then use the freedom the Schengen accords provide to move elsewhere in Europe, skipping a whole lot of paperwork. This way, you can, for example, work in Denmark without needing to go through the strict Danish immigration system (though validating your education may still need work).
My parents are of South African descent and afaik the only country I can move into automatically is Israel which atm is not on my list of movable countries. But Ill look into it for sure
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Thx!
Check out the Scandinavian countries, all of them blow away the rest of Europe and they are looking for medical professionals.
Norway especially looks attractive, especially with its strong left parties.
You’ll probably like countries that follows the Nordic Model
Prob yeah
If you don’t want to move far and want a similar but more centrist culture, you could move to Canada — this would make it easy to move back in the future if you want. And unlike many Americans, as a RN, you could actually move without much difficulty. I know a number of RNs who have made the move and are happy about it.
Canada is high on my list
Healthcare is kind of in a situation in many parts of Canada now. Look into the situation in each of the provinces you’re considering. (Healthcare is run at the provincial level, not federal)
I’m not in healthcare, but I’m trying to stay politically aware.
We’d love to have you. I just want you to be prepared with the best information.
Germany is desperate for nurses, currently. Just a heads-up though: Whether you’ll feel welcomed here sadly still depends on your skin color! And most Jews don’t show their heritage and faith publicly, again sadly for good reason.
As a person in technology, I envy you the chance to leverage a skill useful in the real world.
Uh? Is technology now exclusive to hobbies?
Sorry if this seems lazy, but Canada has a decent population of Jews. Since you are a nurse, you have a better chance of getting in. Obviously there’s a ton of paperwork involved, but might be worth looking into.
If you speak French, France might also be a good choice. Hella good worker’s rights there.
Not to brag but I speak French, Hebrew and German alongside English.
Yeah I’ve heavily considered Canada though ironically it seems they’re going to elect their own Trump and might become more like the US. Still, I’m seriously considering it.
Not a brag, your languages very relevant to finding a new place to live.
I wish good folks would stay and fight. But at the same time, I don’t blame anyone for leaving.
Yeah part of me wants to help make PHX more liberal, but another part of me just wants to get out.
I get it. I have friends and family who want to emigrate if orange idiot gets elected.
Yeah I mean I’m a woman so the fact he wants to end abortion rights once and for all alone makes me want to leave…
I’m hopeful–perhaps naively so–that he’s pissed off most of the women voters and he will lose. The justice system is taking way too long to put him in prison where he belongs.
Totally on your side there
Worth noting that the Prime Minister does not have the same executive powers as the President. If Polivere actually wins a majority of seats (unlikely), he’ll still have to work with everyone else to get things done.
It’s more likely the conservatives will win just enough seats to have to run a minority government and work with the Liberals, NDP, BQ and possibly Greens. And I don’t see the current conservative party surviving more than one election cycle.
French and German? Definitely Switzerland then!
about France, she may disagree with you : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY4w3Ljn6ks
Well in France they need police armed with machine guns to guard synagogues so probably not the best choice for me.
that’s the army, not the police.
yes, they became an awkward part of the daily life in cities since the bataclan attack. see Vigipirate. But they are not particularly guarding synagogues. You can see them in front of churches or in train stations or touristic and popular places too.
if you needed to add “leftist” to your name, i suppose you’re familiar with The Society of the Spectacle. They are not there to protect you, they’re there to make you feel protected (worse, to make you feel like you need constant protection!)
Damn if the army is needed, its even worse than I thought. I guess I’ll have to pass on France
it’s probably not as bad as you think.
Why the panic mode?
I mean if the army needs to be stationed on the streets for safety, then thats bad.
☞ The Society of the Spectacle
how do you pass any law that infringes on previously earned rights if you don’t create a sense of urgency?
Canada is a pretty good market for nurses.
I guess I can become a Canadian of convenience :P
I’m also an American who moved to Canada - I did that because my wife lives up here but I’ve found it an extremely welcoming culture.
Nice
Good luck! Not only is it’s expensive to do this, it will also take years.
If you manage to get it all figured out, please do not forget to update us all here!
Will do!
Thoughts on New Zealand or Austrailia?
I know nothing about them. I’d have to read up on them, like quality of life, safety, level of antisemitism, etc
Nz is more tolerant to different cultures at least in the 3 big cities, Australia offers a higher pay and lower living costs. However as a American they will not see you as much as an outsider. Crimes in NZ are the cost of living.
Interesting, I have heard AUS has like the highest quality of life on Earth so that does make it somewhat appealing. That and the good weather.
Australia also has yearly floods, wildfires or tornadoes depending on the area. And the wildlife will try to kill you.
As an Aussie, I can say the trope of “everything wants you dead” is highly overhyped. I’ve seen three venomous snakes in the wild in my life (and I’ve mostly lived in rural areas) and there’s a couple of venomous spiders, but none that will kill you (unless you’re very young, very old, or very sick). Blue-ringed octopuses, crocodiles and sharks exist, but rarely cause human deaths. You know what we don’t have? Bears. Alligators. Cougars. Wolves. Very few carnivores trying to eat humans here, it’s mostly creatures with excellent self-defense mechanisms.
You know what we don’t have? Bears. Alligators. Cougars. Wolves.
Because they all got killed by box jellyfish, venomous spiders or drop bears!
Damn I forgot about the dropbears. Keep your wits about you and you’ll usually be OK, plus we teach kids to stay in pairs if they’re passing through a eucalyptus area.
Well, okay true lol
here in NZ I’d say we are much more progressive than the states, although we have a centre right government at the moment.
you will earn less than the US I would think, but I would hope that our quality of life is better.
Safety? not every second person is carrying a sidearm or protesting with an AR style firearm
Yeah a lack of gun culture would be a huge plus for me. I’ll def look into NZ
Spain? We’ve free Healthcare, lots of British and German immigrate here to escape the bad weather. I’ve never seen any jew communities in Spain but I don’t believe you’ll be in trouble for having said faith.
I don’t want to botch your plans but you gotta keep in mind that the educational systems in the EU and US are very different. Being a RN might not mean a lot abroad. I Germany there is however a lack of nurses and programs to recruit internationally. Maybe the situation is similar in other EU countries.
Where ever you are planing to go: Compare salaries cost of living, and what is publicly funded and what not. I think many people are turned off from moving because salaries are lower…
An RN degree in the US is often a bachelor’s degree. They didn’t really have university degrees for nurses in Germany (there are nursing management degrees). There is obviously a licensing test, but that should be the only barrier.
Check out Switzerland. Huge private healthcare network, expensive country but the salary is high too. Excellent public transport, good social protection… And magnificent landscapes, smack in the middle of Europe you have access to everywhere. You’ll have to learn French or German tho. It can be a bit quiet, but very very safe. Traditional food is meh, especially if you’re not a fan of melted cheese by the bucket.
Hard to get into as a foreigner, though. Best bet to get in would be through the various international orgs like the red cross or MSF
That’s why I mentioned “huge private healthcare network”: the employer does the Work Visa authorisation paperwork for you.
Switzerland intentionally makes things hard for Americans. For example, it’s very hard to open a bank account because the US government have harsh reporting rules for American citizens. And Switzerland has strong financial privacy rules. So they just deny American citizens.
In the UK visas are awarded on a points system. You get X number of points for having a college degree, Y points for it being in a certain field, etc. from what I’ve been told, nurses and doctors immediately qualify for all points required to get a visa just based on profession
However, as someone that moved to the UK 13 years ago, I don’t consider it a great destination. Prexit really screwed everything up. Having an EU passport would have been an incredible complement to my US passport, but now a British passport is no more useful that my American passport, especially since most of my travel is to the European continent. Also, the NHS is being gutted continually so in all id just say it’s not the most desirable location if you’re in the healthcare field.
At minimum, I’d look at countries that are properly in the EU, which includes Ireland. Other countries in western Europe would be great as well I think, depending on what kind of life you’re looking to live in. Something I’ve noticed is that generally Europe very quickly transitions from city to countryside. In the US you’ll get suburbs that stretch for dozens of miles past the core infrastructure of the nearest major city, where as in Europe it’s usually straight to farming fields and two lane roads.
France, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain and Germany would all be excellent locations to start a new life in healthcare I think. Each of those (except the Netherlands maybe) would expect you to be working towards fluency in their language though, so if you’re not interested in learning a foreign language that is definitely something to consider - which is why Ireland and Dublin specifically is so desirable to Tech companies and has been for the last 15 years.
In general I would say that as someone in the healthcare field, you do have a job that is valued highly as far as getting a visa is concerned in Europe.
