The position as an at-large delegate for the Florida Republican Party will be the highest-profile political role thus far for Barron, former President Donald Trump’s youngest son.
It will soon be Barron Trump’s time to step into the political spotlight.
Trump, former President Donald Trump’s youngest child, who will graduate from high school next week and has largely been kept out of the political spotlight, was picked by the Republican Party of Florida on Wednesday night as one of the state’s at-large delegates to the Republican National Convention, according to a list of delegates obtained by NBC News.
…
In a family full of politically involved children, Barron Trump, who turned 18 in March, has retained much more of a private life than his older brothers, Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr., both of whom will also be Florida at-large RNC delegates, along with Trump’s daughter Tiffany.
Not that I don’t agree with the general sentiment, or want to condone slave-owning in any way, but Thomas Jefferson only had children with one of his slaves, and from the historical record it appears to have been a consensual romantic relationship, insofar as one can have one with such a vast power difference (you cannot, really). He did oppose slavery privately, however he owned slaves, himself. Although, again from the record, it appears that they were more a part of his household, and treated (relatively) well, rather than how we typically imagine slaves in the South. Again, still not right, but compared to his contemporaries, you would call Jefferson a good owner. Still fucked up to say. A further disappointing fact is that, despite the fact that he deemed slavery reprehensible, he also deemed it to be political suicide to try to change the status quo. He brought the issue up a few times during his very long political career, but quickly abandoned the efforts. Additionally troubling is that, like many other in opposition to slavery at the time, he thought the solution was to ship black people to an island in the Caribbean so that they could form their own nation. This was not an uncommon opinion during that era – I believe even Lincoln bought into this “solution,” at one point. Also fucked up, but somehow better than the at-the-time alternative of continuing slavery.
Anyways, I don’t mean to undermine your point that many of the individuals who established this country did so with the idea that black and brown people, women, and the lower-class, were less-than, and established it in such a way that made it difficult or impossible for them to participate. However, I think your specific examples aren’t super accurate, and since I just read a pretty fair biography of Jefferson recently called Jefferson: Architect of American Liberty by John B Boles, I figured I would chime in. Really interesting and very much puts a great (in terms of historical stature) and flawed (in terms of our modern sense of morals) man in the context of his time and place.
“he only raped ONE slave”
-you
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Then you come in and put down all children by using it as an insult.
When children are talking about world politics do you get down on your knees and listen to their simple, half-understood analysis or do you say “thats nice, now go do your homework.”
That depends on if you’re an asshole or not.
The third option is you talk to children and listen to them and explain and teach.
That wasn’t one of the options you were given but nice try. That’s reserved for my own actual children, not jackasses who have the simplistic worldview of a child. Have you ever tried “explaining and teaching” online?
Yes those poor children…
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The amount of mental gymnastics people will do to suck off the image of dead dudes from 200 years ago who designed a dogshit system is too god damned high.
Like, what do you get out of sucking off dead dudes?
I thought they did a decent job of providing historical context while refraining from condoning Jefferson’s actions.
I personally feel you have him too much leniency. My first thought was to get angry because we constantly defy the founding men of the US (in not calling them fathers) and the idea of treating his slaves well and romantically dating a slave are the same talking points confederate apologists use.
I know you pointed this out in your original comment but the only way you can treat a slave well is to free them and you can’t have consensual sex with someone considered your property.
Considering Jefferson considered slavery morally questionable and deciding it was a necessary evil because of the political consequences (while making money off of slavery) he was either a hypocrite or a coward. Especially since John Adams was an abolitionist.
Jefferson was a slaver regardless of his thoughts on it at the end of the day. Let’s call a spade a spade
That is all true
I’m not really doing any mental gymnastics, nor am I sucking him off. I’m just pointing out that you weren’t historically accurate in your comment, despite the sentiment being correct. I also happen to think that history is interesting (despite most of it being about rich white men – lots of credit to People’s History of the United States by Howard Zinn) and that its important not to always paint over it with a wide brush soaked with our own modern sense of ethics and politics.
Edit: Also, I’m literally a socialist. You could be less reductive.
Read the post or shut up
Sorry I read it and came to a different conclusion than you. I guess it’s not a shocker this place is also full of conservatives that just want people who disagree with them to “just shut up.”
You should just pack up and go home if you’re going to call Fediverse conservative. It’s the furthest thing from it.
Lemmy.world is literally where all the fucking enlightened centrists hang out. This is a lemmy.world thread. It is well known as the fucking ex-redditor instance. The rest of the Fediverse, by comparison, is deeply leftist, yeah.
Calling this place full of conservatives is one of the most laughably stupid things I’ve read all week. One of my biggest issues with Lemmy is how I rarely see differing viewpoints, since it’s mostly liberals here. The biggest differences in opinions is how liberal are the viewpoints. Hell, the person you’re arguing with basically agrees with you and is just saying there is nuance and context to looking at history.
😦
You know how we can’t fix the system today because no one agrees?
Yeah… they had the same problem then. That’s why the system sucks. Learn some history ffs.
Are you vegan? Because with the lab grown meat tech we have now, future generations are going to say shit like “HE ONLY MASS MURDERED ONE TYPE OF ANIMAL BECAUSE HE LIKED THE TASTE”
Can we stop pretending the world in the past had the same knowledge, ethics, and standards as we do now? Everyone is a product of their time, even us, and if we are successful in making the world a better place, future generations are going to judge the fuck out of us for things we think are normal right now, that are atrocious in the future, the way people now judge past historical figures
His slave, Sally, also almost freed herself in France and he convinced her not to (I think she was 16 or 17 by then?). The relationship couldnt have been consensual not only because she (& her whole family) was literally owned by him, but also because she was significantly younger/a minor. He kept his own children with her enslaved during his life. That he did this for political reasons isn’t a good or acceptable look. Being a slave isn’t a chill situation. Back then, we knew people killed themselves rather than be a slave. People knew then how harmful it was. Can’t believe you’re defending that relationship at any level.
I mean, it’s not defendable on any level, except that the prevailing notion of the time was that black people were inferior to whites. Obviously that doesn’t make it right, and by today’s standards Thomas Jefferson is a monster.
I’m not trying to defend Jefferson as being a good person, but expound upon the (what I consider) false assertion that Jefferson had no issue with slavery whatsoever (from his private letters, he held views against slavery) and that he fucked a bunch of his slaves. I agree with the point of the individual above that the US was built by white men for white men. But, as I said earlier, if you’re going to invoke history in your argument, it’s best to do it with some level of accuracy.
Since I recently read that John B Bole’s biography on Jefferson, I figured I’d chime in. The biography tries hard to put Jefferson in his time and place, establishes him as somewhat of a renaissance man (which, again, shouldn’t be praised much due to his privilege and use of slave labor on his projects), and also highlights out his hypocrisy and disappointing refusal to support anti-slavery movement publicly.
You should double check usernames. I never stated those things.
I have been to Monticello. I know quite a bit about Jefferson myself. It would also behoove you to think about whether what you read contained any propaganda or attempts to sanitizes this country’s history by making Jefferson appear better.
Back in even Columbus’s times, there were people who staunchly disagreed with slavery. Which also existed for natives, including the Taino. Antonio de Montesinos and Bartolomé de las Casas (both wrote extensively about how bad slavery was) were alive 200 years before Jefferson and the latter was extremely well known especially in the academic circles Jefferson was in.
For perspective, 200 years ago would be when Mexico signed their constitution. 200 years is a long time ago in terms of collective consciousness. He knew it was wrong, he just benefitted from it so he was fine with it. Which is like, the entire basis for morals and ethics.
I didn’t say you stated them. The person above did – the person I originally responded to. When I say “If you’re going to invoke history…” I mean, “If a person is going to invoke history.” Maybe I should have been clearer there.
I personally don’t believe Boles sanitized Jefferson’s biography. Again, I think he did a good job of outlining his life without letting him off the hook. It’s cool you’ve been to Monticello, and that you know about Jefferson. But if a person is looking for a fair depiction of Jefferson, is that really the place to go? I mean, certainly slaves were the ones who built up that place. I’ve never been, so I can’t say for sure that they (the curators) don’t condemn Jefferson in the way that you’d like, so doesn’t that point kind of undermine your argument? Hey, I’ve never been, so I don’t know. I’d guess Monticello is just as likely or more to have sanitized Jefferson’s life than Boles’ book.
And sure, there were people that opposed slavery centuries before Jefferson. But I’d wager to guess they were in the minority (ie, not the prevailing notion) considering there was an entire industry revolving around the slave trade during Jefferson’s time, consisting of more than just two individuals.
Edit: Sorry, this doesnt really cover your entire comment because of your edits, but yeah I think the general jist is that we disagree about the level of Jefferson’s “alrightness” with slavery. I mean, yeah he’s totally a hypocrite, and you could argue it makes him worse that he acknowledge slavery was wrong, but still perpetuated it. I’m hesitant to do that, because of the time and place that he lived.
I’d very very VERY softly compare it to the fact that today, we know Nike has bad labor practices. Am I going to condemn everyone I know who wears a Nike product? Probably not.
Where we disagree is the “because of the time and place he lived, it’s okay he had slaves.” Also having separate private/public opinions makes him a coward, not a radical.
With your Nike analogy - 1) it’s no where near the level of evil of slavery 2) I do condemn people who own shitty companies, eg blackrock 3) plenty of people during that time wore cotton and other products made with slave labor, and many today still do so. I’m not condemning the consumer. I’m condemning the owner, who had extreme power politically to end slavery. I’m condemning Jefferson, a coward rapist.
I mean, I never said it was okay he had slaves. It’s obviously monstrous. And yes, it was cowardly not to be public with his private opinions on the matter. My whole point is Jefferson was not completely okay with slavery, although evidently he was okay enough to own slaves (depending on your viewpoint, that make your opinion of him either better or worse), and that he didn’t fuck a bunch of his slaves.
Edit: And i suppose that contradicts my Nike comparison (hence why I emphasized “softly” there). Still, I’d say Jefferson was a product of his time and place, for the worse.
Edit2: actually no, it doesn’t really. My point was that a person can be uncomfortable with a thing (Nike’s labor practices) and still perpetuate it because of the just vast vast acceptance during the time
When you say “he was a product of his time and place,” you are saying it’s okay he had slaves because of the time/place he was in. FYI. Maybe you’re genuinely unaware that’s a dog whistle for excusing racism?
I’m unaware of anything significant Nike has done controversy-wise. So I will use Johnson&Johnson as an example instead, and their practice of having asbestos in their baby powder. If you are the owner of J&J, and you knowingly sold a product to babies with asbestos in it, but privately you think that’s a bad thing to do, but publicly you did it because all the other businesses sell shitty products - should you not be jailed? If you are in charge of something, does that not indicate MORE responsibility?
Your analogy sucks because you are ignoring the power Jefferson had.
Jefferson was a founding father. Of our laws. He wasn’t some no name consumer or worker. He was the equivalent (in terms of power) of a business owner. He is 100% responsible for his actions which affected millions.
I didn’t think about it as a dog whistle, but I’m sure it is. That is me being ignorant. I’m not trying to use it in that fashion. It’s not right he owned slaves. Once again, my main point is that he was not completely okay with slavery, as the original person I responded to was asserting.
You’re getting into his role in drafting laws, which I havent commented on because I simply don’t know, off the top of my head, what is attributed to him besides much of the original Constitution. I can only guess in regards to that, and I would guess that, being a white man, he considered and heavily favored the interests of other white men in the drafting of laws, and is responsible for much of the inequity we still see today.
By the way, Nike has been accused of utilizing forced labor in the past.