A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.
Two issues. The first is that they aren’t going to get pre-1967 borders. The larger more important point though is that Hamas just admitted they aren’t a legitimate government power and are actually terrorists instead. Own goal.
Terrorism is a verb.
Terrorists are people that commit terrorism.
Official count is now 42,000 dead Palestinians, but that is because the ability to count the dead no longer exists. The number is probably closer to 100,000
Israeli doctors have come forward to detail how amputations are regular for Palestinian prisoners who have been zip tied for months now.
Any definition of terrorism that includes Hamas, also includes the Israeli government.
Edit: recognizing your username, now is when you’ll call me antisemitic.
Based on what exactly?
Based on time under starvation conditions, the mass graves the IDF seems constitutionally incapable of not leaving behind, and counts of missing family members.
It is interesting that Lemmy is so small that I can recognize the usernames of genocide defenders so easily.
Tell me: is there any line crossed, any action taken by the IDF that you wouldn’t automatically defend?
Do you think it is right that Palestinians prisoners should be zip tied long enough that their limbs die and need too be cut off?
Can you share your methodology of calculating this number? You are not basing this on anything but your gut-feeling. Given how most of your comments consist of blindly parroting propaganda instead of even trying to form any in-depth understanding of this topic, that’s not surprising. Hell, you once attacked me for trying to bring nuance into this debate, at which point I was done with you for that day, because could there be anything more intellectually bankrupt?
Sure thing. If orders to deliberately exterminating Palestinians came to light, that would certainly be it. Those should exist if the goal of the IDF, as frequently claimed by people like you who make up fantasy numbers to then feel outraged about, was genocide. Of course, this clashes with various efforts of the same IDF to prevent Palestinian civilians from being harmed, which is kind of odd, don’t you think?
So either they are using e.g. roof knocking and a whole range of other warning measures just for PR-purposes (even though it significantly hurts their military efforts and their PR - Hamas can escape and the moment any building is being roof-knocked, dozens of cameras are immediately on it in order to film it, with lots of people feeling perfectly safe, trusting that this building and only this building will be hit; strange that) or the truth isn’t as simple as you are so desperately trying to make it be. You haven’t exactly been writing particularly well thought out comments on this topic at any point. Not that this limits your enthusiasm for your self-righteous preaching. Dunning, meet Kruger.
No, but good job trying distracting from your fantasy numbers. This might constitute criminal neglect. Those responsible should be punished and measures should be undertaken to prevent this from occurring. While internal review processes are far from perfect at the IDF, they do at least exist and are being applied. Two senior officers responsible for ordering the recent air strikes on aid workers were sacked, for example. The same could happen here as well.
GAZA STRIP: Famine is imminent as 1.1 million people, half of Gaza, experience catastrophic food insecurity - Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC)
Would you mind providing the source of this visualization so that I can read further into this? Thanks!
Found it
Merci.
Yeah that’s it. It’s a screenshot of the snapshot PDF they provide. Thanks TokenBoomer
I get that this is the other side of the conflict, but this is a whataboutism. All of that which you wrote can be true without invalidating what the previous person wrote.
When one side is committing a genocide and intentionally killing children then maybe, just maybe, it’s important to call that out.
What the OP did was try to justify an ongoing genocide by calling the other side terrorists.
That is what you’re defending by calling responses to that as whataboutism. Good job.
One side? Both sides are doing this. The details are different, but both sides are being evil here.
Hamas did some war crimes by taking civilians as hostages, which is bad, and I condemn them. But they aren’t perpetrating a genocide like Israel is. It’s two very different scales of evil here, and it’s important to point that out.
I don’t believe that is what their comment was implying at all. Again, both things can be true. Hamas can be terrorists and Israel can be guilty of exceptionally disproportionate violence fueling an agenda of unforgivable genocide.
Reality doesn’t exist in black and white.
You’re at the very least anti-partsofspeech.
You just got downvoted for correctly realizing that terrorism is literally a noun. Strange times.
My comment was terrorismed.
I didn’t downvote you, but I didn’t understand your comment are all. But, I probably couldn’t diagram a sentence anymore.
But, at the risk of being stupid here, wouldn’t terrorist be the noun and terrorism the verb?
Terrorist is someone who uses violence against a civilian population to enact political change, and terrorism is the act of using violence against a civilian population to enact change?
Thanks for asking. I respect that.
Terrorism is a noun. It is the use or act of political violence to create fear in a populace. It’s a little tricky because those sound like doing something, which would be a verb. But we’re describing the thing those people are doing.
Terrorists do acts of terrorism. People do things. What do they do? They terrorize. They terrorized. They will terrorize. She terrorizes. That’s the verb.
Terroristic would be the adjective.
Huh, okay, I think I see where you are coming from.
The only issue I have with trouble with understanding is that I don’t think terrorism and terrorize can be considered the same word.
If I’m a terrorist, I do a terrorism, I don’t terrorize.
Similarly, I terrorize my cats when the get poop on a paw with water, but I don’t commit a terroristic act against them when I wash their feet
Of course, I think most of that comes from creaturely a poorly defined word with an amorphous meaning that is based off of, but isn’t, a similar word.
Terror may be a root word for terrorism, but I fell like the definition has changed enough that the conjugation is different
I honestly don’t understand how people who think this is easy can think math is hard.
Than you got your previous response, too. I did find out useful.
Edit: to be clear, I am fully aware I have no idea what I’m talking about here, language wise, so the above ‘I think I can see where you were coming from’ was meant more as a ‘I think I understand’
It’s fair to say “terrorize” isn’t a verb that fits well. But then we’re left with “doing” being the verb in “doing terrorism.” And “terrorism” in that context is a thing - a noun.
Most “isms” are nouns. Mormonism, romanticism, communism, terrorism. Romanticists romanticize and are different than romantics who romance. Communists don’t really commune. There’s really no Mormonizing.
What’s the difference between terrorists and the resistance to an occupation?
I suspect you are not asking in good faith, but I’m answering anyway: Methods and goals. Hamas methods are clear: Legitimate resistance doesn’t deliberately and as a core policy murder, abduct and rape civilians. Hamas are no different from IS in this regard, which nobody calls resistance or freedom fighters.
Goals: Hamas actual and openly stated goal is the creation of a global Islamic caliphate and the murder and/or enslavement of all “nonbelievers”, not the liberation of the Palestinian people.
How many Palestinian prisoners do the IDF hold from the west bank?
How are they taken?
What level of evidence is required for them to be ‘arrested’?
Do they face the same legal processes as the Israeli ‘settlers’ when arrested?
What is the difference between the words ‘hostage’ and ‘prisoner’ to you?
How many Palestinian prisoners, including children, are reported raped each year in prison?
I’m all for the establishment of a free Palestinian state, but Hamas has to go.
Preferably through police action rather than the genocide that is a military intervention by Israel.
Anyway, the Israeli government is in the wrong on all the counts you raised, but Hamas still needs to go. They’ve been fully co-opted by all sorts of outside groups, and their rule in Gaza before October 7th was one of fear and oppression. They are no one’s saviors, they’re just the meanest bastards in the prison, lashing out at the guards while abusing the other prisoners.
The actual path to peace is a multinational police and peacekeeping force to come in and take over from the IDF, keeping the IDF out of it completely, and then opening up Gaza and the West Bank to the rest of the world. Possibly even ejecting the settlers from the West Bank and giving the land back.
But a large part of this would be arresting Hamas leadership.
And don’t think I’d let the IDF and Israeli government off scot-free for their part in all this. I’m sure there’s plenty of room in the local prisons for all the bastards in this mess.
The end goal might be a single, secular state, where all people are guaranteed full rights and protections by the government.
Well that’s a lie.
This seems to directly contradict the claims of the actual Hamas statements we are looking at right now.
Interesting that you can pick and choose which Hamas leader statements to believe in forming this narrative. Also, it is a little ironic that you claim others are engaging in bad faith while you manipulate which statements are valid from the same source.
The distinction comes from the ends they seek and the means they go about achieving those ends.
-prayer of Sheik Ahmad Bahr
I could easily get behind a platform that acknowledges that 7 million Jews now live in Israel and forcing them out (or even worse, killing them) would be a humanitarian catastrophe, but instead Hamas’ position is just as unyielding and genocidal as what Bibi’s admin has been waging upon the people of Gaza and the West Bank. They’re only now talking about laying down their arms because it benefits their attempts to paint themselves as the reasonable party in this conflict which I find to be a farce. More conflict and death benefits both Likud and Hamas.
A political organisation can have an armed wing but whatever.
Israel is a terrorist state
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