Of course there is a reason behind it, there is a reason behind everything. We might not know what it is, it might be really complicated, but it is there we just have to find it.
Believing in a cause and effect view of the universe is not the same as a value judgement. If science finds out what makes X happen it says nothing about the value of X.
I really don’t see the issue here. The monotheistic people who hate trans people are always going to hate trans people and not give a shit what the science says.
I think there is one concern that cant be argued against: if a genetic basis were found, that opens the way to parents selecting against those genes in their unborn children. Like… imagine parents or the government deciding that theyd very much like to eradicate LGBT people before theyre born and having the capability to make it happen.
Not sure I really want people like that being parents. If you view children as a status symbol and anything your “friends” view as an imperfection is unacceptable to you then what kinda parent are you going to be?
But to be fair my narcissist mother would sometimes not totally suck.
I guess it will be a bit annoying that there will be slightly less LGBT people tens of millions of years from now compared to today. I will set an alert if you want.
You are talking about an insanely small effect that requires a precise sequence of events
Company makes a pernatal LGBT test
The product actually works, which holy shit no it won’t. It is way more complicated than screening for say Down syndrome.
It is widely accepted as working
The average human on earth makes a few dollars a day and yet they have the money to pay for this and do reproductive counseling and decide to abort on this
Somehow someway all 8 billion people have this removed from them and it is maintained for tens of millions of years to get enough distance between those future humans and us to prevent random mutations from reverting it. Hell chickens are still born with teeth in rare occasions. That is a 80 million year reversion.
So yeah not worried. If you need something to worry about you can read up on climate change.
There will be exactly the same amount of queer people. They just will have been subjected to even more gatekeeping and conversion therapy because it was believed that by genetically altering them they would not be queer. Which isn’t true, being queer is not a product of genetics.
But transgender isn’t an outcome, you’re still not understanding. Transgender people are not fundamentally different from any other group of people. We just are transgender. Some of us don’t even have dysphoria or seek out medical transition. The cause is entirely relativistic and unique to each transgender person.
Transgender isn’t a property of a person it is a description of their relationship with the gender society assigned them.
The cause is entirely relativistic and unique to each transgender person.
Cool. Thank you for confirming that there is a cause. As you might have noted I already said the cause can be complicated. See an object on the floor. There might have been a million ways it could have gotten there, there still was a single way it got there for a given object. A --> B.
Transgender isn’t a property of a person it is a description of their relationship with the gender society assigned them.
Doesn’t change what I said even slightly. Something only has a particular length due to it’s relationship with the standard unit of length. Got a 3 meters long thing? It is related by multiplication and “3” with the meter. Philosophy got this totally ass backwards when it tried to view relationships as distinct from properties. As if there could somehow be movement without matter. And breaks emergence.
Besides which even if being LGBT was completely relational instead of intrinsic it wouldn’t mean much. The parent child relationship is relational and it could be studied just fine.
Trans people are not a phenomenon examinable in the same way as the laws of physics or observations about the natural world.
Gender is socially constructed. It’s a thing humans came up with. That doesn’t mean that it’s not real, but it does mean that how we examine it is entirely independent of biology. I don’t know why I am transgender. It’s perfectly possible as a child I just decided I wanted to be a girl and here we are. Does it matter whatsoever? Does it change literally anything? What if it’s not true, what if I just decided one day as an adult? Just woke up and thought hey I’d like to transition because that sounds fun and I want to. Am I still transgender? What about agender people, or people who withdraw from gender entirely and refuse to participate in it? Are they the way they are for a reason?
Why do you like the color blue? Why do you hate the taste of certain foods and love others? Why is your favorite book your favorite book? Is there a scientific reason for those things? Can we scientifically examine why your favorite book is your favorite book and then create a theory that whatever we came up with causes people to have that book as a favorite book? Gender is an abstract concept not routed in anything biological. It appropriates biology to justify its own existence. But it is not biology.
Being LGBT has no cause. We come up with our own personal explanations for it. I personally do not and never will. I dont give a shit and am aware that any explanation I come up with is ridiculous and unfounded because being trans isn’t anything specific. This view that transness is some kind of intrinsic property is not true and is not founded in any observable evidence.
You may want to look into trans people some time. Read some shit on google. You don’t seem to really get it, and I’m adverse to having someone repeatedly tell me I’m wrong about something I have personal experience with.
Your entire comment is special pleading. You, like the free willists and theists and spirituality types, want a supernatural explanation for something while conceding that everything else doesn’t need one. You plead for a special exception.
Sorry, doesn’t work that way. All we are is matter and energy. No God, no Spirit, no ghosts, no kabbalah, no astrology, no supernatural, no Jesus loves the little children. Just the universe as it presents itself to be.
Don’t waste time on anyone who tells you not to think, not to research, not to learn, and to accept them on faith. Which is exactly what you are doing right now.
Idk why the fuck youre talking about religion. Never mentioned anything supernatural whatsoever. It’s amazing to me how you are so blown away by the concept of gender, that you think we must be describing something supernatural. I am not religious, never thought that would have to be said in this conversation lmao.
Whats your fav book? Scientifically explain to me why that book has the property “afraid_of_zombies” favorite book. Gender has a much larger impact on our lives than that property, but it is still an abstract property detached from biology in any way.
You used the same arguments as the religious. They demand that science can’t study their stuff and you do the same, they claim irreducible complexity and you do the same, they use the argument from ignorance and so do you.
Nice that you haven’t actually responded in any material way to anything I’ve said, and have instead resorted to stomping your feet and having a tantrum claiming that I’m making supernatural arguments without even bothering to explain how I’m doing that.
You need to research these things before getting yourself into pointless arguments with people who are more informed than you about them. I transitioned nearly a decade ago. I have been a part of trans discourse essentially from the very beginning. I am also a student in psychology. Human cognition does not work the way you seem to think it does.
Of course there is a reason behind it, there is a reason behind everything. We might not know what it is, it might be really complicated, but it is there we just have to find it.
Believing in a cause and effect view of the universe is not the same as a value judgement. If science finds out what makes X happen it says nothing about the value of X.
I really don’t see the issue here. The monotheistic people who hate trans people are always going to hate trans people and not give a shit what the science says.
I think there is one concern that cant be argued against: if a genetic basis were found, that opens the way to parents selecting against those genes in their unborn children. Like… imagine parents or the government deciding that theyd very much like to eradicate LGBT people before theyre born and having the capability to make it happen.
Not sure I really want people like that being parents. If you view children as a status symbol and anything your “friends” view as an imperfection is unacceptable to you then what kinda parent are you going to be?
But to be fair my narcissist mother would sometimes not totally suck.
Thing is… they are going to be parents. They just wont be parents to someone that is LGBT. Its eugenics.
I guess it will be a bit annoying that there will be slightly less LGBT people tens of millions of years from now compared to today. I will set an alert if you want.
You are talking about an insanely small effect that requires a precise sequence of events
Company makes a pernatal LGBT test
The product actually works, which holy shit no it won’t. It is way more complicated than screening for say Down syndrome.
It is widely accepted as working
The average human on earth makes a few dollars a day and yet they have the money to pay for this and do reproductive counseling and decide to abort on this
Somehow someway all 8 billion people have this removed from them and it is maintained for tens of millions of years to get enough distance between those future humans and us to prevent random mutations from reverting it. Hell chickens are still born with teeth in rare occasions. That is a 80 million year reversion.
So yeah not worried. If you need something to worry about you can read up on climate change.
There will be exactly the same amount of queer people. They just will have been subjected to even more gatekeeping and conversion therapy because it was believed that by genetically altering them they would not be queer. Which isn’t true, being queer is not a product of genetics.
Citation needed that people are going to “genetic altering” whatever that is supposed to mean.
Aborting babies that have the gene? Or otherwise altering the genetics of embryos prior to development? You can use inference you know.
But transgender isn’t an outcome, you’re still not understanding. Transgender people are not fundamentally different from any other group of people. We just are transgender. Some of us don’t even have dysphoria or seek out medical transition. The cause is entirely relativistic and unique to each transgender person.
Transgender isn’t a property of a person it is a description of their relationship with the gender society assigned them.
Cool. Thank you for confirming that there is a cause. As you might have noted I already said the cause can be complicated. See an object on the floor. There might have been a million ways it could have gotten there, there still was a single way it got there for a given object. A --> B.
Doesn’t change what I said even slightly. Something only has a particular length due to it’s relationship with the standard unit of length. Got a 3 meters long thing? It is related by multiplication and “3” with the meter. Philosophy got this totally ass backwards when it tried to view relationships as distinct from properties. As if there could somehow be movement without matter. And breaks emergence.
Besides which even if being LGBT was completely relational instead of intrinsic it wouldn’t mean much. The parent child relationship is relational and it could be studied just fine.
Trans people are not a phenomenon examinable in the same way as the laws of physics or observations about the natural world.
Gender is socially constructed. It’s a thing humans came up with. That doesn’t mean that it’s not real, but it does mean that how we examine it is entirely independent of biology. I don’t know why I am transgender. It’s perfectly possible as a child I just decided I wanted to be a girl and here we are. Does it matter whatsoever? Does it change literally anything? What if it’s not true, what if I just decided one day as an adult? Just woke up and thought hey I’d like to transition because that sounds fun and I want to. Am I still transgender? What about agender people, or people who withdraw from gender entirely and refuse to participate in it? Are they the way they are for a reason?
Why do you like the color blue? Why do you hate the taste of certain foods and love others? Why is your favorite book your favorite book? Is there a scientific reason for those things? Can we scientifically examine why your favorite book is your favorite book and then create a theory that whatever we came up with causes people to have that book as a favorite book? Gender is an abstract concept not routed in anything biological. It appropriates biology to justify its own existence. But it is not biology.
Being LGBT has no cause. We come up with our own personal explanations for it. I personally do not and never will. I dont give a shit and am aware that any explanation I come up with is ridiculous and unfounded because being trans isn’t anything specific. This view that transness is some kind of intrinsic property is not true and is not founded in any observable evidence.
You may want to look into trans people some time. Read some shit on google. You don’t seem to really get it, and I’m adverse to having someone repeatedly tell me I’m wrong about something I have personal experience with.
Your entire comment is special pleading. You, like the free willists and theists and spirituality types, want a supernatural explanation for something while conceding that everything else doesn’t need one. You plead for a special exception.
Sorry, doesn’t work that way. All we are is matter and energy. No God, no Spirit, no ghosts, no kabbalah, no astrology, no supernatural, no Jesus loves the little children. Just the universe as it presents itself to be.
Don’t waste time on anyone who tells you not to think, not to research, not to learn, and to accept them on faith. Which is exactly what you are doing right now.
Idk why the fuck youre talking about religion. Never mentioned anything supernatural whatsoever. It’s amazing to me how you are so blown away by the concept of gender, that you think we must be describing something supernatural. I am not religious, never thought that would have to be said in this conversation lmao.
Whats your fav book? Scientifically explain to me why that book has the property “afraid_of_zombies” favorite book. Gender has a much larger impact on our lives than that property, but it is still an abstract property detached from biology in any way.
You used the same arguments as the religious. They demand that science can’t study their stuff and you do the same, they claim irreducible complexity and you do the same, they use the argument from ignorance and so do you.
You are a theist without a bible
Nice that you haven’t actually responded in any material way to anything I’ve said, and have instead resorted to stomping your feet and having a tantrum claiming that I’m making supernatural arguments without even bothering to explain how I’m doing that.
You need to research these things before getting yourself into pointless arguments with people who are more informed than you about them. I transitioned nearly a decade ago. I have been a part of trans discourse essentially from the very beginning. I am also a student in psychology. Human cognition does not work the way you seem to think it does.