With a electoral system like Ranked Choice voting, people would feel safe to vote for whomsoever they wish, as their vote would still be counted even if their preference didn’t win.
Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Republicans LOVE first past the post voting. Just sbsolutely adore it. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans want?
More political parties means a higher percentage of the population is represented by their choices in the voting booth. More people involved in the electoral process, more people engaged.
Its a win win win all around for not just the people, but also for the democratic party. More people voting means more democratic votes. The numbers dont lie. So what’s the hold up blue states?
Some day we will be able to vote for who best represents our interests. We won’t need to grovel on our knees, begging for representationin government. We won’t need to wait for the Republican party to stop existing.
We can do it right now. We don’t have to get over a damn thing. If anyone needs to get over themselves, it would be the democrats who assume they are the only way forward.
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
Please go away, get out of public life and stop “helping.”
Being a dick to people is not going to get them to vote your way. Same with the ‘deplorables’ comment. I agreed with her on it, but it was a stupid thing to say in an election.
I think the deplorables comment would have been fine if they did try to cowardly walk it back immediately after in the typical miquetoast, ‘cater to everyone’ Democratic fashion.
“Cater to everyone but the left”
It wouldn’t have. That’s when I knew we were screwed.
Maybe they wouldn’t have thought they had to if they could have counted on the left for any of the energy coming up with reasons why them not voting is everyone else’s fault.
The white left being shocked and outraged that they in fact do not get to call themselves the base when they have to be dragged kicking and screaming by their hair just to get into a poll booth, never mind to not be a fucking moron and vote green or some shit, never ceases to amaze me.
The Tea Party are the Republican base because they don’t have to be convinced to show up for the general you entitled fucking morons.
Oh right, when you’re running in a popularity contest and lose, it’s the fault of the people voting not your own. The fact that she couldn’t even be more appealing than a known conman, failed businessman, and reality TV host with zero political experience really says a lot.
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Rather than calling us names how about making material compromises with us?
Explain something to me. How can you simultaneously believe we don’t vote but care that we don’t vote? Biden won the 2020 general election so if we didn’t vote for him then who cares if we won’t vote for him in 2024?
So which is it?
Yes, it’s like she took notes from her husband, but isn’t Smooth Willy enough to pull it off. I think it’s because deep down, she is just a bitch.
South Park said it best: “my wife is a crazy bitch.”
I’m still convinced that only person insufferable enough to lose to Donald fucking Trump in 2016 was Hillary Clinton.
You can hate it all you want but in some level it’s a popularity contest and she is utterly utterly unlikeable.
Her smarmy q&a with those millennials was a fucking PR nightmare.
Lewis Black said her problem was that she never went away. I’d say that’s pretty spot on. Shitheads wants attention, wants to be important. Maybe if she’d given the public a break and then came back for a second act it would have been different for her. But we’re still in act one and it never ends.
Hilary propped up Trump. Never forget that. The political turmoil we are currently in is directly because or her. Fuck her and the DNC
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428/
So to take Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up. Shortly after her kickoff, top aides organized a strategy call, whose agenda included a memo to the Democratic National Committee: “This memo is intended to outline the strategy and goals a potential Hillary Clinton presidential campaign would have regarding the 2016 Republican presidential field,” it read.
“The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” read the memo.
“Pied Piper candidates include, but aren’t limited to:
• Ted Cruz
• Donald Trump
• Ben Carson
We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to [take] them seriously."
While the campaign also kept a close eye on Rubio, monitoring his announcement speech and tightly designing the tweeted responses to his moves, Clinton’s team in Brooklyn was delightedly puzzled by Trump’s shift into the pole position that July after attacking John McCain by declaring, “I like people who weren’t captured.”
Eleven days after those comments about McCain, Clinton aides sought to push the plan even further: An agenda item for top aides’ message planning meeting read, “How do we prevent Bush from bettering himself/how do we maximize Trump and others?"
I remember something like this happening in Germany…some people like Von schleicher and Von Papen thinking if they propped up Hitler it would help the conservative old Gaurd consolidate power…not exactly the same but it looks the same and smells like shit to me
I remember something similar, the far left in Germany stabbing the Social Democrats in the back thinking Hitler coming to power would teach those establishment politicians a lesson and surely they’d get to bulldoze their way to lead next time!
“First Hitler, then Our Turn.”
She got her second choice in 2016, like all centrists did.
Since when was she a centrist? Her congressional voting and action history put her way left of the party, way farther than Obama, and second only to Bernie Sanders.
Lie to someone else. Obama won the 2008 primaries because his healthcare plan was to the left of Clinton’s.
Centrists in congress made sure to limit Obama’s plan to what Clinton ran on.
She’s nothing but a centrist.
Wait, wait, wait, are we talking about the healthcare plan that was fundamentally based on the individual mandate from the Heritage Foundation?
Also, are you referring to this plan from Hillary?
Yes and yes. Obama ran on a public option and no individual mandate. Clinton ran on no public option and an individual mandate. The Heritage Foundation plan was still to the left of what Clinton ran on.
We got what Clinton wanted, but the voters wanted what Obama was selling. Even though it turned out to be a bill of goods.
I remember the 08 campaign. Her cronies also made a huge stink about flag pins, started the “Obama isn’t a citizen” rumors that Trump would run with later, and once she had lost the nomination because the party didn’t successfully quash her opposition for her, her supporters started a PAC to get McCain/Palin elected because Clinton’s cult would rather have Palin as VP than have a black man be president.
Clinton’s VP pick of Tim Kaine in 2016 was an additional “fuck you” to everyone to her left. I get that you’re trying to pretend that Clinton is someone that the left should be happy with, but Clinton is centrist at best. She’s a corporate owned neoliberal from the “triangulate between the meekest Democrat and the vilest republican” Third Way James Carville wing of the party.
Yes, she is absolutely a centrist.
Hillary Clinton is an avid follower of the Iron Law of Institutions
Blink 2 times if you are being held against your will
Apologies for actually knowing the history of the subject. I’ve had these debates with misinformed people on subject regarding Clinton, Biden, and so many others going back years. For some reason, far left people actively fall for made up right wing BS claims about Democrats.
Liberals translate ‘misinformed’ to mean anything I don’t like
She openly opposed gay marriage as a NYS senator. Her career has been over long before 2016.
Oh, fun, we’re going back to the usual BS that tried to be thrown at her, despite her having the longest history of supporting the LGBT community out of anyone involved. I also remember leftists getting super pissed off when so many of the LGBT community supported her (though not the young ones who didn’t live through the period) because of her long history of supporting the community and being there, both personally and with her political position.
With her being likely the first Congressperson to force equal federal compensation and benefits for same sex couples that worked in her office or, later as SoS, who were in her department. Even if those couples weren’t married in the time period before that became legal.
Basic human rights are not subject to pragmatism. She wound up where she needed to be.
I don’t think it’s fair to put Trump all on her. If we were to ask anyone 10 years ago if someone like Trump could win the presidency we all would have laughed. No surprise they tried to prop up an opposing candidate they thought was bad.
I don’t think it’s fair to put Trump all on her
Why not? Her supporters blame Trump on anyone who ever thought about voting for Sanders in the primaries, regardless of who they voted for in the general, and have for nearly 8 years now.
Sanders campaigned for her in states she ignored because they were full of worthless flyover hayseeds who were beneath her. Her campaign didn’t seem to understand how the electoral college functions.
Her campaign WANTED to go up against Trump because they were unforgivably stupid enough to think that Republicans would be less energized by a charismatic con man than by Jeb Bush, Republicans’ presumptive frontrunner that no one wanted.
Clinton earned her loss multiple times over.
The Simpsons warned her, and she did it anyways.
Yeah, that was exactly the feeling at the time. No one saw Trump coming.
I can only assume people making claims otherwise now are kids who have no understanding of the history involved.
I saw Trump coming. He did something no one else was doing at the time: acknowledge just how miserable life was for many Americans at the time. Other politicians have been content to pretend everything is great save for their pet policy projects, Trump said it’s all bad. In a post-COVID world this would be more effective save for his own history of failure and inaction, but people often have short memories and they will forget quickly if they get angry about something else.
Last thing anyone needs is the narcissist Hillary Clinton inserting herself where she doesn’t belong. I imagine voting enthusiasm will already be low because the choice between a failed conman and Weekend at Biden’s isn’t particularly enticing, so maybe Hillary can just fuck off for a bit and not make it worse.
Not just kids, white kids, nobody else needs to have it explained to them why throwing the election to punish the establishment does nothing to help anyone and in fact makes you not just a collaborator, but the most insidious and/or idiotic sort of one imaginable.
Their thinking is either, “I know how to defeat the fascists! Let the fascists win!” or much more likely underneath, “I know exactly where I stand on the hit list, I can wait it out for enough bodies to pile up so I can file my demands with the bodies as set dressing!”
The white left would see us all be made corpses before they ever tolerated the possibility that we might not choose to follow them without being convinced and compromised with.
I’ve read through several of your comments in this thread. Do you know any IRL leftists, or are you just assuming everyone is white from talking to people on lemmy?
Most of the leftists I know IRL aren’t white. And I’m sure some of them didn’t bother to vote for Hillary.
Literally everyone I know is either a leftist or comfortable in leftist spaces, and literally everyone I know thinks that the white “left” fuckasses who threw 2016 because counting votes instead of individual donors didn’t let them feel pandered to enough aren’t worth the air they breathe to spew their bullshit about what we made them do to us.
Dobbs is the white “left’s” child, they had the chance to abort, but they actively chose not to, and now they don’t get to abandon that child just because the fact that it wanders the neighborhood skinning small animals reflects bad on them.
Any real leftist with functioning brain cells either voted for Hillary or has owned up to the severe mistake that not doing that was, anyone else is just red-washing them being a fascist collaborator, and would live to see trial among the rest of the lot if the revolution they claim they want instead of voting ever actually came.
They don’t get to call themselves socialists while selling out the common laborer to republican governance, they don’t get to call themselves an ally while standing by as women are hung by the umbilical chord because republicans would rather let them die than allow the possibility that a woman can “pull a fast one on them,” they don’t get to call themselves anti-imperialists while making space for the president who handed Israel Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights getting back into office if it means they get to feel valid about using my people’s corpses as set dressing for the whole sickening display they want to paint for themselves as the saviors of us lowly ungratefuls who shall descend upon us with their divinely inspired marching orders that will surely brint about world peace and global communist revolution and surely won’t just get us all killed while they sigh and gaslight the survivors about how we just didn’t revolution hard enough for their brilliant plans to work.
I feel you. I just know a lot of black leftists that fall into that camp, so you constantly saying white leftists didn’t fit with my world view.
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Two things can be true at the same time.
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She is a target of mysgonstic flavored consisparcy theories.
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She truly is unlikeable with half measure policies while being woefully out of touch with the average person.
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She is / was 100x more qualified than Trump.
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American voters are idiots.
It’s easy to be more qualified than totally unqualified. She was the obvious choice, but her total lack of charisma to voters destroyed that.
The worst part is that more people voted for her, just not where it counts because she couldn’t be bothered to campaign there
Yeah, cause she’s an elitist piece of shit, which makes her unqualified to anyone with a fuckin brain.
Still more qualified than the woefully unqualified, elitist trash that is Trump. Lol
Sure, but that doesn’t negate the fact that Dem shills are dumb as fuck too, just not blatantly malicious like Republicans
- She should have run on a platform that was better than “What else are you going to do, vote for Trump?”
- She shouldn’t have pushed trump as the pied Piper candidate in the first place.
And yet, unelectable!
She’s from the Chicago suburbs, fuck that entitled bitch.
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As the one and only person to ever lose to Trump, ya might want to sit this one out.
Hillary has value as a lightning rod for right-wing hatred. All she has to do is show her face and the rednecks will lose their mind. She should be talking about things like Benghazi or emails - troll the trumpanzees with shit they won’t be able to resist, and keep em off the rest of the blue team’s back.
Her chiming in on pretty much any other topic just weighs it down with per perceived baggage.
OK Boomer.
I’m voting for Biden but I’m not obligated to be excited or happy about it or to not critique it for the DNC. It’s a choice between a lawful neutral (at best) milquetoast waffling imperial fuckhead and an outright chaotic evil dictatorial megalomaniac imperial fuckhead. One choice is clearly superior but that’s the choice that’s also dangling the more dangerous choice over me like a threat as the only reason to vote for them. That’s pretty fucking abusive, if you ask me.
Talking down to voters with stuff like “Why don’t you go run for something, then?” worked out so well for her before, right?
Well said. The two front runners are like creepy old lords from Game of Thrones or something. One is much worse, but neither is good.
The Clintons need to retire quietly, nobody wants their input.
One is much worse, but neither is good.
Given that one of them will be president after the election, it should be obvious that preventing the much worse option is in everyone’s best interest.
It’s like the fucking Trolley problem, but blaming the entire setup on the person next to the switch.
Who put that person there? Why are we shifting the blame on them? Stop the trolley, don’t act all smug pointing fingers screaming “noone normal would let the trolley go straight”.
South Park called it long ago and it still fits. It fits with Hillary and Trump back in 2016 and today. It’s a choice between a shit sandwich and a douche bag. They just missed the part where one is hell bent on destroying our democracy and then added a season with Mr Garrison as president.
Now we are repeating history and might put “Garrison” in charge again. I never liked history but I didn’t think we were this dumb it hasn’t even been a decade but that’s more to do with brain washing
Hillary Clinton is irrelevant, and should get over herself.
She should go hang out with her buddy Henry Kissinger, whatever he’s up to these days.
Rich old bat, nobody cares; she might not be first for the guillotine but she’s definitely in the queue.
What political side even are you? I assume some far left tankie idiocy.
And always makes things worse. Just shut up already.
She really just needs to get over herself and shut the fuck up. She lost to Trump. Why the fuck would anyone listen to her on how to beat him?
shut the fuck up forever hillary
We DEFINITELY don’t need her help with any elections.
Like “basket of deplorables,” she’s not wrong. She just shouldn’t be saying it because it can only really hurt things
Nah, she’s wrong. The only way to “get over ourselves” in this situation is to stop caring about the present and future of our country and world.
Right message, very much the wrong messenger. Like it or not, Hillary, a significant number of people in this country despise you. I don’t think that’s at all fair, but them’s the breaks. You’re not helping.
“Shut up, you’re voting for who we want you to vote for because we say so” is never the right message. Centrists will never think of another one.
That wasn’t really the message. The message is more: “Please stop with the hyperbole. You know that Donald Trump is the worst possible candidate imaginable.” Which is absolutely true.
Ok? Then Biden should be begging for votes, doing anything within his power to get progressive and leftist votes and telling moderates and liberals to get over themselves.
No? Oh so just more of the same finger wagging from the usual suspects convinced that one more lecture should do the trick.
I mean, I agree it would be great if Biden was a better candidate. I’d be a whole lot less worried about a second Trump presidency if that were the case. But he’s not a better candidate. He is who he is. And though he hasn’t earned your vote, you should give it to him anyway because it’s in your best interest to do so.
you should give it to him anyway because it’s in your best interest to do so.
No.
Focus your lectures on moderates and liberals for once in your goddamn life. I’m done being held to a different standard.
Ok, so what’s your solution, then? Actually - first, let’s make sure we’re on the same page about the basics: do you agree that Donald Trump would be fundamentally worse for America than Joe Biden? Second, do you agree that any candidate other than the winners of the Democratic and Republican primaries basically stands no chance of becoming president?
Again, ask moderates and liberals that question. And then ask them if Trump is such a danger why didn’t they fume at Biden for blocking the rail strike? Or raising the defense budget? Or forcing federal workers back to the office? Or going around Congress to ship weapons to Gaza? Why didn’t they do anything in support of progressives and leftists for the past three years?
Why is it the people who have gotten fucked over by Biden are being told to vote for him rather than telling Biden, moderate voters and liberal voters they cannot win elections on their own and thus they must make material compromises with the people they’re depending on?
You’re trying to squeeze blood from a stone here. I’m telling you I’m done propping up procorporate trash candidates for moderate and liberal voters. If they would rather lose to MAGA than make material compromises with leftists and progressives that’s on them.
If Biden really believes Trump is such a a danger then he should be on his knees begging for votes. Or is his ego worth more than democracy?
“No, what he really means is…” - the trumpists you sound like.
You ok, bud?
You know that Donald Trump is the worst possible candidate imaginable.
Yes, I know that. That’s why I changed my voter registration to Republican and voted for Nikki Haley in the primaries. I don’t particularly like her, but she’s better than the worst possible candidate imaginable. Trump could have been kicked to the curb but I guess the uncommitted protest vote against Biden was more important.
How apropos… Confidently telling everyone why Hilary is wrong while clearly not even reading the article. Classic.
Horrendous, insulting, out of touch phrasing from her as usual too. The democrats spending years propping her up and then stacking the deck in her favor in the primary are why we had Trump as president. She was the only person predicted to lose to him.
Obama could get away with telling potential voters to get over themselves. Clinton has none of the cachet that Obama or even Biden to a less extent has. She should be embarrassed to show her face in public at this point.
Ah, yes, entitlement, that’ll resonate with disaffected voters.
She’s saying what every lemmy Centrist has been saying, only with less condescension and she managed to say it without calling anyone a Russian.
I’m surprised she’s getting so much hate. Maybe she’s not being entitled enough and centrists perceive her as being to their left.
It’s not what she’s saying here that’s the problem, it’s that she fucked up her own campaign so badly by keeping her smug entitled head so firmly up her ass that we got Trump. Personally, I don’t want see her in the public eye or hear her opinions ever again, even the ones I agree with.
It’s not what she’s saying here that’s the problem, it’s that she fucked up her own campaign so badly by keeping her smug entitled head so firmly up her ass that we got Trump.
Her messaging here is consistent with her messaging during her failed campaign, and consistent with the party’s messaging since around 2015 or so.
Yes, I agree.
I’m surprised she’s getting so much hate.
It seems that for some of these haters, all she has to do to get hate is to exist.
Hillary was the only candidate unlikeable enough to lose to Trump. She should stick that in her pipe and smoke it.
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I’m sure this time yelling at the voters will work.
I didn’t give a shit that Clinton beat Sanders. I am however pissed that she then lost. The person most at fault for a candidate losing is the candidate.
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Without breaking a sweat. You greatly underestimate the hatred people have for Hilary “it’s my turn” Clinton.
We’ll never know. However, the media establishment absolutely didn’t want the two of them on a stage together.
Except the system is broken and voting doesn’t help. No matter how much you want it to. Your vote is irrelevant to the DNC because they will pick whatever candidate they want anyways. It’s on THEM that Trump and Bush won. Not wanting to interact with a system so blatantly corrupt does not make me a bad person, and fuck you for claiming such. Maybe if there were confidence in LITERALLY ANYONE in government, young people would see the point in doing anything. The Dems are only there to lose to the Republicans while raking in donations and saying, ‘we just need to try HARDER!’. When they just roll over at the first sign of resistance from the right.
I’m so tired of you idiots claiming that voting is going to stop fascism. Liberals will tolerate fascism. They will bitch and moan and then go to work at the death camp.
Fuck that. I’m gonna kill fascists instead.
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This is exactly the way I feel about all these people who choose inaction and agitate for others to abstain. You’re so fucking right and I’m sick of all these comments coddling this cowardly attitude of abstinence from real action. My partner is a political organizer, works in civil rights and climate action. He’s Latino and disabled. We’re both trans and queer. I volunteer and organize. The reality is most people won’t volunteer or donate to make change. The easiest thing most people can do to make real change is to vote.
Claiming voting doesn’t work, and asserting you’d rather not vote than vote for a middle of the road candidate versus the fascist… it’s a privileged take. It’s not allyship. It’s not about helping people or making a difference, it’s moral purity. They’d rather throw away lives than taint their soul with an impure decision. I don’t have the privilege to maintain my purity, and those that do should take a hard look at how they’re using that privilege.
It might make you feel icky icky to vote for the guy you dislike versus the man who wants to exterminate me. Get over it or be honest that you’d rather feel pure than take action.
Privileged lefties’ prioritization of moral purity over real action will be the death of us.
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Try not seating a neoliberal as the candidate then, maybe you can get some leftists to go vote. The fact that so many people were assaulting the “Bernie Bros” proved to me that people like you are not leftists, you’re just rainbow neolibs.
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Except study after study show that the US does not respond to the will of the people, they respond to the will of the copreration, Your vote does not matter because once in office your will does not matter, This has been born out in actual full studies.
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Except they have done genuine studies on this, and the will of the american people has no effect on laws passed in the states or the federal government. I wish I was making this up but I am not, I will not go so far as to say a vote means absolutly nothing in total terms, but in figuritive terms it is meaningless, and there are studies to prove this.
Second, You do not know anything about me or what I do or what I hold dear. That being said, I am higly unlikely to be lower or at the very least significatly lower on the kill list than any of them, I also do very much cair about them, I also refuse to give my vote at gun point to someone who has done none of what they promised other than “No change” to doners. A man who happily broke a labor strike, a man who is aiding with no qualms and bending over backwards to protect a genoicede. No they do not get my vote. Especialy when the "threat: on the other side has no material difrence.
I mean, intersting that you assume my dreams are to immulate a fictional charicter, they are not, and I can tell you I am well aware that the revolution 1 is not a “wet dream” that is just… disgusting eww… and 2 is not anywhere close, the amount of class contiousness needed is not anywhere near where it needs to be… there are also people like you who seem to think the idea of a revolution is cilly and psycopathic, and all you have to to is vote… dispite the studies showing that the vote does not matter at the best of times, and this is not that.
If you want to know who my Hero I would want to Imulate is that would be John Brown leading a Ritchous Revolution, or Castro, or Mao, or Lennin. but no I would not think about playing out some fictional charicter
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Hear hear!
Absolutely correct.
Except 1) votes need to be earned and 2) the DNC argued and won in court that election season that they did not have to provide a fair playing feild in the primary as a private organisation, they could even select their nomonee however they wanted too reguardless.
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Alternative headline: Hillary Clinton hasn’t learned her lesson that she is tone deaf and should stay the fuck out of politics.
