Blogspam that links to a ‘news’ website that just regurgitates this reddit thread. Somebody explain to me why is this upvoted so heavily.
Windows bad, updoots to the left
I mean the minute you see “Copilot bad, from windowscopilot[dot]news” should surely raise some flags
Coz noone reads that stuff besides the title.
This is the high quality journalism we want
powered with state-of-the-art AI
The real journalism is always in the comments. Or how did that go?
Windows bad, ai bad. Upvote. Thought isn’t a big consideration here.
I put Copilot on MY taskbar —Microsoft
Exactly. It’s Microsoft ffs. They don’t care what consumers want. The only time they do anything truly beneficial is when the EU makes them.
The only time they do anything truly beneficial is when the EU makes them.
Except when they make programming languages
I mean sure, c# is better than java, but c# also makes you dependant on MS and all their shenanigans. Java is free of such burdens. Oracle sure is a dependency, but you’re free pick another vendor or fork your own.
Of course they prioritise Windows and Azure, but still, .NET works on Linux well, and it’s licensed under MIT, so you’re allowed to fork too.
But on the other hand I won’t waste my time defending Microsoft here, because they have people for doing it.
They also created TypeScript which is a huge improvement over js imo. And with C# you can use Mono, so you really aren’t locked into MS automatically.
Plus, they made VS Code free. I hate MS but they do make solid tools for developers.
Really trying not to be that “use Linux” person, but it’s easy to underestimate the impact this has on user perception. It was communicated to me by these actions that this isn’t my computer. It kept pissing me off, so I went with something that respects me.
I think Microsoft is okay with that because their operating system isn’t a main profit center anymore. It’s cloud stuff.
The Win10 machine I got in 2020 will be my last Windows computer now that gaming on Linux is basically solved.
Can you tell me how gaming on Linux is solved? It’s the only reason I use windows still.
Start with protondb
In my case, many of my games are purchased through Steam, which automatically handles Linux compatibility for most games. The product page of the game lists the compatible operating systems as SteamOS, Linux, or SteamPlay. You can also set up proton directly for other games, which is a fork of Wine that has really good gaming support these days.
I wouldn’t call it a completely solved problem. It’s always possible to find games that just won’t work, but most of them do. Even most DRM works. If the DB covers the games you care about then you’re golden.
People have talked about proton and how it can play practically everything these days (I even got it working with games that don’t work with modern windows) but if you play multiplayer games with anti-cheat, here’s a useful site https://areweanticheatyet.com/
I’m pretty sure Windows is a key part of their “cloud stuff” strategy. You are right that consumers are not the direct focus of Windows, since they are not the direct paying audience, and that shows in the direction Windows is going, but getting consumers to use Windows is a big part of creating corporate buy in for Microsoft cloud services. Corporate environments will shun Microsoft cloud services if employees can’t use Windows, or Windows features run afoul of corporate policies (like blanket LLM bans).
Over the years, Microsoft has been quietly taking away control from the users.
There’s been a transition from normal settings that you can do whatever you want with, to “yes / remind me later” settings that Microsoft uses to badger you until you submit, to finally just no setting at all - just quiet compulsory data collection and surveillance; with various bits of mysterious software that you can’t uninstall or disable or halt - because you’re not the admin - Microsoft is.
It wasn’t always this way.
It’s not even good for non technical users. Microsoft takes admin responsibility, but then they manage it poorly by applying updates that haven’t been properly tested and using your system as the guinea pig.
I’ve seen this happen to family. Forced update comes in, breaks system.
How many times are we going to have to teach you this lesson, old man. Don’t fuck with the task bar.
Even the small things. When work upgraded to Win11 overnight and I logged into the Start being in the middle, I almost lost it. Yes, I could fix it, and a few other things, but I had a moment.
I understand it’s not for everyone but I jumped ship to Linux 10 years ago or so. The defining moment was me disabling Cortana only to have her reappear after an update.
At least with Linux when I’m fighting the OS it doesn’t feel like the OS developers are fighting back.
Same motivation here, but it took me until last year to make the switch. Pushing Office on me combined with all the good things I’ve been hearing about gaming on Linux was enough to push me over. I installed in dual boot, but I have never wanted to nor had the need to boot into my Windows install in at least three months.
I did the same thing about the same time as you. I did boot into Windows at one point and it updated, and it absolutely fucked my system. It removed or disabled the boot loader and I think it fucked up the partition table too IIRC. I then removed everything Windows and installed another distro I wanted to try and it’s been smooth sailing since, with no reason to regret removing Windows.
Edit: I was able to recover the partitions, but the Windows section of the bootloader I was never able to get working again after getting it to boot into my Linux install. That’s the moment I decided to just clear out that drive and switch distros.
This isn’t the first time I’ve heard a similar story. Windows is often not a good neighbor in multi boot configurations.
Ironically, Microsoft would later remove Cortana itself in an update.
I use Arch BTW
Funny you say that ah
For real though I use a down stream arch distro.
Installing arch manually is a good learning experience but I’ve got other things to do.
Switched to Fedora at the beginning of the year and couldn’t be happier.
They killed the vertical task bar with that update, which seems like such a pointless thing to disable.
I don’t mind the taskbar in the middle, it’s like Apple’s dock. What I really hate, is the news popup on the left… and I don’t even mind the floating Start menu, I’ve been using MadAppLauncher for like a decade or more.
Man. Work moved us to windows 11 and you couldn’t ungroup windows on the taskbar… We use RPG / as400 and throughout the day you’ll end up with 4-5 windows… having them all grouped is annoying when I have to hover over a popup to see which window I need.
Googling revealed that win11 wasn’t shipped with that functionality and it was only patched into the operating system in late q3 of last year.
So annoying and a huge productivity hit for me.
Guess no one at Microsoft realized people use computers differently and more options is always better than one. Or they intended to have the option and either forgot to include it or it was buggy. Either way it was #2 on my “how do you disable this” list, and I had to deal with it for a while. I get how grouping can be good for some things, but when you want to be able to bounce between various windows and some happen to use the same app, it was a pain.
That’s why on my kde desktop at home it has a check box that say “allow these windows to be grouped” and I can check / uncheck as needed.
It works so much better. Imho
I hadn’t minded it if it were on the center. As you know, it was actually somewhere around the center, changing its position every time I added an icon or whatever in the taskbar. And they were proud enough to call it a UX revolution. WTAF…
I logged into the Start being in the middle
I’m sorry, what!?
At this rate, I’m definitely going to hold onto 10 until they *pry it away from me.
(Yes, I use Linux as well but gaming isn’t perfect on it, etc…)
if you feel comfortable mucking about in your BIOS, disabling TPM will pretty much guarantee they don’t spring 11 on you. they are really dead set on that requirement for some reason.
IT don’t like it. Lock the taskbar. Lock the taskbar.
I actually thought Microsoft was doing pretty well 2015-2020, then these past few years some of their decisions have felt really anti user
It’s perfect timing too. Right as Linux becomes an extremely strong competitor (feature wise, not market share yet) they decide to enshitify more than they already were and decide to fuck the user. It made me leave about a year ago, and it’s been amazing since.
This is why they are doing it. They fear that Linux/MacOS/ChromeOS is eating their lunch. The problem is that their approach to preventing anyone else from eating their lunch is to make Shit Sandwiches.
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Honestly the steam deck came out at the perfect time
They were doing ok. But the github thing and the 11 thing and the edging and now this - I can’t wait to buy a machine that can run windows virtualised. I need it for my work apps, but this virt thing has been a dream of mine for a long time. Compartmentalization
How do YOU edge?
Microsoft edges me.
Step one: start Chroming. Eventually you get so high (kill enough brain cells) that you chrome with blue paint instead. That is called Edging.
github thing?
Yeah, what happened with GitHub?
They bought it and fed it into copilot. My guess what they mean.
Maybe they’re upset that you need an account to use some of the search features?
Bought github, doing shitty ai crap with it etc, forcing logins
I hated them since Windows 8. Ughh. Was the year of my Linux desktop. I still keep a Win7, WinXP and DOS/Win98 machine around but that’s it for me.
Microsoft, forever and always, will keep trying to pivot Windows to whatever they think the Next Big Thing is going to be, and then fuck it up every time. They tried to pivot to Mobile (Windows Mobile), then Tablets (8, 8.1), then digital assistants (Win 10 Cortana), then 3D (Win 10 Paint3D, 3D Objects folder) and AR (why a bunch of Win10 got the semitransparent glass aesthetic), now AI. Maybe they got ahead of the curve enough to be the “leader” in “AI” this time, but that doesn’t make it a Good Operating System.
I asked it how to uninstall itself. It responded with the command line. I copy and pasted (this was probably dangerous, given that LLMs lie, but whatever). Now I no longer have it on my task bar. This is sort of like the open edge to get Firefox deal I’ve always had when using a fresh install.
There’s a button for it in taskbar settings.
The Taskbar setting just hides it, no? Sounds like the previous commentor uninstalled it completely.
OP didn’t post what code they put in, and they only said it was “gone from my taskbar,” not that they had ensured it was nowhere on their system.
The code easily could have just flicked the button in settings.
We have no idea without the code in question.
Also, even if its fully removed, Microsoft will just re-install it next update anyway? Like they do with everything the fuck else you manually remove?
This is like staying in an abusive relationship and then complaining about how abusive their partner is. Get the fuck out of there. Linux works like a charm. OK, now come at me with your bullshit excuses of “Linux bad” “mah games”, “my Adobe” blah blah blah. Staying in this abusive relationship is what makes microshit what it is.
I want to switch to Linux, but I honestly don’t know how/where to even start or the proper way to even ask.
I asked once on a Linux forum when the whole Cortana debacle happened, and I was called a moron or sent a link to “Linux from scratch”…which was definitely above my technical knowledge at the time. I’ve been scared to post on Linux communities ever since lol
I’m so sorry this happened to you. We do have some assholes on our forums. But from experience, I can assure you that people on Lemmy are much nicer. Also, Linux is now so very easy to install. All you need is to get your ISO and burn it onto a USB stick then boot from that USB from the Bios. Linux even has a “live environment” where you get to try it and see if your hardware works. Don’t worry too much about what “distro” to install for now. They’re all the same except minor differences and how often they get updated. Your only mission is to choose which desktop environment you like. If you like how macos looks like, choose gnome. If you like windows, choose KDE plasma, if you like a windows 7ish look, choose xfce or cinnamon. If you want the easiet way to burn an ISO to a USB, then check out Fedora media writer. It even downloads the iso for you. Just stick your USB into your pc and launch the app and go from there. It does everything for you. It’s available for all OSs. Fedora comes with both KDE and gnome and others. I’d stick with the distros that are the easiest to install and where everything works out of the box. Fedora and Linux mint are the ones I’d choose from. And also, now YouTube is full of amazing Linux channels like this man Jay Lacroix. He is freaking awesome and has so many videos that will help you. Here is his channel. He even made a video the other day on how to dual boot with windows. If you have any questions at all, please post them in the Linux community here on Lemmy and we will all help you.
Thank you for the links! Someone else has also mentioned Mint, and I love the Win7 interface, so that’s probably what I’ll be playing around with.
Of course. Also, try it in a virtual machine or on a spare laptop if you got one, before you commit to it.
From what I found, Lemmy is much better in this regard. I’ve gotten lots of helpful answers here, so give it a go! There is also a ton of tutorials on YouTube, I recommend something like this for beginners.
Thank you, I’ll take a look at the video and at the Lemmy Linux communities!
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Thank you so much for writing this out, I really appreciate it! Looks like I’ll be installing Mint on my old laptop this weekend to see how I fair.
Agree. Just try Mint. It’s a solid choice.
Asking stuff like that is always a good idea, IMO. It could be the difference between a successful Linux install and a very expensive paperweight.
… Don’t ask me how to install it, though. I’ve only tried Ubuntu as a dual-boot, and that was several years ago.
Oh absolutely. Looking back I probably asked in a hardcore Linux enthusiast community (no fault to them, we all get tired of our parents/siblings/coworkers asking us to “fix the wif”)
I just don’t know where the Linux-noob safe spaces are. Is Lemmy’s Linux community one?
I recommend taking a look at this Linux gaming wiki guide about getting started. It is geared towards gaming, but even if that is not your primary focus there is a lot of really useful tips and steps to take for anyone trying to switch to Linux. If you have some other questions you can shoot me a DM, I’m by no means an expert but I’ve been using Linux for around 4 years now so I like to think I’m at least moderately experienced!
We have actual gaming distros. They’re literally put together for gamers. GloriousEggRoll, the dude who made protonGE spun up “Nobara” off of Fedora as a gaming distro. You have Garuda Linux and others.
Thanks for the link, I’ll take a look at the guide over the weekend! Someone already mentioned Linux Mint as a starter, but if I have any questions I’ll definitely take you up on the DM offer!
From what I found, Lemmy is much better in this regard. I’ve gotten lots of helpful answers here, so give it a go! There is also a ton of tutorials on YouTube, I recommend something like this for beginners.
From what I found, Lemmy is much better in this regard. I’ve gotten lots of helpful answers here, so give it a go! There is also a ton of tutorials on YouTube, I recommend something like this for beginners.
It is getting better but there are still alot of things you just can’t do on Linux.
Like for my work we have alot of specialized software that is only for Windows. Sure I might be able to get it working under Linux but what do you think will happen if I need get software Support for this software? They will say i am using an unsupported OS and hang up.
And for my home, there is so many anti cheat software that refuses to work on Linux or potentially get you banned.
Linux has come a very long way in the last 5 years but there is still alot of situations the abusive relationship is your only option.
For work is understandable. I use nothing but windows at work because work requires it. I don’t give a shit if they used a potato, as long as I get my paycheck. At home, though, sorry my friend, I won’t ever understand no matter how many excuses you give me. If a company doesn’t want to support my os then to fucking bad, I won’t give them my money, and will move on to the ones that do.
I won’t ever understand no matter how many excuses you give me. If a company doesn’t want to support my os then to fucking bad, I won’t give them my money.
Sure the is commendable but end of the day it is what is important to you. If my group of friends is playing a game and that game isn’t supported on Linux. That affect me a lot more then it would affect the company.
You do whatever works for you.
Some don’t realize it’s an abusive relationship, because they never saw anything else. Or they are addicted (let’s call it Adobe drug or certain games drug). But these are the minority. Most people simply don’t care.
BTW just for the lolz, in 2010 I predicted that we would 10 years later (in 2020) have probably 30% market share on Linux desktop. Boy I was off.
My relationship with my Linux installation was disfunctional in its own way. It was that partner that went into a meltdown when presented with any new, slightly complicated situation that was outside of its extremely limited comfort zone. I guess that works for people that have the time and patience to hold its hand and convince it that it can actually do everything. But Linux definitely isn’t suitable for all people in all situations.
Distro dependent, and hardware dependent. Some have a great experience OOTB
That is kind of the problem with Linux though. I definitely had hardware-distro compatibility issues, and I get how for some people, trying out a dozen different distros to find the one that works best for them is a lot of fun, and that’s totally valid. It’s just not a good fit for everyone. I think fans of Linux can overestimate its stability, ease of use, and suitability for all use-cases. It’s right for some people, but not everyone.
Yep, to me there are two groups that linux works well for (at home)
- tinkerer type who likes new tech.
- completely computer/ tech illiterate type ( like my wife or mom)
In the 2 category if they just need a computer for netflix, browsing, email and zoom calls you set them up with a stable diatro and it works the same every day with no windows surprises.
Yep, I agree with that breakdown. It’s the people in the middle: tech literate enough to need their computer to do a lot, but not sufficiently interested in tinkering to spend time arguing with their OS, that are often better off using Windows or MacOS.
That’s the correct answer. I run endeavourOS, and it’s even considered a “terminal distro”. Set it up once and never had any major issues after that. I’ve used Debian testing for like 2 years before that, and oh my god, that fucker was solid af. I literally had 0 issues. Like nothing. The thing just worked all the time. Fedora was the same for me.
I had great luck with OpenSUSE Leap on two machines. Another machine was really old and OpenSUSE was a bit slow on it so tried debian, it struggled with all debian based distros I tried. But NixOS has been amazing on it with 0 issues. It really is a dice roll.
Yup. Different distros work differently for different people.
It’s like the BDSM dynamic. Linux is sub, Apple is dom, and Microsoft is like a guy who calls himself dom, but is actually just a dick.
i know you hate to hear this, but you wont get rid of these shenanigans unless you move to linux.
proprietary software devs will always be looking for more ways to monetize you.
For the average user this is like a minor annoyance like once a month. Not worth switching OS’s over.
Yeah, it’s a minor annoyance… another minor annoyance on top of all the others. And another personal data leak (or siphon) to go with all the others.
This on its own is not worth switching OSs for - but as a piece of a larger picture it’s yet another reason to consider it. And for some people this may be what tips the scales in their evaluation.
It’s a boil the frog scenario. Windows users will always cope with more and more shit thrown at them.
And Linux fanboys will get up on their high horses while googling how to fix their driver issues.
This may have been true historically but I’m not sure it still holds up. I switched to Linux Mint as my regular OS a while back and the only driver issue I’ve had was that the installer didnt properly install my wifi card’s proprietary driver (which was working during live boot from usb), so I had to tether to my phone to download the driver through the driver manager. It even installed Nvidia drivers just fine.
It might still be an issue for more barebones or heavily customisable systems but I’m fairly certain nobody’s recommending people switch to Arch for their first Linux experience.
Certainly better than throwing a perfectly working machine because Microsoft won’t support it 🤷♂️
Driver issues usually only happen if the manufacturer doesn’t provide a Linux driver. Usually it is best to do some research to ensure the hardware will work before purchasing. Otherwise, the driver usually is included with the kernel so it is plug and play even for things that require manually downloading and installing on the Windows side.
Also, I’m not trying to get on any high horse. I personally think Linux is a great alternative to Windows and would love for everyone to at least try it out and see if it is right for them. It could save them tons of headaches and open the door to a new skill set, or just to breathe new life into that old laptop in your closet gathering dust. Linux has a lot of great uses that aren’t possible with Windows. Give peas a chance.
Oh, I use both, I was just poking fun. That being said, I unfortunately I don’t feel comfortable trying to get my parents on Linux… or even friends.
Most people just want things to work and won’t do any sort of troubleshooting themselves. “It just works” is worth the intrusiveness that comes with Windows.
There’s been tens of dozens of annoyances over the last decade.
Literally not even boiling the frog at this point, the frog is fried.
Canonical has nothing to do with Arch Linux, so I don’t see what’s the issue.
And I don’t see why Arch is relevant to the discussion. My point is that software being non-proprietary is not a guarantee for preventing fuckery like Microsoft’s. Profit-maximizing companies will maximize their profits, proprietary software or not. Canonical, which sells a non-proprietary Linux distribution, is an example of this.
yeah, ive been meaning to switch, but it doesnt really compare in sheer quantity of little crappy things stacked on top of one another.
i think the main thing though, is that i can switch away from ubuntu and still be on same ol linux. and switching the rare stuff i dont like is as easy as doing it once and never worrying again.
I am on Linux. I just posted about what Windows users are saying.
oh, i reckon most people in this nice little corner of the internet are communist programmer atheists using linux and firefox, and are likely some flavour of queer.
Ya got me on the atheist and firefox thing
Unfortunately windows users don’t have choice.
Normal users can quickly hide it with a taskbar setting, power users (or those who can Google) can disable the feature entirely through a group policy.
Shouldn’t have to, it should be something to enable or better yet install
‘Data Detectors’ in MacOS are just as bad. Just like how sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, sometimes a string of numerals is just a string of numerals.
It is not a phone number or a flight number or a ticket number, it is just a string of text that happen to all be numerals.
I asked Apple Support how to disable data detectors in Preview (MacOS’s native PDF and image viewer) so I could highlight some part numbers without MacOS trying to make a FaceTime call and they told me to use Adobe Acrobat instead! The problem is that Acrobat is worse.
Given the reality that Linux simply isn’t viable for some people (including myself), I highly recommend using this tool.
https://christitus.com/windows-tool/
Between this, and manually uninstalling a lot of bloat (or using a specific type of windows install) and a few other tweaks, windows becomes significantly more usable.
Disabling garbage in the task bar, removing Cortana and indexing services, etc etc, it can also add a fairly decent uplift in performance.
I’m sure there is still telemetry being collected but significantly less and less impact on my user experience and day to day performance.
Oh and make sure you turn off auto/feature updates!
I asked it how to get rid of it.
It decided my aggressive language was not okay and kept ending the “conversation” which only managed to piss me off even more.
If I want to curse at my f$king computer, I’m going to curse at my f$king computer. I paid for the damned thing, and it is a thing, not a person, I can yell at it all I want and not hurt it in any way so this policing of what we can say to it is all the more bizarre to me.
Obedience module not detected, contractual obligations terminated
It’s okay, I’ve already switched to Linux
Why would they block that? I understand that a company might not want the reverse to happen but this just seems counterproductive
It’s literally just the Edge feature transplanted onto windows. I wouldn’t be surprised if they integrated Edge/WebView2 into Explorer just to do this.
3rd times the charm, right?
I’ve been under the impression that it’s been the plan all the time: have a “system-wide” AI assistant.
And honestly, I bet other OSs are going to follow suit (Apple, Linux… Android already kind of has it).
It’s honestly a downgrade from Cortana. Not that I used that either…
Have Windows users ever wanted a single thing they added since XP? It seems like every time I upgrade they add some cluttery nonsense I can’t get rid of. I moved to Windows 10 for software compatibility, and I still hate it.
They added a lot of things since XP that I enjoy, like window management, multiple desktops. I don’t know if they were specifically requested by windows users, but contrary to your opinion they are welcome changes. Users don’t always know what they want.
Eh fair, to me that’s just severely outweighed by the bloatware and needing third party apps to customize the UI how I used to like. It feels uglier and bulkier and like they took away a ton of good functions.
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There was a free version of virtual desktops already available.
To me that proves that the feature was in demand. That’s why it’s included now.
Have Windows users ever wanted a single thing they added since XP?
The new terminal for example is a rather neat improvement over the old command prompt, especially with the integration of Linux systems. Winget also is rather nice. Just two examples. So yeah with all the valid criticism Microsoft deserves for quite a bit of policies, I don’t think your hyperbole holds up.
Yeah, I know I was exaggerating. I’m just constantly pissed at stuff I swore I removed from my PC
I swear Microsoft has had this weird obsession with digital assistants for decades now and users just don’t want it every time.
Their obsession is they see how much people use and like Siri, Google Assistant, and Alexa, and they have employees who have worked at Apple, Google, and Amazon, so they know exactly how much data collection those services do. Their obsession is that They’re behind in the market and would like that sweet sweet money
They all do. Google search is one big primitive Digital Assistant. Apple’s Siri is less functional than its predecessor Voice Control. Amazon’s product recommendation algorithm and Alexa are also successful digital assistants.
Meanwhile the YouTube algorithm, Netflix, and Metas recommendations are notoriously frustrating, pumping out irrelevant recommendations and obfuscating constant that you actually want to consume.
Microsoft haven’t had any effective Digital Assistants to date and must they feel like they are being left behind. Their attempts to emulate successful product from other companies are either unnoticeably irrelevant or laughably bad. Even the terrible content recommendations of Netflix and YouTube keep people hooked.
You get AI tools shoved down your throat everywhere nowadays. Whether you want it and it’s useful or not.
Please don’t call them AI. They are “Language Learning Models” (or “Spicy Autocorrect” if you want to be cheeky).
Copilot is no more “intelligent” than Clippy from Microsoft Bob in 1995. It just appears to be to people who also have low intelligence.
It’s not just text generating AI, like those transformer models, but also image classificators and generators, time series predictors, and a bunch of other stuff you get.
But yes, even though you seem not to like it, it is AI.
Copilot is no more “intelligent” than Clippy from Microsoft Bob in 1995.
I can’t share that experience.
It just appears to be to people who also have low intelligence.
That’s a bit condescending, don’t you think?
The distinction is irrelevant and “AI” is what businesses and normal folks call this stuff. Just like the age old arguments that the media should say something like “cyber criminals” instead of “hackers” or “cloud” is just other people’s computers. LLM, GNU/spicy-auto-correct, whatever. To the populous it’s all “AI”.
https://mastodon.social/@sdw/112203918268779518
Actually Indians.
One of the most minimalistic blog posts I have seen in a while (content wise). It has only 2 sentences, a link and a quote. Some YouTube comments have more content…
