Would be nice if we could start at not demonizing peaceful protests. Nowadays any protest is seen as a massive misguided problem of you so much as block a street.
In fairness, I’ve got too many emergency workers in my family not to draw the line at fully blocking thoroughfares. Can you look an EMT in the eye who has had a patient die while their ambulence couldn’t get through protestors to the hospital and insist you’re in the right? Happens more than you’d want to know. Can’t find statistics, but googling it shows just page upon page of different incidents, and unfortunately most of the time shit like that happens it isn’t published since it’s all HIPAA-complicated to discuss that stuff.
You want to inconvenience someone walking into a Macdonalds? Go ahead. But keep the artery roads clear. It’s not about convenience, it’s about shutting down life-saving infrastructure. Those assholes that cemented themselves to 93N in Boston 5 years back didn’t earn any sympathy from anyone, even their own cause.
To simplify, the only way to get me not to stand beside you in defending your human rights is if you’re recklessly taking away someone else’s.
That’s why I replied. You seemed like you’d be receptive to that side of things.
Protest is complicated. The less you inconvenience people, the less effective it is. The more you inconvenience people, the more harm you can do and the more fence-sitters might find a good reason to challenge you. We shouldn’t NEED protests, but we do.
I think most of the time BLM is a great modern example of doing it right. It shows how much to take the “protesting is wrong” attitude with a grain of salt because so many good peaceful BLM rallies get painted as riots anyway. Yet through all the horseshit, progress.
Just progress with as few deaths as possible, if we can :)
I cannot speak for every protest, but the last time I went to a climate protest blocking a highway, an ambulance needed to pass through. So everyone got up, left the road, let it pass, and then went back to protesting. You can block a road without blocking essential services.
In the BEST of times it creates a severe delay. In many cases, every minute counts. There are life-saving measures where time is of the essence and they cannot be started in an Ambulence.
The most common that comes to mind is a stroke. 5 minutes’ difference can be the difference between 99% recovery and a fate far worse even if the patient survives. They literally treat a stroke with different procedures based upon how long since the onset of symptoms. More obviously relevant with any cardiac arrest event, or certain acute trauma like gunshot wounds.
And your example, where people STILL die from the delay, is the best case.
Look, we both agree the climate is important, but would you sacrifice your mother, or spouse, or child for a protest that isn’t directly going to improve the climate on its own? Blocking the highway does not make the protest help the climate more, but IT DOES END LIVES. Instead, why don’t you block the entrance of an oil power plant?
Honestly, I know why. Because they’ll run you over because they’re the monsters, so you protest at places that won’t. I GET that. But an oil tanker isn’t going to be read their last rites in 5 minutes with the bad news told to their families.
Dang kids should do their climate strike on the weekends!
Not much of a strike then, is it? You want workers to strike in their free time too? That will show 'em!
This. Even “liberals” are out here “PROTEST IS COOL AND ALL BUT DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY JUST MAKES EVERYONE HATE YOUR CAUSE” over a fucking sticker or sign stuck to something.
Would be nice if we could start at not demonizing peaceful protests. Nowadays any protest is seen as a massive misguided problem of you so much as block a street.
But then muh car can’t move! Go defend your human rights somewhere where it doesn’t inconvenience me!
spoiler
/s
In fairness, I’ve got too many emergency workers in my family not to draw the line at fully blocking thoroughfares. Can you look an EMT in the eye who has had a patient die while their ambulence couldn’t get through protestors to the hospital and insist you’re in the right? Happens more than you’d want to know. Can’t find statistics, but googling it shows just page upon page of different incidents, and unfortunately most of the time shit like that happens it isn’t published since it’s all HIPAA-complicated to discuss that stuff.
You want to inconvenience someone walking into a Macdonalds? Go ahead. But keep the artery roads clear. It’s not about convenience, it’s about shutting down life-saving infrastructure. Those assholes that cemented themselves to 93N in Boston 5 years back didn’t earn any sympathy from anyone, even their own cause.
To simplify, the only way to get me not to stand beside you in defending your human rights is if you’re recklessly taking away someone else’s.
Good point. I was thinking more about people just driving in their cars, but I now see that I was a bit ignorant about emergency vehicles.
That’s why I replied. You seemed like you’d be receptive to that side of things.
Protest is complicated. The less you inconvenience people, the less effective it is. The more you inconvenience people, the more harm you can do and the more fence-sitters might find a good reason to challenge you. We shouldn’t NEED protests, but we do.
I think most of the time BLM is a great modern example of doing it right. It shows how much to take the “protesting is wrong” attitude with a grain of salt because so many good peaceful BLM rallies get painted as riots anyway. Yet through all the horseshit, progress.
Just progress with as few deaths as possible, if we can :)
I cannot speak for every protest, but the last time I went to a climate protest blocking a highway, an ambulance needed to pass through. So everyone got up, left the road, let it pass, and then went back to protesting. You can block a road without blocking essential services.
In the BEST of times it creates a severe delay. In many cases, every minute counts. There are life-saving measures where time is of the essence and they cannot be started in an Ambulence.
The most common that comes to mind is a stroke. 5 minutes’ difference can be the difference between 99% recovery and a fate far worse even if the patient survives. They literally treat a stroke with different procedures based upon how long since the onset of symptoms. More obviously relevant with any cardiac arrest event, or certain acute trauma like gunshot wounds.
And your example, where people STILL die from the delay, is the best case.
Look, we both agree the climate is important, but would you sacrifice your mother, or spouse, or child for a protest that isn’t directly going to improve the climate on its own? Blocking the highway does not make the protest help the climate more, but IT DOES END LIVES. Instead, why don’t you block the entrance of an oil power plant?
Honestly, I know why. Because they’ll run you over because they’re the monsters, so you protest at places that won’t. I GET that. But an oil tanker isn’t going to be read their last rites in 5 minutes with the bad news told to their families.
Dang kids should do their climate strike on the weekends!
Not much of a strike then, is it? You want workers to strike in their free time too? That will show 'em!
I like the spoiler XD
spoiler
I really do~
This. Even “liberals” are out here “PROTEST IS COOL AND ALL BUT DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY JUST MAKES EVERYONE HATE YOUR CAUSE” over a fucking sticker or sign stuck to something.
Riots are generally an escalation of peaceful protests, sure there are exceptions.
Usually, riots break out when people get so frustrated at the fact that no progress gets made during protests that they start to lash out.